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2 hours ago, Badger said:

I did figure if/where. India got hit it would get brutal. Those cities aren't built for social distancing or health really

 

Same with Mexico.

Did you realize Mexico City has close to 22 million people?  5th largest population in the world.  Lots of it in...not exactly wealthy condition.  They're also suffering with a very high death rate, altho that could well be related to inadequate testing and therefore massive undercount...in which case, their per capita case count becomes truly horrible.....

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58 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Same with Mexico.

Did you realize Mexico City has close to 22 million people?  5th largest population in the world.  Lots of it in...not exactly wealthy condition.  They're also suffering with a very high death rate, altho that could well be related to inadequate testing and therefore massive undercount...in which case, their per capita case count becomes truly horrible.....

Things aren;t all that great in Mexico already. At what point does drug cartels fighting civil authority and each other for control of the country count as a civil war?

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I think it counts if/when the cartels actually claim Mexican land and try to govern it. So far as I can tell, their battles up to now have been to conduct their "business" without government interference, and to destroy their business rivals. They don't seem to aspire to actually rule anything -- probably too much work for too little profit.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

Things aren;t all that great in Mexico already. At what point does drug cartels fighting civil authority and each other for control of the country count as a civil war?


The term you’re looking for is “failed state”, but I don’t think they’re quite there... yet. America could get there first. 

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4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I think it counts if/when the cartels actually claim Mexican land and try to govern it. So far as I can tell, their battles up to now have been to conduct their "business" without government interference, and to destroy their business rivals. They don't seem to aspire to actually rule anything -- probably too much work for too little profit.

 

They govern by proxy.  They don't need to be the mayor, police chief, etc. when those people are in their back pocket, or controlled by them in some manner.

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30 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Exactly. They're parasites -- they don't steer the body politic, they just feed off it. As long as they get theirs, they don't care what else the government does.

 

But "getting theirs" is rather extensive.  

 

Found this from an online Poli Sci class:

Major functions of modern government include (1) foreign diplomacy, (2) military defense, (3) maintenance of domestic order, (4) administration of justice, (5) protection of civil liberties, (6) provision for and regulation of the conduct of periodic elections, (7) provision for public goods and services, (8) promotion of economic growth and development, (9) operation of social- insurance programs to prevent future poverty, and (10) operation of social-welfare programs to alleviate existing poverty.

 

On the local level, 1 and 2 don't count.  They control 3-6;  their idea for 8 is "we make money";  and heck, 9 and 10 even...jobs THEY offer, working for them.

 

So their proxy control is...most of government's functions.

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6 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

I think we're coming at the concept of "proxy control" from different directions. The cartels might exert brute force related to 3 at their local level, to the degree "order" means they're free to operate with impunity; and 8, again, as long as it applies to their own economic growth and development. 9 and 10 occasionally fall under the heading of local "charitable" works to keep the masses in their centers of operation docile. Otherwise they have no interest in the functions you cite, unless and until their outcome affects their own operations. Some of those, such as the administration of justice and protection of civil liberties,  run directly counter to their self-interest. Yes, they'll bribe or threaten elected officials and judiciary to get compliant ones elected and to keep their hands off them; but otherwise they almost never exert any control over and couldn't care less what those officials do. And they've demonstrated that if those officials try to take what they consider theirs, they're willing to tear down the whole country to keep it.

 

You might as well say that a gang charging "protection" from people in the turf they claim, are actually governing them.

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17 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Same with Mexico.

Did you realize Mexico City has close to 22 million people?  5th largest population in the world.  Lots of it in...not exactly wealthy condition.  They're also suffering with a very high death rate, altho that could well be related to inadequate testing and therefore massive undercount...in which case, their per capita case count becomes truly horrible.....

Yes I did realize the population of MC, though it was 2nd (and thought Nigeria's was first

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2 hours ago, Badger said:

Yes I did realize the population of MC, though it was 2nd (and thought Nigeria's was first

 

I believe the site was using UN data and definitions.  Different definitions will yield different populations, and therefore rankings.  

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The virus has claimed actor Nick Carduro after a battle that lasted nearly a hundred days.

 

Carduro was better known for his Broadway stage work than for TV or film, but he had just relocated with his family to LA last year. Then the virus took hold of him and never let go. I will not give you the details from the link here, but they are shocking.

 

And to think his story is one of a hundred thousand other stories of people who went through this ordeal and did not emerge.

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6 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

I believe the site was using UN data and definitions.  Different definitions will yield different populations, and therefore rankings.  

Been several years since I had seen rankings to be fair.  Could have either changed since or I just misremembered.

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I love how new case counts almost always decrease on Sundays.  Anyone who only checks them then is going to get a very skewed idea of how the pandemic is progressing.

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14 hours ago, pinecone said:

Yep, I use my cane to operate the buttons, or when I remember I use gloves.

 

I've been using my house or car keys to push any button when I'm out and about.

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The case and hospitalization counts continue to climb, but the daily death count continues to drop.

 

Seems like the time we bought with the shutdowns has resulted in better outcomes.

 

There's been enough delay since the upswing in hospitalizations we should be seeing an upswing in deaths, but it's currently at the lowest rate it's been in several months.

 

image.png.146272258b026b1a382da47e7d39bbda.png

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33 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

The case and hospitalization counts continue to climb, but the daily death count continues to drop.

 

Seems like the time we bought with the shutdowns has resulted in better outcomes.

 

There's been enough delay since the upswing in hospitalizations we should be seeing an upswing in deaths, but it's currently at the lowest rate it's been in several months.

 

image.png.146272258b026b1a382da47e7d39bbda.png

That is as close to good new as we could hope for with how things have been going.

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