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Daisuke

Reasonable Character Creation

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So I've been thinks about what to say and how to say it lolz cause this is a lot lolz. Sorry I haven't been responding.

 

First thank you all for all your tips & tricks I really appreciate it honestly.

 

I've notice that most of you talked about building characters at its peak and build them with the potential to grow, I was going the "at their peak" route because it's the character I envision and once I hit that peak and I'm still playing them the powers they have would just be strunger. And I'm fine with that also because whatever lack on that's just their weakness, their no such thing as the perfect character, the GM can always build a character to counter you and then you would be truly tested, sounds like fun to me :)

 

 

 

On 10/16/2019 at 3:20 PM, Tech said:

 

Are you referring to creating your player characters, or creating characters as a GM?

 

If you mean player characters, I'm guessing the GM will handle that.

Bolo has good suggestions if you mean as a GM. Don't be afraid to make them potentially weaker than you anticipated in battle. There are multiple times I've done that and the heroes stomp the bad guy; in those cases I've said, "I expected him to last longer." The players like it because it shows their characters have power, not 'just enough to get the job done'. If you create an enemy that you find it too powerful, nothing prevents you from quietly lowering the PD, ED, Con, whatever of the enemy. The same can be said if you make someone too weak. I think the following is key: finding the balance requires you to know the effectiveness of the heroes, not just the villains. If you know a particular team is powerful, then you have an idea of the enemy strength to create. If a group of heroes isn't powerful, you can go easy on the creation of the villain.

 

I'm referring to Player characters, and my Hero Group that i play with are all new to HERO System 6th Edition.

 

On 10/19/2019 at 1:12 AM, Crusher Bob said:

In theory, character generation guidelines for champions should for trade offs between various stats, not just set campaign maxima for everything.

 

If you are good at character creation, it's usually possible to have the campaign maxima at everything right at the start.  The people who aren't good at character creation usually can't do that, so the whole point of the campaign maxima (to help create sorta balanced characters) has not fulfilled it's purpose.

 

More detailed write up of the 'forced tradeoff' idea can be found here

 

That set of rules also has several other good guidelines for preventing your character from not needing any party members.

 

Examples:

A character should not have all 3 of: mental defense, power defense, sight flash defense

Note: a non-sight based targeting sense should generally be considered as flash defense.

 

These special defenses should also reduce the maxima of your regular defense (PD/ED) so that you aren't making a character that's highly resistant to everything.  Otherwise the attack that does 'normal damage' to you will probably wipe out the other party members.

 

A character should not attack multiple 'special defenses'

Example:

a multipower with:

blast vs PD

blast vs power defense

mental attack (vs mental defense)

 

is 'legal' but generally means that the character can use one of their attack powers to attack any bad guy in a weak defense, unless the bad guy has every defense.  But that means that the other members of your party that can only attack one 'special' defense never get any spotlight time.

 

 

here is a thread I wrote some time ago about character creation.

 

The Character i'm building has PD/ED/Power/Mental Defenses Only, No Flash Defenses; he also has a cuple of powers that's against mental defense but none of them does damage except one (Haven't Built The Power That Does Damage Yet In Case I Scrap That Idea)

 

 

On 10/21/2019 at 8:40 PM, Crusher Bob said:

Hmm, nothing new from Daisuke yet, so I'll put some stuff up about character creation:

 

One of the things to consider when making a character is that a character made to be the (lone) protagonist of an adventure series is considerably different from a character that's made to be part of a group.

 

A lone protagonist has to (sorta) be able to answer ever single problem that crops up in the story.  While a co-protagonist can rely on a team member to do something.  In fact, a co-protagonist almost has to be worse that their team member at whatever their team member shines at, so the focus can easily shift to one of the other co-protagonists when it's their turn in the spotlight.

 

Compare, say, Harry Dresden and Harry Potter.

When a Potter needs a plan, or to find out something, or to brew illegal polyjuice in an unused toilet bowl, Hermione is there to do that.  But when Dresden needs that sort of stuff done, he's really the only one he can rely on, so he has to be able to do all that sort of stuff too.

 

This concept in game design is usually called 'niche protection'.  Where, for example, only the thief can disarm traps, only the cleric can heal people, only the wizard can make all the baddies fall down, and only the fighter is strong enough to carry all the phat lewt the other party members procure.  Well, at least until the wizard gets good enough to cast 'summon donkey' and then the fighter is mostly out of luck...

