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7 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

I must say...I don't appreciate the insinuation that people who want more localized manufacturing are parochial xenophobes. While it is possible some people (especially during recent times) have adopted this desire because someone more powerful with nationalist agendas manipulated them into buying the hog (for the powerful one's benefit, natch), I've been hearing this discussion for decades now and from people across the political spectrum. Also, his last comment about government reveals an attitude which is endemic to the United States of America; it is one very much born out of living here for an extended period of time while in possession of an at least halfway decent brain. Personally? I would kill (okay, not actually) for a government closer to what Canada has, or Denmark has, or Australia has, or...

 

V from V for Vendetta said "“People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.”

 

I prefer,

 

"The most pointed is V's belief: "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." I am not sure V has it right; surely in the ideal state governments and their people should exist happily together. Fear in either direction must lead to violence." - Roger Ebert.

 

Essentially,  being too self-sufficient does often lead to isolation in your time of need.   Not being self-sufficient enough leads to being slave to the whims of your benefactors (often gov't).

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I tested positive.

Fever broke last night. I'm going to be okay.

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20 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

I can't trust the WHO who ignored information from Taiwan about how contagious it was and then was, days later, still telling us there's no evidence of person-to-person transmission.

 

Have you guys seen the interview with the reporter who asks about Taiwan?  First the WHO guy pretends he can't hear her.  Then he hangs up.  Then she gets him back on the call and asks about Taiwan again and he responds with something along the lines of, "We've already covered that.  Let's move on.".

 

Actual brief non-interview below.  It is chilling.

 

 

 

The world cant even admit to Taiwan's independence from China (lest we hurt China's feelings).  You cant expect Taiwan to actually be allowed respect.

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14 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

There are two major arguments against a lab release.

  1. A bioweapon would have been developed from a known infectious agent, rather than a random virus.
  2. If the virus had been studied in a lab, there would be research material on it (at least raw data). The lack of such material indicates that the virus was not from a lab.

 

 

1-True  2-Good point, though I still would have to trust that China wouldn't withhold information.

 

But, if it "natural".  Then I'd rather visit Australia, 100 times safer.

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11 hours ago, massey said:

Our office reopened today.  Fortunately we've got plenty of room, we can maintain a 6 foot distance really easily.  Downtown here is dead, and the phones aren't ringing, but I guess the boss didn't want to pay us to sit at home anymore.  It's a huge stress reliever to be able to get back to some semblance of normalcy.  I've been worried that our office just wouldn't reopen, so sitting here at my desk (even with nothing to do) makes me feel better.

 

Although I do have to say, I did sort of get to have my ideal vacation.  My wife has been pushing me to take some time off for like the last six months.  And while she wanted to go somewhere, I would have preferred to just stay at home, watch TV, and relax.  Well I got my wish.  I know some people are going stir crazy, but introvert that I am, if it wasn't for the money issue I'd have been perfectly happy to stay home for another month or two.  I really am one of those people who could stay in the cabin for a year for five million dollars.

 

Yeah, one year at my old job.  On my week vacation (9 days counting the weekend), I left the house once (doctor's appointment).  Best week ever.  (except for the fact, I often don't wear deodorant if I am staying at home-no point, if I can stand my own smell,  so raising my arms became a misery after several days)

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3 minutes ago, Old Man said:

...TMI, dude.

 

Yeah, well, I should just say sometimes, to be honest.  But, yeah, I didn't give much of a damn that week, and paid the price by Tuesday.

 

But, yeah, when I have went to the grocery store early morning a couple times of late, and seeing people in their pajamas shopping, that is kind of disgusting to me.  (I gotta shower when I get up before I do anything else or I'd be freaking out).  I instinctively want them to keep a 6 foot difference.

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Well, since comparisons to the Canadian system have come up, I might as well bring in this article: Canada succeeded on coronavirus where America failed. Why?

 

To clarify: this article is written from an American perspective. It's not a uniform hymn of praise for Canada's response to the virus; it rightly identifies the areas where my country failed, and where others have been more successful. But it's clear and reasonable in identifying factors that led to a more effective Canadian response versus American. It interviews professionals in Canada for their perspective on what's worked and what hasn't. Given the great similarities and proximity between our two nations, contrasting them may outline some useful strategies for America going forward.

