bloomann Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 hi, where's the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Podunk Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hrm You know, I don't know where it went. Let me repost. What I had inquired about was that I was wondering if you could point me to any resources for a weapon stats for a modern campaign. I have an old book but the arms listed are fairly out of date. If I could find a resource that was more current and comprehensive, it would be great. Any input you all might have would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 At present, I only know of four game supplements that deal with modern firearms: GURPS High-Tech, GURPS Modern Firepower, Palladium's Compendium of Modern Weapons, and a similar book published by R. Talsorian Games (I can't remember what the title of it is, but I think that a d20 version was recently released). There are also a couple of websites on the GURPS WebRing dealing with modern weapons, especially weapons that haven't been covered in already-existing material, but the material within is unofficial. Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 The R. Talsorian Games one is... The Compendium of Modern Firearms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 What you want is 3G^3 (Guns Guns Guns) from the folks at Blacksburg Tactical Research Center. http://www.btrc.net/html/catalog.html#3G3 From their catalog listing: "3G3 is technically sophisticated weapon design supplement for virtually any role-playing game. You can design weapons of any type at any Tech Level where they are possible(not just historically available), and then convert that design to the role-playing game you prefer most" Hero is one of the many systems covered. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Podunk Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Thanks for the responses. Some of my players are firearm enthusiasts and it's nice to have stats available for the equipment they are scrabbling around after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I'm afraid the most extensive HERO system gun listings I know of are in Dark Champions and its supplement, An Eye For An Eye. They are a good decade out of date, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Danger International also had a good list of modern day weapons. I can't remember if its 3rd or 4th edition though Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Of course I seem to remember that back in the day the Dark Champions and Eye for an Eye gun lists were criticised for being really underpowered, even in a heroic setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Jhamin Of course I seem to remember that back in the day the Dark Champions and Eye for an Eye gun lists were criticised for being really underpowered, even in a heroic setting. Interesting. That's one I never heard before. For my money, once you get into the rocket launchers, vehicle HMGs and artillery, you start getting decidedly overpowered. Some of those criticisms probably came from people who want "instant kill" guns; I've always found the Hit Location rules provide adequately for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevenall Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Blue The R. Talsorian Games one is... The Compendium of Modern Firearms This is a pretty good book, and it has a HS conversion in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Podunk Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 DI I'm using the Danger International primarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thag13 Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 My favorite book is the old ARMORY book that came out about 15-20 years ago. Great for its time, but of course out of date now. The old TOP secret rules and a good write up of weapons write ups, and are tranlateable into Hero stats. Still, The R. Talsorian Games The Compendium of Modern Firearms , is the best one I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Although it's been out of print for years now, there is one other game resource for modern weapons and their stats: Phoenix Command. This game system was produced by Leading Edge Games, and had sourcebooks for modern heavy weapons, Old West firearms, and sci-fi weapons (mostly for the Living Steel game setting). Alternatively, you could try to find a copy of Millenium's End. I'd imagine that, given the slant of that particular system, you'd have no problems finding suitable hardware to convert over to FREd. Space Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I believe the firearms stats in FREd were powered down some from 4th edition; I also believe that the ones in 4th were the same as the ones in Danger International. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhereg Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 I think Dark Champions is your best bet for stats. Whatever you can't find has a close match you can clone, or you can extrapolate from the calibre of a near match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Originally posted by archer I believe the firearms stats in FREd were powered down some from 4th edition; I also believe that the ones in 4th were the same as the ones in Danger International. Actually 5th powered up some of the weapons. Personally I've found the weapons to be just about right, guns are not something to take lightly but most PC's can take a hit or two without dying so you don't wind up with a Chargen session everytime you have a gun battle. Some of the heavy weapons could use a little boost but nothing too serious (+1 or 2 DC in a few cases). As previously mentioned the old DC has a pretty good list of weapons but going down to the local 7/11 and picking up one of the many gun annuals (most include a good size catalog of guns) that come out this time of year and then comparing with the existing weapons should be a fairly easy conversion. Your level of knowledge about guns doesn't really matter since you what you don't know shouldn't bother you (it seems like the more you know the pickier (obsessive ) you get). