Problems with NND advantage with Gas attacks etc.

[Mimer]

Howdy!

 

I'm currently building Sentinels for my Marvel 1980s game, see this thread:

https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/99366-marvel-sentinels-for-champions-the-mutant-hunting-robot-kind/

 

This of course includes a number a Gat Jet attacks to neutralize and capture pesky mutants, modelled on the NND attacks presented in the 6th Edition Character Creation (6E1) and the Champions powers book

 

However, there seems to be something off in how the NND Advantage is valued or applied, or I’m missing or misunderstanding how the Advantage is applied.

 

6E1, page 196:

"Stun Gas Grenades:
Drain STUN 3d6,
NND (defense is Life
Support [No Need To
Breathe]; +0), Area Of
Effect (9m Radius; +¾)
(52 Active Points);
OA F (-1), 4 Charges (-1).
Total cost: 17 points." 

 

Here the "No need to breathe" (at all?) NND is a +0 Advantage.

 

6E1, page 326:

"Knockout Gas
Grenades: Blast
6d6, Area Of Effect
(12m Radius; +¾),
NND (defense is Life
Support [Self-Contained
Breathing] or holding
one’s breath; +1)
(82 Active Points);
OA F (-1), 4 Charges (-1).
Total cost: 27 points."

 

Here the same basic condition applies, but arguably to a somewhat lesser degree, since it could be interpreted as that the Stun grenades ignore "Holding one's breath", but the Knockout Gas doesn't

 

Champions Powers, page 18:

“Suffocation I

Blast 4d6, No Normal
Defense (defense is Life Support [Self-Contained
Breathing]; +1), Constant (+½). Total cost:
50 points.”

 

This power is basically the same as the Stun grenades when it comes to the NND part, but it's rated as a +1 Advantage.

 

Is this just an error, an inconsistency or am I missing something? Which advantage seems most applicable or reasonable to you guys?

 

 

[massey]

The first version uses the power Drain as its base.  Drain goes against the rare defense "Power Defense".  PD and ED (which everybody has at least a little bit of) do not stop Drain.  As a result, an NND advantage simply changes the attack from going against one rare defense to another.  Therefore, it's a +0 advantage.

 

Blast, on the other hand, attacks the most common set of defenses.  PD and ED.  So to change it from a defense that everybody has, to one that almost nobody has, requires a +1 advantage.

[Mimer]

10 minutes ago, massey said:

The first version uses the power Drain as its base.  Drain goes against the rare defense "Power Defense".  PD and ED (which everybody has at least a little bit of) do not stop Drain.  As a result, an NND advantage simply changes the attack from going against one rare defense to another.  Therefore, it's a +0 advantage.

 

Blast, on the other hand, attacks the most common set of defenses.  PD and ED.  So to change it from a defense that everybody has, to one that almost nobody has, requires a +1 advantage.

 

 You're right of course, I completely missed that the Stun grenades, unlike their Knockout counterparts, are base on Drain rather than Blast.