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Cassandra

Crisis on Infinite Earths

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Leaving the list of who made it and who didn't incomplete gives them options for the future.

 

Although it seems odd how everyone is wrecked about Oliver being gone, but glosses over the infinite trillions that ceased to exist across the multiverse.

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When all is said and done, I'm not sure that I enjoyed this event. It had too many problems for me to overlook. For instance:

  • There were too many scenes where you could tell the writers/producers struggled to give many of the characters something to do (Both Batwoman and Black Lightning come immediately and repeatedly to mind).
  • Smoke wraiths that are defeated with the slightest touch are a waste of CG effects, IMO. All the fights with them lacked any tension or drama whatsoever.
  • Someone forgot to tell the writers that matter and anti-matter annihilate each other, so the idea of the main characters "visiting" the Anti-Monitor's universe (or vice versa) is completely nonsensical. It is just as bad as time travel.
  • Someone forgot to tell the writers that you can't have a place "outside time and space" because without both you have no energy, you have no matter, you have nothing. You have no "place" at all. Nor any living beings to occupy it.
  • Can someone explain to me how Dreamer's powers can form energy blasts or force fields? She enters people's dreams and then interprets them, right? How do you get energy blasts from that?
  • Batwoman's use of her considerably limited supply of bat-shuriken against a horde of smoke wraiths made her look like an idiot. I have a feeling some of the CW writers hate her character.
  • The Speed Force is the most egregious writer's crutch I've ever seen. Anybody who uses it should feel the most profound sense of professional shame.

 

I could go on and on, but I won't. My fingers are getting tired.

 

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1 hour ago, zslane said:

When all is said and done, I'm not sure that I enjoyed this event. It had too many problems for me to overlook. For instance:

  • There were too many scenes where you could tell the writers/producers struggled to give many of the characters something to do (Both Batwoman and Black Lightning come immediately and repeatedly to mind).
  • Smoke wraiths that are defeated with the slightest touch are a waste of CG effects, IMO. All the fights with them lacked any tension or drama whatsoever.
  • Someone forgot to tell the writers that matter and anti-matter annihilate each other, so the idea of the main characters "visiting" the Anti-Monitor's universe (or vice versa) is completely nonsensical. It is just as bad as time travel.
  • Someone forgot to tell the writers that you can't have a place "outside time and space" because without both you have no energy, you have no matter, you have nothing. You have no "place" at all. Nor any living beings to occupy it.
  • Can someone explain to me how Dreamer's powers can form energy blasts or force fields? She enters people's dreams and then interprets them, right? How do you get energy blasts from that?
  • Batwoman's use of her considerably limited supply of bat-shuriken against a horde of smoke wraiths made her look like an idiot. I have a feeling some of the CW writers hate her character.
  • The Speed Force is the most egregious writer's crutch I've ever seen. Anybody who uses it should feel the most profound sense of professional shame.

 

I could go on and on, but I won't. My fingers are getting tired.

 


 

      I think you’re expecting too much. These shows are bubble gum and popcorn. Enjoy them for what they are. What you want is Watchmen.  Looking for consistency and strict logic from a show on the CW is like looking for high drama and real life situations in an issue of Archie comics.

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Part of the problem goes back to some old questions:

Why is there anyone else in the Justice League except Superman and Green Lantern. If some villain can handle them, how does anyone else stand a chance, seriously.

Why is Hawkeye/Wasp/Yellowjacket etc showing up with Thor, Iron Man and Scarlett Witch there.

 

Think if you actually built the JL in champions, then make a villain to face them. I used to have a friend who would try to argue for champions that you could have the various levels of characters and it would work. But my point was, if you built a villain that could absorb (as in, not be 1 punched by) blows from Thor/Superman etc, then the "human" characters (Cap, Hawkeye, Batman, Canary etc.) could not actually hurt them unless you did some strange thing with numbers (low defense, super high con so not stunned and a gajillion Stun/Body). but then it just becomes battles of attrition. Even in the comics, there always seems to be a hiccup in the logic for some of these battles.