 

So, if you are making a wizard character to take part in wizard adventures, you should probably be thinking more about Harry Potter, rather than Harry Dresden.  And try not to go full Hermione.  She's an example of a character that doesn't really need to other characters to solve the adventure.  It's only great restraint on her player's part that keeps her from just doing everything while Harry and Ron stand around like the idiots they are.

 

But in a Champions game, where particularly cleverly designed characters can do almost all the 'pillar activities' needed for an adventure, you generally have to talk to the other players during character generation to both make sure that the characters taken as a group can cover everything needed by the average adventure, and that the characters don't step on each others toes so much that some will never be able to be good for anything when the spotlight shines on them.

 

For most superhero games, the pillar activities seem to be:

Beat up baddies

Investigate baddies

Provide soap opera

 

If your superhero game is going to do some additional 'stuff' you need to make sure everyone knows what this stuff is going to be, so that they can take this into account when creating their character.

 

My Character that I'm building is a hyper speed swordsman with cosmic soul abilities, with he's partner who is an electric warfare specialist with the power to electrical & bio components. And their biggest enemy who is a mental manipulater and controller of people with defense that makes annoyingly untouchable.

On 10/26/2019 at 4:00 AM, Crusher Bob said:

Since people have brought up character advancement:

 

1

The ability to blast moar is not necessary for actual character advancement.

 

Consider Han Solo:

 

 

In the A New Hope, to one of the characters in RotJ addressing him as, "General Solo?" and none of the other characters think that the fact that Han is now a general in the rebellion as anything odd.

He's undergone a lot of character 'development', but he hasn't really gotten any better at flying things, or shooting poor fools in the face.  So it's more than possible to have important stuff happen to your character without them getting better at blasting people.  Exalted and Nobilis both made some nods at this sort of thing, but I don't think either one really did it well.

 

------------------------

 

As for the getting better at blasting type of development, one of the other advantages of the 'forced tradeoff' system I I described above is that you can allow characters to advance by allowing characters another 'positive' when making their trade offs.

 

For example:

We define our starting campaign averages as:

DC 10

CV 7

Def 25

SPD 5

 

And one step as:

DC 2

CV 2

Def 5

SPD 1

 

And allow a starting character to have a balance total of +1 from the average.

 

We make our character something like Spiderman, and their stats look like:

DC 10 (Average (0))

CV 9 (High (+1))

Def 20 (Low (-1))

SPD 6 (High (+1))

 

So our character has a balance total of +1.  Later, as the campaign advances, we can spend points to bring our character up to +2 in total.  We decide to up not-Spiderman's Def, so he's not so squishy:

DC 10 (Average (0))

CV 9 (High (+1))

Def 25 (Average (0))

SPD 6 (High (+1))

 

He now has a balance total of +2, and he's theoretically balanced vs a character in the same campaign that went to brick route and now looks like:

 

DC 12 (High (+1))

CV 7 (Average (0))

Def 30 (High (+1))

SPD 5 (Average (0))

 

Who also has a balance total of +2

 

------------------------------

 

There's some problems when you double down on things, like +2 CV, so you are +4 OCV/DCV over the campaign average, but it seems to work better than just upping all the campaign maxima at once and allow players to do whatever.

 

I have an idea about what you mean on this but I'm have difficulties understanding this fully

____________________________________________________________

Daisuke is the character I'm trying to make from a manga I'm trying to build Daisuke Endgame is way to must, build him without thinking about the points, I know I know It's Unrealistic To Build To That Extant. So, I've been trying to trim him down to 1000cp. This is also the first character i've ever built.

 

Daisuke Endgame.pdf Daisuke Endgame 1000.pdf

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It's more conventional for your first character to be built on a few hundred points, rather than a thousand.

 

The more points a character has, the harder it is to balance it. If you want us to provide you with useful feedback, it would be helpful if you could provide us with the campaign's guidelines.

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5 hours ago, assault said:

It's more conventional for your first character to be built on a few hundred points, rather than a thousand.

 

The more points a character has, the harder it is to balance it. If you want us to provide you with useful feedback, it would be helpful if you could provide us with the campaign's guidelines.