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 I agree with you completely about the greater your knowledge the greater your pickiness. I resemble that remark. I think either "{The Armory" or DI had my favorite write up on the .50 BMG iirc 3d6Killing, +7 stun mod, .... Actually I think that was "the Armory", IIRC DI was 3d6 +3 stun mod. Originally posted by Toadmaster Actually 5th powered up some of the weapons. Personally I've found the weapons to be just about right, guns are not something to take lightly but most PC's can take a hit or two without dying so you don't wind up with a Chargen session everytime you have a gun battle. Some of the heavy weapons could use a little boost but nothing too serious (+1 or 2 DC in a few cases). As previously mentioned the old DC has a pretty good list of weapons but going down to the local 7/11 and picking up one of the many gun annuals (most include a good size catalog of guns) that come out this time of year and then comparing with the existing weapons should be a fairly easy conversion. Your level of knowledge about guns doesn't really matter since you what you don't know shouldn't bother you (it seems like the more you know the pickier (obsessive ) you get). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 I've gone up and down the "complexity" scale, at one time I was actually using Phoenix Command for a Post apacalypse RPG and it was fun but at some point I realized it was becoming all about the guns (nothing wrong with that is there? ) but I've relaxed a bit and currently I really like the level HERO has, particularly the body / stun which allows good penetrating attacks that may lack some of the knockdown (9mm) or the big slug knock your target down + STUN but doesn't penetrate armor so good (.45). Its not the most accurate or complex but it is a nice compromise between playability and "realism" which also allows variation between fairly similar guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resartus Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 How about the P90? Has anyone taken a stab at producing stats for the FN Herstal P90? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Re: How about the P90? Originally posted by Resartus Has anyone taken a stab at producing stats for the FN Herstal P90? From the Stargate [Hero] material Hunter and I (mostly Hunter) are working on: P90 (5.7x28mm): (Total: 75 Active Cost, 21 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2), 4 clips of 50 Charges (+3/4), Autofire (10 shots; +1) (65 Active Points); STR Minimum 12 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Range (200m effective range) (-1/4) (Real Cost: 17) plus Sights (optical and/or laser): +2 OCV (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) We're currently debating adding AP or Penetrating based on comments on the show and the details about the P90's ammo (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm). Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirViss Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 It probably shoudn have AP. From the little that i read, the P90 was specifically designed to be used against armored personnel. This is IMHO, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SirViss It probably shoudn have AP. From the little that i read, the P90 was specifically designed to be used against armored personnel. This is IMHO, of course... I agree it should have something, just not sure what. From FNH USA's web site: "The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. This design virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration. This also creates a large wound cavity and quick incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90" Don't know if that should be AP or Pen. I feel Pen, Hunter thinks AP... Other opinions? Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Aroooo Don't know if that should be AP or Pen. I feel Pen, Hunter thinks AP... Other opinions? Armour Piercing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resartus Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Re: Re: How about the P90? Originally posted by Aroooo From the Stargate [Hero] material Hunter and I (mostly Hunter) are working on: P90 (5.7x28mm): (Total: 75 Active Cost, 21 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2), 4 clips of 50 Charges (+3/4), Autofire (10 shots; +1) (65 Active Points); STR Minimum 12 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Range (200m effective range) (-1/4) (Real Cost: 17) plus Sights (optical and/or laser): +2 OCV (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) We're currently debating adding AP or Penetrating based on comments on the show and the details about the P90's ammo (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm). Aroooo I've played a lot of other systems over the years but I'm fairly new to Hero, some of the folks in my gaming group are very into the hardware their characters use in their games, so I'm trying to learn how to convert things we've used before into Hero as accurately and with as much detail as I can. I like the write-up but it seems a little underpowered in a couple of ways. I was thinking the damage would be closer to a rifle given that the SS190 is basically a cut-down rifle round. Something like 2d6 or 2d6-1. Shouldn't the Autofire be a little higher? The P90 has a cyclic rate of 900 rounds per minute giving it 15 rounds a second, I thought that should translate to an Autofire (15 shots; +11/2). If Autofire doesn't work that way please let me know, I'm still trying to get a feel for this. And yes I know that the +11/2 version of the modifier would actually allow an autofire with 20 shots but I wanted to cap it at the actual cyclic rate. The Strength minimum seems a little high, the SS190 round has significantly less recoil than a 9mm round and the P90 is supposed to be easier to control than a H&K MP5 even with it's relatively light weight (3Kg). What factors lead you to use a minimum of 12? I was thinking that 10 or 11 would be more appropriate. The P90 is designed to be used two-handed but it can be shot one-handed in a pinch. Does this allow you to use the Two-Handed limitation? I'm leaning towards giving the P90 an AP attack. The only other game related material I have on it says that the round is considered a semi-armor piercing round. It's basically good against soft armors like kevlar but not necessarily very good at penetrating harder armors like a titanium-ceramic insert. In any case, thank you for the write-up, I'm looking forward to any additional feedback on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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