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Iuz the Evil

Netflix the Witcher

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8 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

To be honest, I very nearly gave up on the game at the very same point (that may be the longest tutorial I've ever played). The game world opens up considerably after the tutorial, and the story only gets good in Velen. And builds from there into one of the coolest narrative RPGs I've played. 

 

But it does take quite a bit to get going, I can see that not being for everyone. And it's a narrative driven game, where choices determine story outcomes. Kind of the opposite of Skyrim's open sandbox in many ways. I like them both though. 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I want to love it. The world is a beauty. I may try again one of these weekends. Try to remember the gameplay (controls, etc.) so that I don't have to do the tutorial again. :)

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I think Henry Cavill is turning out to be one of my favorite stars. In a recent interview, he dismissed the interviewer's characterization of fans as being toxic. He instead pointed out how fans can be very passionate about the subject material. I don't have a link to the actual interview, but I saw several videos on YouTube refer back to it. I just think it is pretty cool that somebody in Hollywood has taken a moment to realize that fans are going to have opinions about the things they love.

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15 minutes ago, Nolgroth said:

I think Henry Cavill is turning out to be one of my favorite stars. In a recent interview, he dismissed the interviewer's characterization of fans as being toxic. He instead pointed out how fans can be very passionate about the subject material. I don't have a link to the actual interview, but I saw several videos on YouTube refer back to it. I just think it is pretty cool that somebody in Hollywood has taken a moment to realize that fans are going to have opinions about the things they love.

 

I heard about that! And thank goodness.

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I can't believe some people bailed on the Witcher 3 game during the tutorial phase.

 

Yes, it's long and a bit tedious, but the game world explodes open after that and it is HUGE and there are a thousand places to go and things to do after that.

 

Just one of the very best games to have ever been made.

 

The juice is worth the squeeze as they say.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

I can't believe some people bailed on the Witcher 3 game during the tutorial phase.

 

Yes, it's long and a bit tedious, but the game world explodes open after that and it is HUGE and there are a thousand places to go and things to do after that.

 

Just one of the very best games to have ever been made.

 

The juice is worth the squeeze as they say.

 

 

 

I completed the tutorial phase. I just found the experience boring and tedious, and decided to play something that I actually liked rather than go through more of it.

 

Of course, that should in no way influence your enjoyment of the game, as different folks have different likes.

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51 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

 

I completed the tutorial phase. I just found the experience boring and tedious, and decided to play something that I actually liked rather than go through more of it.

 

Of course, that should in no way influence your enjoyment of the game, as different folks have different likes.

 

Obviously, it has no impact on my enjoyment of the game, but I wonder if you had put another hour into it if you wouldn't have then found the game to be enjoyable and found - like most did - that the game was one of the very best ever made.

 

Even on Metacritic the game has a 9.2 user approval rating.  It's pretty phenomenal.

 

Sure, it won't be for everyone, and maybe you would have never liked it, but with so little time in - I feel (and I could be completely wrong) like you missed out on a real gem of a game.

 

I liken it to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time where the prologue on the 1st book was SO BAD that I only read it while on the can and I nearly threw the book away.  Only to find it quickly progressed to tolerable, to good, to amazing and I ended up reading all 13+ books.

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1 hour ago, ScottishFox said:

 

Obviously, it has no impact on my enjoyment of the game, but I wonder if you had put another hour into it if you wouldn't have then found the game to be enjoyable and found - like most did - that the game was one of the very best ever made.

 

Even on Metacritic the game has a 9.2 user approval rating.  It's pretty phenomenal.

 

Sure, it won't be for everyone, and maybe you would have never liked it, but with so little time in - I feel (and I could be completely wrong) like you missed out on a real gem of a game.

 

I liken it to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time where the prologue on the 1st book was SO BAD that I only read it while on the can and I nearly threw the book away.  Only to find it quickly progressed to tolerable, to good, to amazing and I ended up reading all 13+ books.

 

I tried reading the first 50 pages of Wheel of Time about three or four times, until I brought it with me on a road trip. It got better, until he started spinning his wheels in later books. I gave up on the series somewhere around book 5 or so. 