 That's the thing, there isn't any

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5 hours ago, Daisuke said:

 That's the thing, there isn't any

Well that's your problem right there!  If you don't have any way to know how much is enough and how much is too much, you'll never be able to find the right numbers.  I'd recommend sitting down with your friends and figuring some guidelines out. 

Your book should have a handful of suggested guidelines, but my experience is that they're way too loose to be useful.  Pinning down some more exact numbers is far more useful. 

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1 hour ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Well that's your problem right there!  If you don't have any way to know how much is enough and how much is too much, you'll never be able to find the right numbers.  I'd recommend sitting down with your friends and figuring some guidelines out. 

Your book should have a handful of suggested guidelines, but my experience is that they're way too loose to be useful.  Pinning down some more exact numbers is far more useful. 

 

Yeah the only thing we know is the we start with 400cp, and the he reviews it to see if any powers are broken

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14 hours ago, Daisuke said:

 That's the thing, there isn't any

 

A hero campaign pretty much requires a bunch of campaign average (or limits), otherwise the system doesn't really work at all.  And it takes some system mastery to understand what to set the limits at.

 

As an example, I see a 15d6+1 Killing attack on the character sheet with a bunch of adders.

 

But:

 

I'm not sure I see any resistant defenses.  You need resistant defenses to defend against the body damage of killing attacks, and you need at least some resistant defenses to resist the stun of killing attacks as well.

 

The 15d6+1 KA (DC 46+) does 53.5 body on average, and something like 294 stun (after the +3 stun mult adder)

If you hit yourself with that (assuming I've missed something and you have 45 resistant def up:

 

You  take around 8 BODY (which, when you have 50 BODY might not be that big a deal, but does require that you look up the long term healing rules).

And you take around 249 STUN.  That blows right through your 150 STUN, and you are at ~-100, which means you are knocked out for quite some time. 

 

Even a 'regular' 46DC EB still does body to your character on average, and doing 161 STUN, deprives you of around 116 STUN, and since that is over your CON, you get stunned and are reduced to half DCV.  And assuming 20 OCV and 20 DCV are the average, they won't miss their follow up attack.  And that 46DC regular attack is much weaker than whatever the adders on that killing attack actually ramp the effective DC up to.

 

And, if 46+ DC attacks are supposed to be the average, 46DC drains, mind control, and whatever else are on the table.  So you need something like 160 mental defense +EGO to even have a hope of resisting that.

 

---------------------

 

 

Plus, doing that math for all this stuff at the table is going to be a severe headache.  If you really want to play heroes that are 'more powerful' it's easier to make everything squishier and leave the heroes with manageable dice totals, instead of keeping all the low end stuff as described in the book.

 

------------------------------

 

Setting campaign averages to:

 

DC 10

CV 7

Def 25

SPD 5

STUN (around 40 or 50)

 

Produces characters that are roughly comparable to Spiderman.  They are about as dangerous as IFVs or attack helicopters.  But can't devastate cities instantly.  High end 'normal' stuff like tanks, jet fighters, artillery, and so on are a threat to them. 

 

If you want to make the characters more powerful vs the world, you can do stuff like cutting all the stats of 'normal stuff' in half.

 

As for why these are good numbers from a system mastery point of view:

DC vs Def: 

The average attack produces 3.5 STUN per DC, so a 10 DC attack does 35 STUN.  The average 25 Def defense means that it'll take 4 hits to bring you to 0 STUN, which will take a while if you are in a one on one mirror battle.  But the moment you go to the various ways 2 on 1 plays out, a fight will go much more quickly.

 

In addition, this means that you don't have to really inflate your stats to handle all possible drains, mind control attacks, and similar. 

 

CV 7

An average CV of 7 means that people who are reduced to 1/2 DCV by things like stunning and presence attacks don't fall completely off the RNG.  1/2 of 7 is 4, the average hero hits a 1/2 DCV opponent on  a 14- (which is something like 90%) but there's still some chance of missing them.  If you go up to something like 12 CV average, that means that there is a 6 CV difference between 1/2 DCV and normal; hitting on 17- is something like 99.5%

 

Speed 5

This allows 'faster' characters with SPD 6 and slower characters (with SPD 4) to exist without totally crushing all opposition or being totally gimped by being slower.  Part of the tactics of hero based around holding actions and acting on certain segments to make fighting people with different SPD more interesting stop working around SPD 7 or 8.  When everyone acts almost every segment, holding actions don't mean anything anymore.

