FH Characters More Powerful then Superheroes

[Gauntlet]

I have found that Fantasy Hero character's (especially in high magic campaigns) have a tendency to become much tougher than Superhero character's do as the campaigns go on.

 

[Scott Ruggels]

Well the two reasons Insee for that are the commonality of killing attacks, and some GMs are a bit free with the distribution of magic band magic items. I would not be one of those responsible for reason 2’in my campaigns, but Incan see it happen. 

[Alcamtar]

All I know is the 375 pt elf in my last campaign was tough as nails.

[Tjack]

   IMHExperience, FH and D&D characters tend not to have as broad a skill set as Supers. Things like detective work and streetwise even though possibly useful in fantasy settings just aren’t a priority. 

[Gauntlet]

1 hour ago, Tjack said:

   IMHExperience, FH and D&D characters tend not to have as broad a skill set as Supers. Things like detective work and streetwise even though possibly useful in fantasy settings just aren’t a priority. 

 

Not quite sure of that. Pretty much every FH character I have played has had at least 20 points in skills (not including WF or Skill Levels). While I will say in Pathfinder or D&D skills aren't that large in number (unless you play a thief in Pathfinder) but in Hero they are utilized much more, even fighters in Hero many times have a number of skills. In fact I have found it the other way around. Most Superhero games are all powers and no skills at all, with the exception of gadgeteers.

 

Of course I guess it depends on your GM. I have always had mystery in my FH games as have the GMs I have played with.

[PhilFleischmann]

12 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

I have found that Fantasy Hero character's (especially in high magic campaigns) have a tendency to become much tougher than Superhero character's do as the campaigns go on.

OK.  Is that a problem?  If so, maybe too many XP are being given out in your fantasy campaigns, or not enough in your superhero campaigns, or maybe both.  But it does really have to be a problem, does it?

[Brian Stanfield]

13 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

I have found that Fantasy Hero character's (especially in high magic campaigns) have a tendency to become much tougher than Superhero character's do as the campaigns go on.

 

Without knowing the particulars about your campaign guidelines, it’s hard to know why fantasy characters seem tougher than supers. 

It could be because there is too much power variance between character types. A 12d6 fireball with AOE vs. a 2d6 sword with a couple of CSLs is not balanced. One character will seem so much tougher than others around him. In a supers game, however, everyone will have similarly powerful attacks, and so it won’t seem so out of control or imbalanced. The relative toughness of characters won’t seem out of whack.

 

Its also possible that magic has some sort of cost divisor making it more affordable and therefore more out of balance with other characters. 
 

 

[Gauntlet]

I don't see a problem, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to start a conversation about it.

[Scott Ruggels]

37 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Without knowing the particulars about your campaign guidelines, it’s hard to know why fantasy characters seem tougher than supers. 

It could be because there is too much power variance between character types. A 12d6 fireball with AOE vs. a 2d6 sword with a couple of CSLs is not balanced. One character will seem so much tougher than others around him. In a supers game, however, everyone will have similarly powerful attacks, and so it won’t seem so out of control or imbalanced. The relative toughness of characters won’t seem out of whack.

 

Its also possible that magic has some sort of cost divisor making it more affordable and therefore more out of balance with other characters. 
 

 

Here's an old FH character. with a fair amount of experience:

 

Here's a 6th Edition FH Character, a basic fighter, equivalent to a 4th level D&D fighter.
 

Magnus
13    STR    15    DEX    13    CON    12    BODY    10    INT
13    EGO    15    PRE        5    PD    2    ED
3    SPD    5    REC    50    END    35    STUN

Abilities:  +3 PER with all Sense Groups; Nightvision; Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group); Rapid ( x10) with Normal Hearing; Tracking with Smell/Taste Group; Benefit:  Squire;  ; Positive Reputation (A small to medium sized group) 11-, +3/+3d6; Environmental Movement: Woodlands brush/hazard (no penalties on);  Language (completely fluent; literate);  ; High Society 8-; KS: Geo Politics: County Thiacast 11-; AK: Duchy Thiacast 13-;  ; Tracking 11-; Survival (Temperate/Subtropical, Mountain) 11-; Shadowing 11-; +3 Track / Survive / Shadow;  ; CuK: Orc 11-;  ; Acrobatics 12-; Breakfall 12-; Stealth 12-;  ; Analyze:  Combat 12-; +5 Any Blade, small group;  ; WF:  Common Melee Weapons; WF:  Thrown Knives, Axes, and Darts, Thrown Rocks; WF:  Sling;  ;  ; Everyman; Acting 8-

175+ Disadvantages:  Psychological Complication:  Strict Code of Hono (Very Common; Strong); Psychological Complication:  Arrogant, disdainful of non fighting traditions (Very Common; Moderate);  ; Social Complication:  Seen as a lower Race / Animal or just a pretender tothe World of Man Very Frequently, Minor, Not Limiting In Some Cultures;  ; Distinctive Features: Lupine:  (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)

[Duke Bushido]

29 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

I don't see a problem, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to start a conversation about it.

 

 

Beautiful!    I love it.  

 

Perhaps, at least in the instance where it's not a problem, it could be considered to model modern video games rather than the books us long-toothed curmudgeons grew up with.  I've watched my kids play those things, and even though they start out running from sheep dogs, by the time they get to the final bosses, it's like watching battles between gods.....  

 

 

I guess it's all about the feel that you like, right?

 

 

 

Scott:

 

You had me at "total hatred of Elves...."

 

           

 

[Scott Ruggels]

18 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Scott:

 

You had me at "total hatred of Elves...."

 

           

 

The Elves in that campaign were right bastards, and were a thorn in Northern Kingdom's expansion.  Forests burn so well, though.