 

As for Witcher 3, at this point, I'd need to do the tutorial again to remember how to play, so that's not going to happen any time soon.

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5 hours ago, Nolgroth said:

I think Henry Cavill is turning out to be one of my favorite stars. In a recent interview, he dismissed the interviewer's characterization of fans as being toxic. He instead pointed out how fans can be very passionate about the subject material. I don't have a link to the actual interview, but I saw several videos on YouTube refer back to it. I just think it is pretty cool that somebody in Hollywood has taken a moment to realize that fans are going to have opinions about the things they love.

 

Disagreeing with the idea that a great deal of fan behavior is toxic is certainly warranted...dismissing it though...i can't agree with.  It's definitely a problem.  A lot of passion that is taken in the wrong direction too often.

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I've decided sometime in the last decade or so that I don't actually need critics to review material to let me know if I should like it. Mostly, their reviews completely miss the point and they don't take the time to even attempt cursory understanding of the source material for my preferred entertainment material. 

 

I'm not really interested in their political analysis, dismissal of entire genres they don't enjoy, or hostility to audiences who don't agree with them. They're welcome to their opinions, mostly they are wrong based on economic outcomes and audience enjoyment. 

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6 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

Disagreeing with the idea that a great deal of fan behavior is toxic is certainly warranted...dismissing it though...i can't agree with.  It's definitely a problem.  A lot of passion that is taken in the wrong direction too often.

 

Yeah, that happens. I just believe the label of "toxic" is applied way too often though and now seems to be the default excuse for a poorly constructed product's inevitable failure. I imagine it is a very subjective bar though.

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6 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

I've decided sometime in the last decade or so that I don't actually need critics to review material to let me know if I should like it.

 

My general rule of thumb is to go opposite of the critical bought review of most recognized media outlets. I read the user score and watch a few YouTube creators take on the matter. 

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7 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

Disagreeing with the idea that a great deal of fan behavior is toxic is certainly warranted...dismissing it though...i can't agree with.  It's definitely a problem.  A lot of passion that is taken in the wrong direction too often.

 

25 minutes ago, Nolgroth said:

 

Yeah, that happens. I just believe the label of "toxic" is applied way too often though and now seems to be the default excuse for a poorly constructed product's inevitable failure. I imagine it is a very subjective bar though.

Two words: Rose Tico. The way the character and the actress who played her were treated on the Net is shameful. I can get not liking the character -- but sending death threats to the actress and thinking of it as a joke is beyond the pale. And they must have thought they were "listening to fan input" when they practically wrote her out of the movie.

 

Focus Groups don't make good art. Neither do Reddit threads.

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11 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

 

Two words: Rose Tico. The way the character and the actress who played her were treated on the Net is shameful. I can get not liking the character -- but sending death threats to the actress and thinking of it as a joke is beyond the pale. And they must have thought they were "listening to fan input" when they practically wrote her out of the movie.

 

I will absolutely, and without any reservation, agree with you that Kellie Marie Tran was the victim of toxic fans and the actress deserves much much more. It's not her fault that the character was poorly handled by the directors and screen writers involved. I'm sure that we can cherry pick a few more out too. Probably ones I'm not even aware of. Not every failed movie attempt is due to fan toxicity. Sometimes a movie just sucks. The alchemy that makes a movie successful just wasn't there. Sometimes those movies go on to be cult classics and sometimes they get MST3k'ed. Some are best forgotten.  Blaming "toxic fans" has become just another weary excuse for failure.

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I'm not sure what the horrible storyline and dialogue she was given has to do with the disgusting treatment she received afterwards.  Many actors have been handed awful parts to play.  None of them had to deal with what she did.  All thanks to the extreme reactions of 'toxic fan culture'.  IMO, that's not making an excuse for failure.