 

---------------------

 

Remember campaign averages have to be set low enough that the system and math work out well for things that are above average as well

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 1:36 AM, Daisuke said:

So I've been thinks about what to say and how to say it lolz cause this is a lot lolz. Sorry I haven't been responding.

 

First thank you all for all your tips & tricks I really appreciate it honestly.

 

I've notice that most of you talked about building characters at its peak and build them with the potential to grow, I was going the "at their peak" route because it's the character I envision and once I hit that peak and I'm still playing them the powers they have would just be strunger. And I'm fine with that also because whatever lack on that's just their weakness, their no such thing as the perfect character, the GM can always build a character to counter you and then you would be truly tested, sounds like fun to me :)

 

 

 

 

I'm referring to Player characters, and my Hero Group that i play with are all new to HERO System 6th Edition.

 

 

The Character i'm building has PD/ED/Power/Mental Defenses Only, No Flash Defenses; he also has a cuple of powers that's against mental defense but none of them does damage except one (Haven't Built The Power That Does Damage Yet In Case I Scrap That Idea)

 

 

 

My Character that I'm building is a hyper speed swordsman with cosmic soul abilities, with he's partner who is an electric warfare specialist with the power to electrical & bio components. And their biggest enemy who is a mental manipulater and controller of people with defense that makes annoyingly untouchable.

 

I have an idea about what you mean on this but I'm have difficulties understanding this fully

____________________________________________________________

Daisuke is the character I'm trying to make from a manga I'm trying to build Daisuke Endgame is way to must, build him without thinking about the points, I know I know It's Unrealistic To Build To That Extant. So, I've been trying to trim him down to 1000cp. This is also the first character i've ever built.

 

Daisuke Endgame.pdf 184.08 kB · 5 downloads Daisuke Endgame 1000.pdf 174.22 kB · 3 downloads

 

 

Ah, I see the problem.

 

First of all, that first character is almost 4000 points.  That's 10 times the number of points you will have to work with.  When you hit that level of points, balance is already out the window.  Numbers just get bigger and bigger, and without any guidelines you don't know what you'll need, or what you'll be facing.  You think that character is powerful, but he's a glass cannon.  He can't take hits from people his own weight class.  What if you run into 100D6 Killing Attack Man?  I can build him on a fraction of the points, and he'll pop you like a balloon.  At the really high levels, there are so many different builds that are available, that you need to have an idea what you'll be facing.  Building characters in a vacuum is hard.

 

Second, from just a quick once over of the 4000 point guy, I think you've got some errors in your build.  That 15D6 HKA requires a full Turn to use, every time you use it.  That's the only primary attack that I saw (of course the writeup is 6 pages long, so maybe there's something else in there).  So that means your 12 Speed is kinda useless.  You're also going to blast through your own Endurance and leave yourself unconscious when you try to use all your powers.  It seems like you've just sort of thrown things together without any regard for how they'll function.  Plus you've got so many different abilities, I don't think you'll remember what all you've got.  I took a glance at the 1000 point character, and all the same problems are there.

 

Limit yourself to just the 400 points that you'll actually have in the game.  Assume that your character will have a limit of 12D6 attacks (normal damage, not killing), that he can have a Speed no higher than 6, and OCV/DCV no higher than 10.  Also assume that you can't use Summon, or have more than a -1 limitation on any particular power.  That's not to say that these will be your campaign limits, but it's safe to assume that you will have limits.  Build the character again, following those rules, and then we'll have a much better idea where you are.  As it is, it's basically "this is an anime character I like, that's really powerful and no one will ever let me play.  How can I make characters who are less powerful?"  For one, start with a character that is actually within your point limits.

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12 hours ago, Crusher Bob said:

you need at least some resistant defenses to resist the stun of killing attacks as well.

Both Normal Defenses and Resistant Defenses defend against Killing Attack STUN damage.  (HSV2 pg. 103) though you might have just mis-typed but just in case. 

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13 hours ago, Crusher Bob said:

You need resistant defenses to defend against the body damage of killing attacks, and you need at least some resistant defenses to resist the stun of killing attacks as well.

