2020-2021 NFL Thread

[unclevlad]

1 minute ago, Old Man said:

 

On the contrary, the situation almost demands it.

 

Oh, good.  The etiquette of the situation felt complex.

[unclevlad]

Note to Bucs:  with less than 6 minutes left, a 10:1 pass:run play ratio is an invitation to disaster.  And it is not the way to ensure QB longevity.

 

 

Just thought I'd point that out.  

 

EDIT:  Thanks, NBC.  Bucs set record for fewest rushing attempts in a game.  5.  That counts taking the knee on the last play of the game.

[Starlord]

I've always thought Brady was a decent guy and a winner.  I also appreciated that he repeatedly took less money so that his team could spend it elsewhere.  My annoyance (and envy) was usually directed at the Patriots organization.

 

However, I do not go along with Brady suddenly being anointed the GOAT once he won his 6th championship.  I've always felt he was a good QB on a great team who built himself into a very good QB on a very good team.  I wouldn't even put him in my all-time top 5.

 

In no particular order:

Peyton Manning

Dan Marino

John Elway

Johnny Unitas

Aaron Rodgers

 

Honorable Mention:

Drew Brees

Brett Favre

Joe Montana

Steve Young

[Pariah]

Personally I would swap Aaron Rodgers for Joe Montana, but that's a solid list.

[Starlord]

3 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Personally I would swap Aaron Rodgers for Joe Montana, but that's a solid list.

 

I've never seen anyone better under pressure than Joe Montana (except, weirdly, Eli Manning...perhaps because he doesn't seem to have any emotions other than 'meh'), but the 49ers in the 80s had a ton of great players, with excellent coaching and solid management surrounding him.  Rodgers has generally just had himself and some above average guys...that's why I bumped him up.

 

If I was forced to pick a GOAT it would probably be Peyton.

[Pariah]

Oh, little-known fact of the week: Tom Brady had never been swept by a division rival until this year against New Orleans.

[Starlord]

Man, what is it with Washington QB's and gruesome leg injuries?

 

 

[Old Man]

Must be pretty gruesome for the NFL to block the whole video that quickly.

[Badger]

Heard Winston got in late and went 1 for 1 in passing.

 

That is probably the least amount of help he has ever provided the Saints in a Saints/Bucs game

[Old Man]

Hate to see New England win but Nick Folk Revenge Kick was pretty cool. 

[Pariah]

... and that's why the New York Jets are 0-9.

[unclevlad]

Not a Pats fan either, but the nasty side of me was amused.  As Pariah said.......

 

 

[Michael Hopcroft]

The Jets have been a flaming wreck of a franchise for years. I heard the commentator say all nine of the Jets draft picks in 2000 were in uniform and on the field. It astonishes me that any team holds onto their entire draft, in any sport. In the NBA, if you are drafted in the second round you might as well plan your post-basketball career because it will start very soon unless you want to go abroad or hang around the G-League for a couple of years waiting for a 10-day contract to sit on the bench when a starter gets hurt.

 

I would like to see the figures on how many players taken in the fifth, sixth, and seventh rounds make their teams their first season and aren't sent to the practice squad for development or outright cut or waived.

 

You can't really have a "process" in pro football, where players are so readily prone to serious injury. If you go 0-9, it's because you just flat out can't play up to the level of your opponents. The Jets are young and inexperienced, getting their baptism in the field under a constant staccato of gunfire. The game was decent at the end, but I would be surprised if it was must-see TV for anyone outside the teams' fanbases.

[unclevlad]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

The Jets have been a flaming wreck of a franchise for years. I heard the commentator say all nine of the Jets draft picks in 2000 were in uniform and on the field. It astonishes me that any team holds onto their entire draft, in any sport. In the NBA, if you are drafted in the second round you might as well plan your post-basketball career because it will start very soon unless you want to go abroad or hang around the G-League for a couple of years waiting for a 10-day contract to sit on the bench when a starter gets hurt.

 

I would like to see the figures on how many players taken in the fifth, sixth, and seventh rounds make their teams their first season and aren't sent to the practice squad for development or outright cut or waived.

 

You can't really have a "process" in pro football, where players are so readily prone to serious injury. If you go 0-9, it's because you just flat out can't play up to the level of your opponents. The Jets are young and inexperienced, getting their baptism in the field under a constant staccato of gunfire. The game was decent at the end, but I would be surprised if it was must-see TV for anyone outside the teams' fanbases.

 

The NBA situation is *massively* different.  First:  there's only, IIRC, 15 roster spots.  So 450 players.  With 300+ teams playing DIv I.  If you reach around the top 9 on a team, you're probably set to have a roster spot for 7-9 years.  You might get traded, sure, but that roster spot's still basically gone.  So, for most teams, there's maybe 2 spots open with the big club;  otherwise it's 10 day contracts and G League, as you mentioned.

 

Baseball has 25 spots...but (well used to have) a robust minor league structure, and baseball draft picks have HUGE fail rates.  So there's more slots and higher turnovers.

 

Football has a huge rosters, and player longevity is something like 3 years on average.  So turnover is huge.  So from that standpoint alone...still having all nine is freakish.  BUT...an alternate explanation is, the Jets have been terrible at player development.  They're still there because *no one else really wants them.*  

 

That said...no way the 2000 draft has 9 players left.  I doubt there are 9 players in the entire league from the 2000 draft.  They did have 9 picks in 2020, but one appears to be not on the roster, and another is on IR.  6 picks only in '19 and '18.  9 picks in '17, but 3 of them have 4, 4, and 2 games played.