 

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5 hours ago, zslane said:
  • Someone forgot to tell the writers that you can't have a place "outside time and space" because without both you have no energy, you have no matter, you have nothing. You have no "place" at all. Nor any living beings to occupy it.

 

The "place outside time and space" is a concept as old as Kabbalah, and a staple not only of comic books, but of "soft" scifi from Star Trek to Doctor Who. It's so ubiquitous that it's in the public consciousness, hence should get a pass.

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Yes. :D

 

Dean Shomshak actually did something mind-bending with that concept in his Champions Universe source book, The Mystic World. He patterned the Multiverse after the Tree of Life from Kabbalah, and its apex, Kether ("the Crown") is just such a place, where everything becomes One with everything else that exists. For a mortal being to ascend to Kether would require a supreme act of will from only the most enlightened and self-aware of persons; but such a being would become God. Since Kether exists outside of Time, to everyone else in the Multiverse that person would always have been God. Moreover, everyone who ever has or ever will reach Kether, is also God. :blink:

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I have only so many This Is So Stupid It Physically Hurts Me passes to give. I ran out long before the paragons arrived in a place that obeys a set of cosmic axioms that would not support life as our universe defines it.

 

Oh, and apparently, this Crisis was so far-reaching that it made Captain America a pop-culture icon in this DC-derived universe. I'm surprised WB got permission to drop that name...

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It sounds like you ought to chill, Z, before you give yourself an aneurysm. ;) You could at least let go of resentment toward comic-book physics -- it's never followed real-world physics. A great deal of what happens in the genre is practically impossible. If you want to enjoy it you need to just accept certain conventions.

 

You'll still find plenty to hate in DC TV shows. :snicker:

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2 hours ago, zslane said:

Oh, and apparently, this Crisis was so far-reaching that it made Captain America a pop-culture icon in this DC-derived universe. I'm surprised WB got permission to drop that name...

 

They've name dropped Spider-Man before too.

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Pffft...been to Kether many times...I use it as an outhouse.  :)

 

Anyway, I just want consistency for my suspension of disbelief.  For example, why do Kryptonians use their superspeed to change their clothes, but then forget about it in a fight?

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13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

A great deal of what happens in the genre is practically impossible.

 

Sure. But I would much rather they use techno-babble with entirely made-up words and phrases than use words that have real meanings and ignore those meanings entirely. For instance, here are some words they probably shouldn't use if they are going to misuse them so horribly: time, space, energy, quantum, genetic/mutation, anti-matter.

 

The CW writers do occasionally resort to using "magic" whenever their junior high science vocabulary fails them or they can't be bothered to invent a custom term for the phenomenon they want to write into the script (e.g., opening a bottle secured with a lock operating "at the quantum level"). With words like "magic", the absurdity of it all is readily apparent, which I find to be at least somewhat more creatively honest.

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I know of three types of time. Quantitative time as studied by science, as well as two types of qualitative time as studied with philosophy. Space, life, matter, substance, essence, existence, quality, quantity, nature, cognition, knowledge, certitude, causality, and much more are studied philosophically. 

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Overall, it could have been better, with much of the potential wasted. Instead of Crisis On Infinite Earths we got “Crisis On Arrowverse Earths with cameos of the Infinite Earths”. 

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Hey, all the Multiverse that fans of the CW DC shows know about is what's been shown in the Arrowverse. Those are the characters they know and presumably care about.

 

In the original Crisis comic series, almost all the characters gathered to oppose the Anti-Monitor were from Earth-1 and Earth-2. Almost all other Earths had been destroyed, which was shown in cameos. Granted, that was still a helluva lot of supers...

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It just would have been nice if a non-Arrowverse character was given a main role ie a paragon* as that would make it feel more authentic as a proper Crisis. *Routh's Superman notwithstanding. 

And did the comics have a set number of paragons? are they the same as in the TV crossover or different? 

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