 

1 hour ago, GreaterThanOne said:

Both Normal Defenses and Resistant Defenses defend against Killing Attack STUN damage.  (HSV2 pg. 103) though you might have just mis-typed but just in case. 

 

In 5E, you didn't get any defense against the STUN of KA's if you didn't have at least some resistant defense.  That was changed in 6E, as GTO noted.

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That's the thing about the Hero System. It's all about context. 

 

Unless you know the context (e.g. the campaign setting with benchmarks, averages, limits) the stats on the character sheet tell you NOTHING. Is this character weak? strong? average? Overpowered?

 

Without a context, nobody can tell.

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This is hard, I'm one of the main people in who knows more about HERO System 6th Edition, but there's still a lot I don't know. I've never played a hero system game before. I didn't know that they're guidelines to follow/create 

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It is a gap in the rulebooks, it is surprising that in so many pages there was not enough guidance on how to set up a game.  To run a HERO game you can simply pick one of the suggested power levels in the book and allow everything to be in play.  Most long-standing groups have developed an understanding of what they mean (and want) when they start a game because they have had all the discussions - new groups have none of that learning to lean on.

 

I reckon one of the things this new Hall of Champions might usefully have are templates for GM Guides. Something a GM can hand out to a group that contains all of the detail necessary for a player to begin designing a new character for the campaign.

 


Doc

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13 hours ago, Daisuke said:

This is hard, I'm one of the main people in who knows more about HERO System 6th Edition, but there's still a lot I don't know. I've never played a hero system game before. I didn't know that they're guidelines to follow/create 

 

Our group has some basic guidelines we try to follow.  This has proven helpful over the years.  We don't always stick to it though.  Note that these are 5th edition standards, but they should generally apply to 6th as well.

 

--Spend about 10% of your points on skills that can't be used in combat.  Not combat skill levels, not martial arts, not autofire skills, I'm talking about science skills, knowledge skills, mechanics, stuff like that.  Characters shouldn't be sitting around scratching their butts when not in combat.

--The slowest guy in the group should be no more than 3 Speed slower than the fastest guy in the group.  So if the slow guy is a  Speed, the fastest could be a 7.  But don't let some horse's ass of a player screw the rest of the group by not buying it up at all.

--A difference of 3 in OCV/DCV is significant.  If I've got a 10 OCV and the group average is a 7 DCV, then I'm going to hit on a 14-, which is like a 90% chance to hit.  Likewise if I have a 10 DCV and they only have a 7 OCV, they only have about a 20% chance to hit.  This site has probabilites listed:  http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/3_dice_rolls.htm#.Xbn_9VVKiUk .

--A normal character should have enough Defense and Stun so that they can stay conscious through about 3 average hits.

--A normal character should have enough Defense and Con so that they don't get Stunned (damage exceeds their Def+Con and they lose their next phase) by the average attack.

--For superheroic games, characters generally want to have at least one offensive power, at least one defensive power, and at least one movement power.

--For an average game of 350 points (400 in 6th ed), it's fairly normal for the damage limit to be 60 active points (12D6 normal, 4D6 killing).

 

So an anime swordsman character might look something like this:

 

Captain Ninja Sword (350 points, 5th edition)

 

Str 20 (very strong for a normal human)

Dex 26 (much faster than a normal human, not technically "superhuman" yet)

Con 23 (damn tough for a normal person)

Body 13 (you don't actually take much Body in a normal Champions game, so we've only bought it up a little)

Int 13 (he's smarter than average, kinda)

Ego 15 (decently strong-willed, but not a telepath or anything)

Pre 20 (an intimidating guy)

Com 10 (just average looking)

 

PD 15 (at the very limits of human toughness -- guy can smash face first into a tree and not lose any teeth)

ED 15 (same -- a hot frying pan to the face will leave a comedic red mark, but he's probably okay)

Speed 6 (he can fight multiple opponents at once, like Bruce Lee in the movies)

Rec 9 (starting value with his Str and Con)

End 46 (starting value based off his Con -- as a martial artist he won't need much more)

Stun 40 (bought it up a bit, to show resiliency)

 

General physical abilities

--9/9 Combat Luck  (shooting him with a gun will basically never really put him in danger -- note this gives him a total of 24/24 Defense)

--Rapid Healing (even if he takes Body, he'll walk it off in a few hours)

--12" of Running (twice as much as a normal man, without even accounting for his high Speed stat)

