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Batman (2021)


Cassandra

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Movie superhero suits cannot look like the comics. Because film and video display more detail than most comic art (because deadlines). Therefore  you get multi layered spandex with texturing, and overlapping plates. This is because the suit has to look visually interesting at unflattering angles during stunts, as well as closeups. Marvel currently is the best at it, picking visually contrasting materials and intricate details, though at the extreme end was Ironman, where the suit was totally CGI. A good friend animated the suit by hand without mocap data for the scene where a champagne drunk Tony Stark embarrasses Pepper at a public function. The suit was based on the designs by Adi Granov, which honestly cannot be worn by humans. But Marvel has the money to pay for the CGI. On the other end of the spectrum was the Shazam movie, where the suit was merely adequate, but looked like a padded muscle suit under microscopically tailored, matte finished or flocked spandex.  Simple spandex Suits in solid colors just end up looking like cheap jazzercise costumes, and don't reflect well on the budget or the actor wearing them. 

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Batman puts himself in situations similar to SWAT teams. Effectively he is a one-person-SWAT team. Some form of body armour is just a necessity & realistic. 

 

And the the difference between Iron Man & Batman is that the he later has individual gadgets while the former has one gadget — his suit.  

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3 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Movie superhero suits cannot look like the comics.

 

I submit the following in evidence to the contrary:

 

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3 hours ago, Bazza said:

Some form of body armour is just a necessity & realistic. 

 

The "realism" argument fails to sway me whenever we are talking about superheroes. Iron Fist is known for taking down gunmen in skintight spandex. This sort of unreality is intrinsic to the genre.

 

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5 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

It took me three times to watch the video. I don’t mind the suit. The Bat logo was fine.

 

I don't mind the suit either.  Not 100% onboard with the logo . . . especially if it does turn into a batarang.....

 

No sure how Pattinson is going to do as Batman though.

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On 2/14/2020 at 6:14 PM, Bazza said:

Iron Fist is not Batman. Danny Rand can get away with it, Bruce Wayne can’t. 

 

I would argue that in a broader sense, the two characters are equivalent: hand-to-hand specialists without any super powers. Taking down armed thugs is what they do, and without much difficulty I might add. The only meaningful difference is one of aesthetics/style. And let's not forget that Batman in the comics is a highly trained martial artist; you lose the elegant fluidity of movement he normally given if you put him in body armor (just look how awkward and stiff every actor who's ever been put into these modern Bat costumes has looked).

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Iron Fist has a very limited set of super powers though.  They're not all that equivalent.

 

Batman relies heavily on his gadgets, vehicles and resources (henchman or two at the bat cave and a dedicated gadget resource team).

Daniel Rand, like most martial arts fantasy tropes, looks within to find what he needs to succeed.

Batman has weapons.  Daniel Rand *is* the weapon.

 

Additionally, the upgraded variations of Iron Fist have him able to use his Iron Fist ability repeatedly or even constantly for short periods allowing him to obliterate vehicles and conventional structures while One Punch Man-ing henchmen and blocking bullets with his knuckles.

 

 

 

 

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Sure, but Iron Fist still relies primarily on his fighting skill to avoid getting hit, just like Batman. Making Batman rely on body armor to mitigate damage, rather than avoiding it with his fighting skill like Iron Fist does, is a contemporary re-imagining of the character that is as conceptually misguided, IMO, as would be putting Black Widow into Iron Man's armor as her standard mission load-out.

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On 2/14/2020 at 1:30 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

 Simple spandex Suits in solid colors just end up looking like cheap jazzercise costumes, and don't reflect well on the budget or the actor wearing them.

 

Aaaaaand . . . there's a HUGE middle ground between this and armoring up characters who don't wear armor.

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8 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Who says Batman doesn’t wear armor?  Also comics and films and their respective audiences are different animals. 

 

I just did. I typed it right up there. As far as movie audiences go . . . what does that have to do with idiots armoring up an acrobatic fighter who's been shown for decades to avoid gunfire rather than tank it have to do with whether it's in character? It's not. It's fine as an alternative interpretation of the character, but it's just not the same character. Of course, by falling back on to the "normal audiences wouldn't understand Batman not wearing armor" argument, you've ceded the "it's impossible to do comic book costumes right on screen" argument. So, that's progress. :D

 

And, as I said earlier, why not do a costume the actor can actually move in, and be flexible, with a little added texture for the camera, and still say it's lightly armored? Sheesh, it's comic book tech anyway. No need for thick armor plates. Black Panther's costume is a good example on film.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Greywind said:

From the scene in the book I was referring to.

 

I can't remember what he was doing in that particular scene, but at the least, the entire costume doesn't look like plate armor. I also remember him having the conversation about the bright colored bat logo on the dark suit, because it made a target for the bad guys that was armored. Not sure it was DKR or another title. (As an aside, that argument assumes thugs can hit that small of a target when it's moving around trying to pummel them . . . so maybe it's just for guys like Deadshot.)

 

I generally don't have a problem with Batman wearing armor. He does wear armor in the comics. But he only tends to wear armor that has a bulky appearance for a specific purpose. He typically wears something that's flexible.

 

Speaking of movie Batsuits, and DKR . . . I think Batflek's Dark Knight-inspired suit in Batman vs. Superman and Justice League is my favorite movie suit so far. It splits the difference between mobility and light armor, is thicker material without being bulky or plated, stops handgun rounds but not knives, which is consistent with being some kind of higher-tech bullet resistant fiber, and has some texture to look good on camera. Story-wise, having some armor but not too bulky is consistent with a Batman who's starting to feel his age and all of his past battles.

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14 hours ago, Greywind said:

Batman wearing armor goes back at least as far as The Dark Knight Returns.

 

I don't think an Elseworlds-type graphic novel designed very specifically to tear down and deconstruct the mythology of Batman and Superman serves as a valid reflection of Batman's essential character design elements. And all the subsequent "gritty and realistic" stories that have used The Dark Knight Returns as an inspiration are similarly compromised by their creative association with it.

 

But you know, at least Frank Miller had enough sense to limit Batman's "armor" to one small plate behind the chest logo (the anti-Superman exoskeleton suit notwithstanding, which had but one purpose in the book and only lasted for one scene), and even then it was so well hidden that you couldn't tell he had any armor anywhere. The aesthetic was still All Spandex All the Time.

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