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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I think it likely his wife will publicly claim that if her husband had gotten ivermectin sooner and/or longer, he would have lived.

 

What odds are you giving? I might be interested in winning some money on that bet.

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3 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

What odds are you giving? I might be interested in winning some money on that bet.

 

Not a bet I'd want to make.  Can't estimate any kind of odds, because there are huge unknowns.  The hubby was in the ICU for 70-80 days...the hospital charge might well be bigger than their house is worth.  How much their insurance will cover is one of the major unknowns.  But if the widow's stuck with trying to come up with $250K, the question would be whether she could find a lawyer willing to take a case that admittedly looks completely hopeless.  

 

But that doesn't mean some lawyer won't TRY.

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15 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm not even talking lawsuit necessarily. The court of public opinion is where most of the battles over COVID treatments are currently being waged. Any protesting voice can quickly be amplified across social media.

 

Oh, heck yeah.  NO bet there.  She's gonna scream to anyone that listens that the hospital killed her hubby by "brutally denying the treatment that could have saved his life!!!!"  In suitably dramatic tones, preferably with crocodile tears...at least occasionally.

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2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Oh, heck yeah.  NO bet there.  She's gonna scream to anyone that listens that the hospital killed her hubby by "brutally denying the treatment that could have saved his life!!!!"  In suitably dramatic tones, preferably with crocodile tears...at least occasionally.

 

1. There is, as far as I have heard, no verified peer-reviewed evidence that ivermectin has any effect whatsoever on COVID-19.

 

2. Ivermectin isn't hard to get. You can walk into IFA or pretty much any farm supply store and buy it, no prescription needed. It's in the horse supplies section. 

 

Yeah, I know, facts like this don't really have much role in the current narrative. But they are facts nonetheless.

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2 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

1. There is, as far as I have heard, no verified peer-reviewed evidence that ivermectin has any effect whatsoever on COVID-19.

 

2. Ivermectin isn't hard to get. You can walk into IFA or pretty much any farm supply store and buy it, no prescription needed. It's in the horse supplies section. 

 

Yeah, I know, facts like this don't really have much role in the current narrative. But they are facts nonetheless.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-tragic-ivermectin-for-covid-frenzy-warning-to-us-experts-2021-9

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Oh, heck yeah.  NO bet there.  She's gonna scream to anyone that listens that the hospital killed her hubby by "brutally denying the treatment that could have saved his life!!!!"  In suitably dramatic tones, preferably with crocodile tears...at least occasionally.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-tragic-ivermectin-for-covid-frenzy-warning-to-us-experts-2021-9

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4 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

1. There is, as far as I have heard, no verified peer-reviewed evidence that ivermectin has any effect whatsoever on COVID-19.

 

2. Ivermectin isn't hard to get. You can walk into IFA or pretty much any farm supply store and buy it, no prescription needed. It's in the horse supplies section. 

 

Yeah, I know, facts like this don't really have much role in the current narrative. But they are facts nonetheless.

 

No prescription needed, perhaps, for its use with horses.  

But the point is, the woman sued to force the hospital to give her husband ivermectin.  She won at the first level, but lost thereafter.  So her "argument" is the hospital refused.  She has plenty of "evidence" that it CAN help.  That the "evidence" is debunked doesn't matter because, well, we all know everything about covid is being censored by the government anyway, right?  So she'll cite the non-existent "facts" for anyone who'll listen...and create another feedback loop for the whole Covid-hoax, anti-vax brigade.

 

 

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8 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Oh, heck yeah.  NO bet there.  She's gonna scream to anyone that listens that the hospital killed her hubby by "brutally denying the treatment that could have saved his life!!!!"  In suitably dramatic tones, preferably with crocodile tears...at least occasionally.

 

We should be careful about minimizing the grief this woman is probably going through. This would be a traumatic loss for anyone, regardless of what did or didn't contribute to it.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

We should be careful about minimizing the grief this woman is probably going through. This would be a traumatic loss for anyone, regardless of what did or didn't contribute to it.

 

I get it, but I've lost most of the ability to grieve for those who appear to bring this on themselves.  A quick look at WorldOMeters?  Over 10,000 people died from Covid last week.  CNN has a story about a 10 year old girl who developed some symptoms, then died *5 days later*...that's where I direct all the sympathy I can still manage.  

 

I will say she and her husband may well be victims in this...with some culpability, perhaps, but still victims.  But the lies and disinformation have gone on too long.  The refusal, in most cases, to getting vaccinated is a choice to accept the risks...but it's not just for that person.  It helped keep the chain moving.  

 

I'll grant that I'm far more angry at those who push the lies...especially when they're profiting from the lies.

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Quote

The money is part of a $123 billion infusion intended to help schools reopen and recover from the pandemic. But with few limits on how the funding can be spent, The Associated Press found that some districts have used large portions to cover athletics projects they couldn’t previously afford.

 

Flush with COVID-19 aid, schools steer funding to sports

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Maryland man accused of killing his pharmacist brother wanted to confront him for administering the Covid-19 vaccine, court documents say

 

"Jeffrey Allen Burnham, 46, also allegedly told a tipster "that his brother was 'killing people with the COVID shot,'" according to the statement of charges."

 

One wonders whether anti-vaxxer media types might bear some (legal) responsibility for things like this.

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12 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Maryland man accused of killing his pharmacist brother wanted to confront him for administering the Covid-19 vaccine, court documents say

 

"Jeffrey Allen Burnham, 46, also allegedly told a tipster "that his brother was 'killing people with the COVID shot,'" according to the statement of charges."

 

One wonders whether anti-vaxxer media types might bear some (legal) responsibility for things like this.

 

Ethically?  I think so.  One or more of the above would seem to be true:

a)  They know their statements are BS.

b)  They've never fact-checked.

c)  Their "fact checking" is limited to finding more echo chambers repeating the BS claims, or to those who are profiteering.

d)  Their "fact checking" implicitly disregards anyone in the Establishment because, well, they all lie.

 

Take your pick.  But I simply can't believe that they're not willfully ignoring the truth because it's not convenient for them.  So, yes, they bear a degree of responsibility for actions driven by their falsehoods.  

 

But legally?  I don't think so.  There's millions who think the vaccine is risky, or that the whole "threat" is overblown.  But their actions are rarely violent, and even when they are, they're property-related.  Or they protest.  The crazy NYC crowd that picketed at the Australian embassy...that's more their speed.  IIRC a testing station was also overturned and trashed.  If that's the limit in a mob action, that's mild.  Accepting for argument the facts presented, the accused acted with a plan, with deliberation, and with clear and conscious intent.  This wasn't spur of the moment.  So his actions were wildly atypical, and you can't predict the actions of a deranged person. 

 

What *might* be possible is somehow to require stronger fact-checking, or perhaps extend notions of defamation laws.  One claim from last year, at least, was that the numbers of Covid-related cases and deaths were inflated because the hospitals could charge more for them...and that death certificates were listing Covid as the CoD for political reasons.  If these were targeted at an individual, they're libel.  They aren't;  they're sweeping generalities.  Note the difference between that, and the voting-machine election fraud assertions...those were explicitly targeted, so there's libel suits ongoing.  The news outlets *should* hold themselves to higher standards but that's hard to do.

 

OTOH, the doctors who tout quack cures, or deny essential facts...they can and should IMO (and I suspect the vast majority of us active in this thread) be held liable for their false statements, as violations of their oaths, and probably malpractice.

 

 

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