--20" of Leaping (120 foot jump)

 

Kickass ninja sword

--3D6-1 HKA (4D6 with Str), 0 Endurance, OAF

 

Martial arts package

+2 OCV with martial arts

Weapon element with sword (note: none of these maneuvers are going to add damage to the sword, only martial strike really makes sense as a sword maneuver anyway)

Martial Strike

Legsweep

Martial Grab

Martial Block

Martial Dodge

 

Acrobatics 14- (kinda combat related)

Breakfall 14- (kinda combat related)

Climbing 14-

Concealment

Conversation

Disguise

Instructor

Interrogation

Persuasion

Paramedics

Stealth

Streetwise

Survival

Tactics (kinda combat related)

Teamwork (kinda combat related)

 

 

Scholar

KS: Ninja stuff 12-

KS: Martial arts world 12-

KS: World history 12-

KS:  Ancient legends 12-

 

 

 

That's 308 points so far.  Your basics are covered.  You've got an 11 OCV with your sword (at 4D6 HKA it's at the top end of a normal starting game), so you'll hit all day long.  Your defense is still pretty good (an average 12D6 attack will do 42 Stun, which means you're taking 18 past defense, not enough to Stun you).  You've got enough skills that you're useful in the right non-combat situations.  You've got 42 points left to spend to give yourself stronger willpower, various ninja tricks like smoke bombs or invisibility, maybe make yourself smarter or branch out into another skill area, or to give your sword some cool magic tricks.  Maybe you can swing the sword and launch an energy beam or something (cutting at range), so you want to turn your sword into a multipower.  Those are all fine.  This should give you a basic idea on what a normal character looks like.

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Here's the link to a character writeup I made for a character with probably a similar feel.

 

Chargen walkthrough.

 

Aspirant was made to be a sorta Spiderman like combatant.  Able to hit hard, able to get out of the way, but thematically a bit squishier than combatants of a similar scale.

 

So her power balance is:

DC 12 (high (+1))

CV 9 (high (+1))

Def 20 (low (-1))

Speed 5 (average (0))

 

So her total power balance is +1, which is in line with all the other characters in the campaign.

 

Things of specific note.

A lot of games give you lots of 'extra powers' when you are really strong.  Examples might include:  tying people up by wrapping lamp posts around them, hitting the ground really hard to cause a shockwave and knock everyone off their feet, simulating Spiderman like clinging by driving your fingers and toes into concrete, and so on.

 

But Hero  doesn't really do that sort of thing.  You are generally allowed to pull off things that are much lower than your thematic power level and related to your special effects, but not written on your character sheet.  But you are generally not allowed to repeat 'power stunts' at your power level over and over again without paying the points for it.

 

So, because I wanted aspirant to have the ability to both do lots of 'being strong' related stuff, and I wanted the ability to easily pick up new 'being strong' tricks, she has a multipower with strength in it.  If she just wants to hit someone, she can use the strength in the multipower to just hit people.  But she can also repeatedly (important word here) throw things like ball bearings at people (blast vs PD), wrap wire, or lamp posts, or steel girders, or whatever around people to tie them up (entangle), and smash through almost anything in her way if given a moment (tunneling).  So there are plenty of combat options other than "I try to hit him again".  And if you come up with a new idea for a brick trick that you want to use, it probably going to only cost you around 3 CP to buy it.

A better build might be to fully sell back her base strength, so she can afford a 60 point pool brick tricks multi-power, so her other abilities match the 12 DC she is allowed to have, but I didn't want to really sell back all of a characteristic in an example character.

 

-------------------------

 

Her movement multipower is the same thing.  Being able to run pretty fast in Hero doesn't really let you do stupid parkour tricks like super running might get you for 'free' in other games.  You need to have paid for at least some of those other abilities. 

 

So, for example, Aspirant can use the 12m no velocity teleport to step onto or off of fast moving things without turning into road pizza.  So she can, for example, hop up onto the windshield of your high speed vehicle without having to worry about the fact that she was standing still and you were going 200km/h down the street.  No velocity teleport is how this is done in the game engine, but to everyone watching, it' 'done' as a superhuman parkour trick.

 

Well... she'd probably need to use clinging too, but since teleport is a fixed multi-power slot, it would probably have to be:

Hold action and wait just before her next action came around.

