Coronavirus

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Cygnia said:

 

I've thought that one good way to get Amurricans to take the vaccine would be to threaten to take it away from red states and send it to countries that contain brown people.

[Cygnia]

I have the sinking suspicion that 'Murricans would go out of their way to destroy/taint any such vaccines before them pesky minorities were allowed to take them...

[death tribble]

Iran through 3 million cases, Switzerland through 700,000 cases

[Matt the Bruins]

23 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

And can we send her to India with it?

 

No, scratch that... they're dealing with enough grief already.

That island off the Indian coast whose inhabitants riddle any outsiders approaching with arrows might be an option, however...

[death tribble]

Peru through 2 million cases

[unclevlad]

What I wish our system allowed...if you refuse the vaccine, then develop Covid...your insurance is voided.  You pay for everything.

 

But that'll never happen.

[archer]

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

What I wish our system allowed...if you refuse the vaccine, then develop Covid...your insurance is voided.  You pay for everything.

 

But that'll never happen.

 

What you're wishing for is a variation on "pre-existing conditions aren't covered".

 

And even though that's the financial basis of all insurance, we as a society have decided to reject that philosophy altogether rather than try to tweak it so it'd work better.

 

As long as you could wish for impossible things, wish for mandatory vaccination. Or wish that everyone was smart enough to get vaccinated.

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, archer said:

Or wish that everyone was smart enough to get vaccinated.

 

If the last four years have taught me anything, it's not that a lot of people are stupid.  It's that a majority of people are dangerously stupid.

[archer]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

If the last four years have taught me anything, it's not that a lot of people are stupid.  It's that a majority of people are dangerously stupid.

 

Very true.

[BoloOfEarth]

6 hours ago, unclevlad said:

What I wish our system allowed...if you refuse the vaccine, then develop Covid...your insurance is voided.  You pay for everything.

 

But that'll never happen.

 

I was talking to a coworker years ago, who was upset because she was required to wear a helmet while four-wheeling.  Her argument was, "If I want to do something dangerous, that's my choice.  It's my life."  I said, "That's fine.  As long as you're okay with your insurance choosing not to pay for your closed-head injury and years of rehab if you're injured but not killed."

 

She countered with, "But I'm paying for that insurance.  So really, I'm paying for my own treatment."

 

I argued, "No, you're not, unless you've paid in a half million dollars or more.  I'm paying for your treatment.  And he is."  (point at one coworker)  "And she is."  (point at another)  "We'd all be paying for your choice."

 

Then she asked if I felt the same way about the possibility of her getting cancer because she smokes.  We won't even go into that pile of stupid.

[unclevlad]

I draw a distinction between wearing the helmet and smoking for a few reasons.  One, you can't isolate the risk increase from smoking;  there are other factors.  Two, on this argument, should someone who eats poorly, doesn't exercise, etc. be denied coverage when the diabetes diagnosis is made?  That's a very tricky slope.  But not wearing a helmet while off-roading, or at any time on a motorcycle, or not wearing a seat belt in the car, have clear cause and effect.  Sure, I'd pay for the other injuries (one guy I used to work with, had one of his hands utterly mangled and largely useless from an off-road motorcycling accident) but as you say, damage to the head is excluded if wearing the helmet would have mitigated or prevented it.  Another example would be driving drunk.  

 

Now, ok, the point about the slippery slope with regard to lifestyle-related conditions might apply to vaccinations here.  And what do you do when the objection is based on religious belief rather than a "no one can tell ME what to do" attitude?  Another point is that some exclusions for these types of situations have been in policies...but in legalese.  And they've potentially been abused by the insurance companies to avoid paying out clains.

 

So a lot of this would be perfectly fine in an Ayn Rand universe.....

[Old Man]

Good news: The Novavax vaccine, which uses a new technology unrelated to the traditional (J&J / Oxford Az) or mRNA (Moderna / Pfizer) vaccines, has cleared trials and should receive FDA approval shortly.

 

Ungood news: The Delta variant, which is estimated to be 60% more contagious and also more deadly than Covid Classic®, now accounts for 10% of all cases in the US and is expected to become the dominant variant by the end of summer. 