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I know what Nogroth is talking about. One example, IIRC-The Ghostbusters 2016 reboot trailer got a lot of flack on youtube comments.  Some where embarrassing examples of sexism "Girls? Really" "SJWs are the worst" stuff, but 90% of the  complaints were about how a reboot wasn't needed, the fact the trailer looked awful, the CGI seemed sub par... and other complaints that had nothing to do with the team being all women. Sony went in, and deleted that 90% and left the Sexist comments behind so it looked like ALL downvotes were because of sexism. It was spun as 'If you dont' go to see this movie, if you see it and don't like it- you're toxic fandom'

 

Star Wars fans who blasted the Last Jedi yet didn't take part in the abominable treatment of Tran (And it was horrible and I maybe one of the only folks I know who LIKES the character of Rose minus the rushed romance plot) still got lumped in with those that did by the director.

 

 

Toxic fans exist...

but the label is sometimes used against those that don't deserve it as a PR trick.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Starlord said:

I'm not sure what the horrible storyline and dialogue she was given has to do with the disgusting treatment she received afterwards.  Many actors have been handed awful parts to play.  None of them had to deal with what she did.  All thanks to the extreme reactions of 'toxic fan culture'.  IMO, that's not making an excuse for failure.

 

I explicitly agreed that Kellie Marie Tran was the subject of abuse by toxic fans. I have admitted that such a thing does happen. My only contention is that it has become and easy out to blame fans for being toxic when the product itself was sub-par. Were you not reading or just looking for an excuse to take my comment out of context? 

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12 hours ago, Nolgroth said:

 

I explicitly agreed that Kellie Marie Tran was the subject of abuse by toxic fans. I have admitted that such a thing does happen. My only contention is that it has become and easy out to blame fans for being toxic when the product itself was sub-par. Were you not reading or just looking for an excuse to take my comment out of context? 

 

The original context came from an interview with Cahill from yourself that had nothing to do with 'poor showings twisted into a PR trick'.  I feel that is a minor issue and, as it is a lie told by executives, has nothing to do with the actual problem of fan toxicity and cyber-bullying.  No offense, but IMO bringing it up is sidestepping the actual issue and I was merely trying to push the discussion back in the other direction.  I sincerely apologize if I offended and/or mischaracterized you.

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5 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

The original context came from an interview with Cahill from yourself that had nothing to do with 'poor showings twisted into a PR trick'.  I feel that is a minor issue and, as it is a lie told by executives, has nothing to do with the actual problem of fan toxicity and cyber-bullying.  No offense, but IMO bringing it up is sidestepping the actual issue and I was merely trying to push the discussion back in the other direction.  I sincerely apologize if I offended and/or mischaracterized you.

 

Maybe I missed something but I think I was the one who said it was a" PR trick" used by some studios etc. But no offense taken on my part. :) I disagree that it has nothing to do with the actual problem of fan toxicity or cyberbullying, as it can have a dangerous "boy cries wolf effect' that makes it much harder for victims of the real incidents. Calling out sexism as toxic is fine because, well, bigotry against people is toxic, but deciding to deride what would otherwise be mere disapproval of quality or adherence to canon as 'toxic'  is at kindest, hyperbole, and at worst,vilification. Looking back at the interview, it seemed to me like the interviewer was complaining about fans of superhero movies being too picky and labeling it as toxic. Cavill explained that he just saw that as passionate for they truly loved the characters etc. I think he's right not to assume toxcity is the norm for even passionate fandoms.

 

But, of course, as a fan of superheroes myself I might be biased ;)

 

 

 

 

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On 12/31/2019 at 9:07 AM, Nolgroth said:

I think Henry Cavill is turning out to be one of my favorite stars. In a recent interview, he dismissed the interviewer's characterization of fans as being toxic. He instead pointed out how fans can be very passionate about the subject material. I don't have a link to the actual interview, but I saw several videos on YouTube refer back to it. I just think it is pretty cool that somebody in Hollywood has taken a moment to realize that fans are going to have opinions about the things they love.

I'm sure it helps immensely that Henry is a gamer from way back, so he's participated in fandom from the inside out rather than being blindsided by it upon achieving fame. He apparently campaigned hard for this role as soon as he heard about the project because he was, himself, passionate about the Witcher videogames.

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Finally got through the first season.  Having had zero exposure to the games or books prior to this I had no idea what to expect.  I certainly was not expecting such a high magic campaign setting, nor so much time skipping.  Still, I am impressed by the degree of character development that was crammed into just eight episodes. 

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