Use the held action to no velocity teleport onto your high speed vehicle

On her action on the next segment, switch the movement multipower to clinging so she can stick on.

And then proceed to do whatever.

 

Of course, that assumes there is time to do that sort of thing.  So that's more an example of the limits of a movement multi-power than a plus.

 

-----------------------------

 

Let's now look at defenses:

She has 20 Def with 13 being resistant.  That makes her pretty much immune to assault rifles (around 2d6 RKA), so she shouldn't have much trouble for normal people without heavy weapons.  Against a mirror match, she's looking at taking around 22 STUN per attack, but with her stun resistance of 28, she if highly unlikely to be stunned when hit by something like that.

 

-------------------------------

 

The +1 to all PRE skills is more expensive than the 3 points of PRE to just get her +1 to all PRE skills, but I didn't want her to be that imposing just standing there.  In that team, Athenian and Arachne are the ones who's thing is PRE attacks.

 

-----------------------------

 

Also note how the 4 members of the 'A-team' each have things they can do that the other characters can't quite match.

Want to really sneak in somewhere?  Arachne can be invisible and intangible.  Want to put the best face on something?  Athenian has PRE 30, when he smiles, his teeth go "ding!".  Want to know who that chump in a mask is, or what the gangs are going?  Aspirant probably has the answer.  Need to science something?  Aphelion can probably do that.

 

While they are all capable heroes, the team each has something unique to bring to the table.

 

And the game would be pitched something like:

 

A bit like Buffy, but where the characters are:

A Greek Hero version of Ironman, with a suit for every occasion.

Nyaruko-tan

a cynical Spider(wo)man

And a Green Lantern, as played by John Goodman

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17 hours ago, Daisuke said:

This is hard, I'm one of the main people in who knows more about HERO System 6th Edition, but there's still a lot I don't know. I've never played a hero system game before. I didn't know that they're guidelines to follow/create 

 

 

I don't know what book you're using (other than 6th ed), but if you're not using it now, I'd strongly suggest picking up HERO System Basic.  It puts things in much smaller bites, and in so doing, a lot of stuff is actually _easier_ to digest.  Then flip to your bigger books if-- and _only_ if!-- you still aren't clear on something.

 

It will make character creation simpler, too, if only because you aren't so overwhelmed with the monolithic entries for -- well, for pretty much everything-- that the big books offer.

 

Just a thought, but I really believe it will help.

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And since character generation has come up again, are the guidelines and examples I did up in this thread good enough? 

Is there something unclear? 

Is how the characters mechanically operate understandable?

Are the build tech tricks I use explained clearly?

Should I comment more about how campaign assumptions interface with character generation and assumptions?  I did a little bit of that, and implied some things, but didn't really write up much about it.

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On 10/31/2019 at 4:42 AM, Crusher Bob said:

And since character generation has come up again, are the guidelines and examples I did up in this thread good enough? 

Is there something unclear? 

Is how the characters mechanically operate understandable?

Are the build tech tricks I use explained clearly?

Should I comment more about how campaign assumptions interface with character generation and assumptions?  I did a little bit of that, and implied some things, but didn't really write up much about it.

Sorry I haven't looked at before I'm checking it out currently 

 

-------------------------------------------------

I shaved off as much as i could, but now I'm stuck on shaving off the rest is (400cp + 44xp) Currently at 570cp

I also wanted a follower or Summon an Ally be I think there was no where to fit it

I was also thinking about building the hero character like Shazam, but I wanted then "main body" to some of their heroic abilities but less potent 

My Soul Weapon are my main damage dealers

Daisuke Endgame 400.pdf Soul Blade Endgame 400.pdf

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Was looking at the sheet, you have MASSES of movement but I don't see it accounted for in powers etc though I have not studied it in detail.

 

I think you need to scale back the power level a bit.  I think I could save you at least 40 points in skills that you do not really "need" and possibly the same in characteristics.

 

It is difficult to know how far to cut and whether 25 DEX is enough or far too much due to a lack of campaign information.  In my current Golden Age campaign, 20 DEX is the highest and most of the characters are between 13 and 18 DEX.  25 would be massive in my game and possibly a waste of points, especially when you can boost it a further 10 points.

 

Doc

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You have your fingers in too many pies. 