[pinecone]

3 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

If the last four years have taught me anything, it's not that a lot of people are stupid.  It's that a majority of people are dangerously stupid.

That has Always been true.

[unclevlad]

6 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

If the last four years have taught me anything, it's not that a lot of people are stupid.  It's that a majority of people are dangerously stupid.

 

It doesn't take a majority, unless you meant that a majority of stupid people are dangerously stupid.  Probably couldn't argue that.

A problem here is that stupidity spreads like fire, and modern society lets factions toss gasoline around.  So a small minority can turn into a raging majority in an eyeblink.

[Old Man]

6 hours ago, pinecone said:

That has Always been true.

 

Yes, but I was naïve.

[Asperion]

14 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

If the last four years have taught me anything, it's not that a lot of people are stupid.  It's that a majority of people are dangerously stupid.

 

I don't believe in the stupidity of people.  However, I do think that they are basically sheep waiting for some leader and willing to follow whatever misguided message someone puts out,  no matter how incredibly dangerous and misleading it really happens to be. 

[Hugh Neilson]

1 minute ago, Asperion said:

 

I don't believe in the stupidity of people.  However, I do think that they are basically sheep waiting for some leader and willing to follow whatever misguided message someone puts out,  no matter how incredibly dangerous and misleading it really happens to be. 

 

Scott Adams once noted that pretty much every issue could be explained by one, or a combination, of (IIRC):

 

Humans are greedy

Humans are horny

Humans are stupid

[Pariah]

Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid.

 

More specifically: People will believe any lie if they want it to be true, or if they're afraid that it might me true.

 

Terry Goodkind channelled Ayn Rand a little too effectively for me to take everything he wrote seriously, but he was dead solid perfect on that one. 

[pinecone]

I used to call it the exponitial dumb rule: Every time you double the number of persons, you reduce the amount of smart available.

[Cygnia]

I don't even know if it's fully a case of lack of smarts...it's like people want to be contrarian.

[Old Man]

5 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

I don't even know if it's fully a case of lack of smarts...it's like people want to be contrarian.

 

More like they want to be bullies to people not in their group.  Hur hur watch me own those nerds by not taking their stupid vaccine I ain't scared of some tiny virus.  God will purtect me and Trump says it's okay.

[Cygnia]

[Lee]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:38 AM, Cygnia said:

...it's like people want to be contrarian.

No we don't! 

[Cygnia]

[Lord Liaden]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:02 PM, unclevlad said:

I draw a distinction between wearing the helmet and smoking for a few reasons.  One, you can't isolate the risk increase from smoking;  there are other factors.  Two, on this argument, should someone who eats poorly, doesn't exercise, etc. be denied coverage when the diabetes diagnosis is made?  That's a very tricky slope.  But not wearing a helmet while off-roading, or at any time on a motorcycle, or not wearing a seat belt in the car, have clear cause and effect.  Sure, I'd pay for the other injuries (one guy I used to work with, had one of his hands utterly mangled and largely useless from an off-road motorcycling accident) but as you say, damage to the head is excluded if wearing the helmet would have mitigated or prevented it.  Another example would be driving drunk.  

 

Now, ok, the point about the slippery slope with regard to lifestyle-related conditions might apply to vaccinations here.  And what do you do when the objection is based on religious belief rather than a "no one can tell ME what to do" attitude?  Another point is that some exclusions for these types of situations have been in policies...but in legalese.  And they've potentially been abused by the insurance companies to avoid paying out clains.

 

So a lot of this would be perfectly fine in an Ayn Rand universe.....

 

People who aren't vaccinated have a greater risk of passing the virus on to other people who aren't yet vaccinated, or who are in more danger due to poor health, potentially including their own loved ones. People who aren't vaccinated and get sick put a strain on an already burdened health care system and doctors and nurses who are dangerously exhausted and stressed. People who aren't vaccinated increase the potential hosts for the virus so it can continue to thrive in our communities perpetually, and give it more opportunities to mutate into even more dangerous strains.

 

The right to choose can have many valid reasons, but in this situation simple selfishness should not be one of them. And it can't be carte blanche to threaten other people's lives.