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10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, HERO gamers. If they had the time they'd stat out the apocalypse as it was happening. :lol:

 

 

I rather thought that's what were were doing right now.

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Of course. I don't mean to imply that times aren't difficult, that people aren't suffering, and there's no reason to be concerned. All those things are real. But more and more people talk about a continuing shutdown of our economy like it means the end of our civilization. The Spanish 'Flu didn't end civilization, nor did the Black Death, nor the Great Depression, nor two world wars. This isn't an Ice Age, or a global nuclear war, or an asteroid impact. I don't want to sound disrespectful, but likening what's happening now to an apocalypse seems like the view of societies which, as a whole, haven't dealt with severe ongoing hardship within living memory.

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Well, the ones who aren't actually broken by hard times, do tend to become stronger.

 

I've learned something important about "strength" over my lifetime, though; it isn't a blanket feature. It comes in different varieties depending on the person. Folks may be able to endure particular harsh conditions, but be far more vulnerable to others. And everyone is vulnerable somewhere. Put enough pressure on that spot, and even the toughest person will crack.

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7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

the view of societies which, as a whole, haven't dealt with severe ongoing hardship within living memory.

 

I think that the folks in my nation who are complaining about "communism" and a tyrannical government when all they're being asked to do is help mitigate the spread of a virus are a testament to that.

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1 hour ago, Tom Cowan said:

 

It might help explain the differing activity somewhat, but also confirms what I was worried about - people have been calling the virus 'static', but I saw no real evidence to believe that assertion at this early stage.  Unfortunately, it seems like, as it wasn't contained in China or its spread stopped at any other point, it'll be a regular part of life.  The significance of that is, because it can greatly affect the health of the lungs, subsequent attacks can be harder (not easier) to deal with... given sufficient/proper mutation.  And that means immunity (via infection or vaccine) won't last very long.

 

It also means people like me with breathing problems, or people with diabetes, are going to have a lot of a harder time, possibly for the next few decades it'll take to advance the very technology of medicine.

 

Keep in mind I'm not a microbiologist, so there's some assumptions inherent in my summation.

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Just went to a restaurant since this mess started (Texas is 25% open now) and we literally had the ENTIRE place to ourselves.

 

Everything is disposable now (menu's, silverware sleeves, etc.) except the silverware and plates.

 

It is straight up creepy to see how dead and inactive everything is.  I felt bad for the place so I left a $20 tip.

 

 

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You know, with all that's been going on recently I've been remembering something I saw quite a few years ago, news footage of survivors of one of the drought-induced famines in Ethiopia. The government attempted to provide rations for those in the regions of the countryside most affected, at various relief stations. But those stations were many miles apart. I watched thin, dust-covered people, many of whom had been walking for days, arrive at the stations, where they were given a paper voucher and told they'd be called when it was their turn to receive food. There were no arguments or protests, no jostling for position, no attempt to rush the food stores. The people just sat on the hard ground, clutching their little vouchers, with quiet, dignified patience.

 

God, just thinking of that makes me tear up again. 😢

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1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Governments can declare things open all they want. The public will decide when that happens.

 

Governments can declare things open all they want, and when they do, the working class lose their unemployment protection. The working class people who had been sheltering in place and getting by then have to choose between financial disaster or risking their lives for a paltry paycheck. The drive to "re-open the economy" isn't coming from people who want to go back to work. It's coming from the rich, who want money flowing into their already overstuffed coffers faster, and from the entitled, who want other people to risk their lives for their own convenience.

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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Governments can declare things open all they want. The public will decide when that happens.

This is true. And you should see the crowds at Huntington Beach. Once the shelter at home is lifted, and the weather improves, the public will emerge in significant numbers. 

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33 minutes ago, Zeropoint said:

 

Governments can declare things open all they want, and when they do, the working class lose their unemployment protection. The working class people who had been sheltering in place and getting by then have to choose between financial disaster or risking their lives for a paltry paycheck. The drive to "re-open the economy" isn't coming from people who want to go back to work. It's coming from the rich, who want money flowing into their already overstuffed coffers faster, and from the entitled, who want other people to risk their lives for their own convenience.

I need an"infuriated" emoji.

 

Speaking of which, I'm wondering if I should bow out for a bit. Things I can't control get me far too upset far too readily, and being alone as I am with no respite I'm approaching a state of constant paranoia. I doubt I have anything more of value to contribute to the topic.

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