I think a fair number of players in those later rounds do eventually make teams;  the numbers game suggests that.  Yeah, by and large, you're looking at practice squad quite a bit for a few years;  that's just the way it is.  Mind:  if you can make it for the full 17 weeks, you won't be hurting.  $8400 a week.

[Starlord]

Guessing that 2000 was a typo.

[Cancer]

On 11/9/2020 at 4:54 AM, Starlord said:

I've always thought Brady was a decent guy and a winner.  I also appreciated that he repeatedly took less money so that his team could spend it elsewhere.  My annoyance (and envy) was usually directed at the Patriots organization.

 

However, I do not go along with Brady suddenly being anointed the GOAT once he won his 6th championship.  I've always felt he was a good QB on a great team who built himself into a very good QB on a very good team.  I wouldn't even put him in my all-time top 5.

 

In no particular order:

Peyton Manning

Dan Marino

John Elway

Johnny Unitas

Aaron Rodgers

 

Honorable Mention:

Drew Brees

Brett Favre

Joe Montana

Steve Young

 

On 11/9/2020 at 4:56 AM, Pariah said:

Personally I would swap Aaron Rodgers for Joe Montana, but that's a solid list.

 

A little on the recent side ... only Unitas is pre-1980s?

[Starlord]

51 minutes ago, Cancer said:

 

 

A little on the recent side ... only Unitas is pre-1980s?

 

QB has developed into easily the most difficult job in sports by any measurable standard.  Before Unitas, QB was just a glorified RB IMO.  Yes, there were innovators such as Sammy Baugh and Y.A. Tittle but I think even below average QBs today would be miles ahead of any QB before the 70s.  It's not even their fault really, the position (and the game) is so different and advanced nowadays.  YMMV.

[Cancer]

My mileage does vary, because the league has rules-drifted to make passing statistics gaudier.  How many decades has it been since there was an offensive pass interference call?

[unclevlad]

Oh, I see 1 or 2 OPI calls.

 

A year.

 

GOAT debates that span non-comparable eras are almost pointless.  Who was the better 3 point shooter...Steph or Reggie?  Motion rules are different;  Steph has a somewhat easier time getting open.  With QBs, everything is different.  The QB position is FAR more the centerpiece, to be sure.  The passing game has become the focus because, as Cancer points out, the rules changed to help the offense FAR more than the defense.  No more bump and run.  DPI is called, I think, more tightly.  QBs are far more protected.  Intentional grounding is now rare.

 

I think you're also forgetting QBs like Starr, Jurgensen, Van Brocklin, etc. etc.  These are the HOF QBs whose careers ended before 1985:
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Ken Stabler 1970-1984
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
 

And Dan Fouts isn't even on the list because he retired in 1987.

 

If you threw most of these guys with the training of their day, into a game against a current defense and with the current rules?  Yeah, I'll buy they would struggle.  But that's a ridiculous comparison.  Give them the time to adjust, and it's very likely a completely different story.  Tarkenton?  Russell Wilson.  Fouts?  Drew Brees.

 

Plus, with the modern QBs, how would they fare having to play against the classic, CRUSHING defenses of the past, with all the rules that favored defenses, and battered around the QBs, if all they'd ever faced was the modern rules and defenses?

 

 

[Starlord]

6 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

GOAT debates that span non-comparable eras are almost pointless. 

 

Most sports debates, like superhero debates, are pointless, yes.  Still fun though...at least for me. 

[unclevlad]

Q:  What's the difference right now between Cam Newton and Tom Brady?

 

A:  Newton's dealing with a sore neck;  Brady's dealing with a pain in the neck.

 

It's not clear which will disappear first....

[unclevlad]

Oof.  La Canfora's not a screamer, either...

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-colts-should-bench-philip-rivers-before-its-too-late-texans-future-not-hopeless-and-more/

 

Their team QB rating is in the bottom third...and the teams below them are the Jets, Pats, Broncos, Eagles, Giants, WFT, Cowboys, and Bears.  

 

NBC Sports has him at 18th but with the comment that he's a rhythm QB and when things go south, they go WAY south.  And again, the QBs ranked lower are Lock, Newton, Wentz, Foles, Minshew, Darnold, and Dalton, among others.  

[unclevlad]

On 11/10/2020 at 4:26 PM, Cancer said:

My mileage does vary, because the league has rules-drifted to make passing statistics gaudier.  How many decades has it been since there was an offensive pass interference call?

 

INTERESTING point on this from the TNF broadcast right now.

Offensive holding and OPI calls are half what they were last year at the season midpoint.

Mike Pereira said it's because the refs were instructed to only call the obvious ones.  

 

[Pariah]

I remember several years ago a series of commercials during baseball season, the overarching theme of which was "Chicks dig the long ball". I think this is probably something similar. The league, already losing revenue due to not being able to put fans in the stands, wants to make their televised games as sexy as possible. And defensive struggles just aren't sexy.

[Badger]

Of course, with past QBs, in today game, given the level of patience in development. Bradshaw would have been declared a bust before he had time to develop. It really took him about 5 years, and didnt even fully win the job till their 2nd SB season.