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1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

The right to choose can have many valid reasons, but in this situation simple selfishness should not be one of them. And it can't be carte blanche to threaten other people's lives.

 

So who decides what is an acceptable reason for the population in general?  And what else do they have the right to decide?  The law and the government are not subtle instruments.

 

In some cases, we can readily demand that there are no valid reasons...get vaccinated or get fired.  Health care workers is the most obvious, and the staff of a nursing home.  I have no problem with school districts requiring vaccinations for all employees and all students.  More broadly, I have no problem with any employer deciding that all employees must be vaccinated;  they don't need extra grounds.  

 

But that isn't the same as the government stepping in and making these decisions.  If freedom means anything, it must include the right to say No.  That isn't absolute;  when there is no meaningful imposition on a person's freedom (wearing a mask), then the requirement is well within public safety concerns.  Does requiring vaccination impose a burden?  That is a good question.  I don't think so.  I'm sure you don't think so.  But it is a more intrusive move, and it is not completely risk-free.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

So who decides what is an acceptable reason for the population in general?  And what else do they have the right to decide?  The law and the government are not subtle instruments.

 

 

No, they aren't. But the government is already given the right to decide for the population in general when we elect them. That's the contract. The legislators decide when they pass laws. The courts decide when they interpret laws. As you noted, freedom of choice is not an absolute. Between Yes and No is a world of argument and compromise to try to draw the line.

 

The right to say No is invaluable, but saying it for yourself isn't the same as saying it for someone else. And all to often in this debate it's said like a petulant child instead of a responsible adult.

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Only us Boomers remember the last days of this country not being vaccinated and consciously think about it. Those same people who won't take the Covid vaccine were given the vaccines for measles, mumps, polio, rubella and smallpox before they ever had a say in the matter. Sadly, it'll probably take something as deadly as smallpox to turn this ship around.

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You have to wonder how bad it has to get before the anti-vaxxers will finally face reality. As Erik Frederick wrote in that article: "Bed capacity is strained. ED waits are long. COVID patients are younger, sicker and unvaccinated. Vaccines are free, available and effective. What are you waiting for? 82? 102? 152? What about 1? 1 person you care about? You?"

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As Winston Churchill once said:

 

The Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing once all other possibilities have been exhausted.

 

Guess we're not there yet.  Mind you, here in the province of Alberta, Canada, we have a wide variance in vaccination rates between urban and rural locations.  When we all open up at once, some areas will be hit harder than others, I suspect.  And it all opens up July 1...

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39 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Argh.  Conflicting recommendations is the worst situation...

 

This is the kind of stuff the anti-vaxers (and the anti-science faction generally) feed on.  

 

I just can't understand this. Eighteen months in and 600k+ deaths in the US alone and there are still Covid deniers. I guess it must be the Jewish space lasers that are killing all those people. 

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They've had implanted in their minds that the only information sources they can trust are the ones that tell them what they already believe. Those 600k deaths are either due to other causes or are deliberate lies, as far as they're concerned.

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But understand that conflicting advice from "so-called experts" feeds into the denial narrative...and the climate change narrative...and anything siimilar.  It gives the pundits of that stripe PROOF!!! that scientists are part of the left-leaning Godless heathens who obey the whims of their political masters, and that they can't be trusted, see????

 

Covid denial and vaccine denial could not have had the enormous success they gained without having this ground well fertilized in advance.

 

And the advice itself just *sounds* alarmist as heck.  I'm not saying it's wrong;  I'm just looking at its reception.  Oh, here we go again, next thing you know those libs will be pushing for shutdowns again!!!  

 

I gotta say, the question to me is, ok, the delta variant is nasty.  BUT, if I'm vaccinated, what are my risks?  Even I have to ask if this is a reasonable move or a "the only acceptable level of risk is zero" move.  Is this being driven by bad interpretations of the statistical data...that is, ok, the delta variant is causing an increase in cases.  BUT, what percentage is among those who never got vaccinated???  Hey, public health officials got burned once, so it's not a great stretch to say they're gonna be seriously gunshy now.

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