[Brian Stanfield]

44 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Here's an old FH character. with a fair amount of experience:

 

I like that character sheet. Where did it come from?

[Scott Ruggels]

25 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

I like that character sheet. Where did it come from?

Heromakr.exe, that came on a 3.5 Floppy that came with the BBB< which I worked on. I do miss that program.

[Brian Stanfield]

20 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Heromakr.exe, that came on a 3.5 Floppy that came with the BBB< which I worked on. I do miss that program.

 

I've heard of it, but it happened during my hiatus between 3rd and 6th editions. Has someone done a HERO Designer export that resembles it?

[Scott Ruggels]

16 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

I've heard of it, but it happened during my hiatus between 3rd and 6th editions. Has someone done a HERO Designer export that resembles it?

Unfortunately, not that I have found, Otherwise I would use it.  The closest was HTML - D 3-Collumn Compressed (D 3-collumn Compressed.hde) and it looks like this:

[EDIT]  Unfortunately,  HTML Code does not seem to work within the board.  So n I do not seem to be able to display HTML properly as a post reply. But i's similar, but unfortunately writing a long back ground will spawn extra pages.

 

[Scott Ruggels]

	Give that a look.

	 

[Brian Stanfield]

No worries. I've fiddled with a couple of the RTF exports, but I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and brush up on my HTML skills.

[Scott Ruggels]

1 minute ago, Brian Stanfield said:

No worries. I've fiddled with a couple of the RTF exports, but I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and brush up on my HTML skills.

  I edited the post above yours with the HTML< which will give you an idea of what it looks like. The sheet looks fine except for the background information going over long, but that works. give it a go.

[Brian Stanfield]

I got the HTML copied. You can go ahead and delete it again so it doesn't take up so much space. Thanks again.

[Scott Ruggels]

So close enough? or does that  need a push?

[Gauntlet]

6 hours ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Without knowing the particulars about your campaign guidelines, it’s hard to know why fantasy characters seem tougher than supers. 

It could be because there is too much power variance between character types. A 12d6 fireball with AOE vs. a 2d6 sword with a couple of CSLs is not balanced. One character will seem so much tougher than others around him. In a supers game, however, everyone will have similarly powerful attacks, and so it won’t seem so out of control or imbalanced. The relative toughness of characters won’t seem out of whack.

 

Its also possible that magic has some sort of cost divisor making it more affordable and therefore more out of balance with other characters. 
 

 

 

In my game, there is no cost divisor, but what I have found to be the biggest advantages are hit locations and equipment.

 

Hit locations allow an FH character to be able to really do addition damage without having to roll it. For example, call shot head, there is a penalty to hit but if you do you get to have a STUN Multiplier of x5 and do double BODY Damage.

 

As for equipment, it's free for a Fantasy Hero character but not for a superheroic character, and that adds a lot of free points for the FH character, especially if magical items are involved.

[Duke Bushido]

18 hours ago, Tjack said:

   IMHExperience, FH and D&D characters tend not to have as broad a skill set as Supers. Things like detective work and streetwise even though possibly useful in fantasy settings just aren’t a priority. 

 

Really?  I'm not doubting you at all; we all have different games, after all.  It's been my own experience that FH characters tend to have three times or more many skills than supers.  But again, that's just another sign that we run different games.  My players like to buy skills that define the character's background, his passions, and even what he learns along the way during his adventuring career, so, at least for a good while, I have a built-in points-sink.  It works out pretty well.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Without knowing the particulars about your campaign guidelines, it’s hard to know why fantasy characters seem tougher than supers. 

 

 

Ditto.

 

31 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

Hit locations allow an FH character to be able to really do addition damage without having to roll it. For example, call shot head, there is a penalty to hit but if you do you get to have a STUN Multiplier of x5 and do double BODY Damage.

 

Absolutely!  We don't use it too terribly much (not big fans of ultra-bloody combat sequences), but I will roll on it for exceptionally-well-rolled attacks (natural 3, maybe a natural 4 against a ton of penalties).  We don't bother with "your arrow plunges straight through his left eye, just misses his cortex, and plunges out through the vision center of his right lobe, and his depth perception is completely ruined as he falls to his death, making his attempt to throw out his hands to keep his face from hitting the ground as he falls comically ill-timed...."

I'll just pull the damage multipliers from the chart and apply them.  It's not an "always" thing, but it does happen for well-done (either on the dice or through apt role playing) bits.

 

 

 

 

[Gauntlet]

 

I definitely use the additional options in my FH game. Myself, and my players, like have the additional options of hit locations, martial arts, etc. But I agree, it definitely makes combat much bloodier. 

[Scott Ruggels]

2 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

I definitely use the additional options in my FH game. Myself, and my players, like have the additional options of hit locations, martial arts, etc. But I agree, it definitely makes combat much bloodier. 

Just the way I like it. I don't do 4 color any more, except rarely if a friend is doing a nostalgia run.

 

 

[Tjack]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:11 AM, Tjack said:

   IMHExperience, FH and D&D characters tend not to have as broad a skill set as Supers. Things like detective work and streetwise even though possibly useful in fantasy settings just aren’t a priority. 

 

   What I was referring to was that the high mortality rate for PC’s that D&D is known for tends to make players more conscious of keeping a loved character alive. So points will tend to go into defense and attack slots before the more character rounding but ultimately useless types of skills. 
    Superhero games generally aren’t that lethal, so putting points into more character rounding things is an easier call.

    When you have a house in a bad neighborhood you’ll tend to spend more money on insurance and alarms than on painting the garage.

    P.S.  I never quoted myself before in a post, has anyone else done it?