You're trying to be a super-fast ninja and have every imaginable form of super-movement and have multiple self-buff supermodes and have both martial arts and special attack powers and summon magic swords and have super-senses and have a giant pile of skills.  You're not going to afford all that. 

And right now, in trying to do so, you've made a character who can't fight.   He hits for 6d6.  He can't take a 10d6 hit much less a 12d6 hit.  He's got absolutely no place on a 12DC stage.  Because he can't afford combat when he's trying to figure out how to put his ten fingers in a dozen pies. 

 

I'd strongly recommend you wipe the slate clean.  Start by putting him at combat readiness.  Then add one thing, say stealth skills since he's a Ninja.  Check cost.  Add another one thing.  Check cost.  Once you're low on points, stop.  The other things just won't fit. 

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Hard to look at a complicated power build without some description of 'how' things are supposed to work.

 

But some commentary:

 

Multiform is of characters who transform into different 'selves' not make multiple copies of themselves.  Making a copy of yourself is Duplication, or Images, or Summoning, or Followers or something like that, depending on your implementation.

 

Also, multiform is generally for characters who have different mentalities and skill sets.  For example, your your 'base form' character is a surgeon who wants to help all the peoples and your multiform is a werewolf who wants to eat all the peoples (and also can't perform surgery).  If your character keeps the same mind and skillset, (Only in alternate ID (-1/4)) is probably the disadvantage to use.  Though note that there has to be some limitation between switching between IDs for this disadvantage to apply.

 

I'm not exactly sure what the self Aids are supposed to be, and why you would use them over just buying more stats with additional limitations.  In general, power constructs like this are frowned upon because they cause additional book keeping and make it look like you are trying to get those stat points through some power construct that makes them cheaper.

 

A 75 point multipower for movement powers is way overdone.  75 points is larger than most 'normal heroes' main attack abilities (which would be 50 or 60 points, usually).  Tone it down to 40 points or so.

 

Your are not using the linked disad correctly.  Linked applies only when there is some disadvantage to linking the powers together.

 

Example: I can only do X when my fire aura (that sets most things around me on fire) is active

 

So you can't, for example, link your movement multipower to your instant change.  That sounds like Only in Alternate ID, which you already have. 

 

Your low CON and low Def means that you will be stunned almost every time you are hit.  Especially if you have low Def, you need a high CON to prevent being stunned when hit.  Exactly what CON and Def totals are required are in the Stun Avoidance table I did up in the other thread.

 

------------------------------

 

So lets look at build a basic sorta ninja character.  He'll be a bit based on Might Gai, from Naruto.  In his non-heroic form, he's a super human ninja, but below super-hero powerful.  He's able to hulk out and gain lots of boosts to his stats (Only in Hero ID).  To satisfy the requirements of OHID, he has to make several ninja hand signs (and use, I dunno a few full actions) to hulk out.  So if his hands are restrained, or damaged, or something, he can't hulk out.

 

His power balance will be:

DC 10 (average (+0))

CV 9 (high (+1))

Def 20 (low (-1))

SPD 6 (high (+1))

 

High un hulked stats  will be something like

STR 25 (assume +2 DC from martial arts, so expected un-hulked DC is 7)

DEX 18

CON 15 (plus an additional 15-20 CON (Only for stun avoidance (-1/4))

Def 15 (with around 8 resistant defense)

OCV 8 (rem: this is after the changes for whatever martial maneuvers are chose, if any)

DCV 8 (rem: this is after the changes for whatever martial maneuvers are chose, if any)

MDCV 9

 

Then, he'll have a bunch of stats bought with Only in Hero ID (-1/4), and maybe a few other limitations (one recoverable fuel charge? side effects? some cost END? i dunno)

 

And his hulked out stats will be:

STR 40 (assume +2 DC from martial arts, so expected un-hulked DC is 10)

DEX 23?

CON 15? (plus an additional 15-20 CON (Only for stun avoidance (-1/4))

Def 20 (with around 12-15 resistant defense)

OCV 9 (rem: this is after the changes for whatever martial maneuvers are chose, if any)

DCV 9 (rem: this is after the changes for whatever martial maneuvers are chose, if any)

MDCV 9

 

Then, you have maybe a 30 to 40 point pool movement multipower

 

Then, you need to add around 30 points of skills, and then spend you last 30 or so points on making your character able to do something other than move and punch people.

 

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