grandmastergm Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Hello everyone, I noticed issue #56 of Haymaker featured a female Grond named Gronda. I created a version of her that is a bit more playable that will be an option at a couple of convention games that I'm going to run this year. I also just commissioned a piece of her by Taghuso, an artist on deviantart. Here she is: Val Char Cost 60 STR 50 15 DEX 10 35 CON 25 20 BODY 10 8 INT -2 10 EGO 0 30 PRE 20 35 PD 8 30 ED 3 4 SPD 20 20 REC 16 70 END 10 70 STUN 25 12m RUN 0 4m SWIM 0 44m LEAP 0 6 OCV 15 6 DCV 15 3 DMCV 0 3 DMCV 0 Characteristics Cost: 225 Cost Power END 13 Very Skilled Four-Armed Combat: Autofire (4 shots; +1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR; Requires A Roll (12- roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -3/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) [Notes: costs 9 END per Attack] 3 6 Four Arms: Extra Limbs (4), Inherent (+1/4) 0 8 Big and Heavy: Knockback Resistance -8m 0 94 Super-Tough Skin: Resistant Protection (25 PD/25 ED), Hardened (+1/4) 0 8 Rapid Healing: Regeneration (1 BODY per Hour) 0 20 Super-Strong Legs: Leaping +40m (44m forward, 22m upward) 2 7 Surprising Self-Control: Mental Defense (7 points total) 0 Powers Cost: 156 Cost Skill 16 +2 with HTH Combat 3 Breakfall 12- 3 Conversation 15- 2 KS: The Superhuman World 11- 3 Oratory 15- 3 Persuasion 15- 3 PS: TV Reporter 12- 5 Rapid Attack ; HTH Multiple Attacks Only (-1) 3 Stealth 12- 3 Tactics 11- Skills Cost: 44 Total Character Cost: 425 Val Disadvantages 20 Distinctive Features: 10-foot tall, 4- armed, green-skinned (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) 25 Enraged: Berserk If she takes BODY or gets Stunned from an Attack (Uncommon), go 11-, recover 11- 10 Physical Complication: Big And Heavy (is always 10 feet tall and weighs approximately 800 kg; +2 OCV for others to hit, +2 to PER Rolls for others to perceive (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing) 15 Psychological Complication: Split-Personality; (Common; Strong) 5 Unluck: 1d6 10 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect from Drains (Common) 15 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect from Fire Attacks (Very Common) Disadvantage Points: 100Base Points: 400Experience Required: 25Total Experience Available: 25Experience Unspent: 0 Gronda.hdc DreadDomain, Hermit, Spence and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Well since she beat me down I've been out doin' in my head Come too late at night and in the mornin' I just lay in bed Well, Gronda you look so fine (look so fine) And I know it wouldn't take much time For you to help me Gronda Help me get her out of my heart Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda yeah Get her out of my heart She was gonna steal my wife At least that was her plan But she let the police come between us And it shattered our man Well, Gronda you caught my eye (caught my eye) And I can give you lotsa reasons why You gotta help me Gronda Help me get her out of my heart Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda yeah Get her out of my heart Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda yeah Get her out of my heart Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda Help me Gronda Help, help me Gronda With apologies to the Beach Boys pawsplay, DShomshak, Hermit and 9 others 3 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segerge Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Great. Now I've got that in my head for the rest of the night... Spence and Amorkca 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 I don't think I've seen four arms done that way before--one set behind the other. It's an interesting idea, but I would think the rearmost set would need to be longer than the foremost to have any usefulness. Still, it's a wonderful job! Got a rate chart for your artist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 I thought that was the She-Grond. P.S. Why is She-Grond hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmastergm Posted April 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I don't think I've seen four arms done that way before--one set behind the other. It's an interesting idea, but I would think the rearmost set would need to be longer than the foremost to have any usefulness. Still, it's a wonderful job! Got a rate chart for your artist? You can find it here. 6 hours ago, Tjack said: I thought that was the She-Grond. P.S. Why is She-Grond hot? She's called Gronda in Haymaker #56. She's also described as such in her profile. Ray Lowery created her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted April 14, 2020 Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 1 hour ago, grandmastergm said: You can find it here. She's called Gronda in Haymaker #56. She's also described as such in her profile. Ray Lowery created her. 7 hours ago, Tjack said: I thought that was the She-Grond. P.S. Why is She-Grond hot? That answers the first part......but it’s the second part that’s keeping me awake and concerned at 2:30 in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 14, 2020 Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 21 hours ago, Tjack said: P.S. Why is She-Grond hot? Are you of the generation whose adolescent tastes might have been influenced by the green Orion slave girl from the Star Trek pilot? segerge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted April 14, 2020 Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Matt the Bruins said: Are you of the generation whose adolescent tastes might have been influenced by the green Orion slave girl from the Star Trek pilot? While I am that old, I think it’s more the cheesecake pics of She-Hulk from John Byrne and George Perez that warped my tiny impressionable little brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmastergm Posted April 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tjack said: While I am that old, I think it’s more the cheesecake pics of She-Hulk from John Byrne and George Perez that warped my tiny impressionable little brain. The original version was just Sheeva from Mortal Kombat colored green, but the covert art was closer to the she-hulk so we went with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 Sheeva's the direction I would have gone, personally. I don't know who did that pic of her on the side of the old MK3 cabinets, but it was _amazing_. Not only was it amazing, it was the inspiration for my character Armorine (as rendered by my brother John here: https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/002/044/375/large/john-stetzer-armorinedetailinga.jpg?1456435140 ) Super-cool take a a 4-armed she-brick. Still, I can't deny that the shoulders-behind-shoulders is probably more useful when balancing cars over your head or attempting to hurl an airplane at someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmastergm Posted April 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 11:33 PM, Duke Bushido said: Sheeva's the direction I would have gone, personally. I don't know who did that pic of her on the side of the old MK3 cabinets, but it was _amazing_. Not only was it amazing, it was the inspiration for my character Armorine (as rendered by my brother John here: https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/002/044/375/large/john-stetzer-armorinedetailinga.jpg?1456435140 ) Super-cool take a a 4-armed she-brick. Still, I can't deny that the shoulders-behind-shoulders is probably more useful when balancing cars over your head or attempting to hurl an airplane at someone. Log-Man did that version. The shoulders-behind-shoulders originated from some versions of Grond, so Taghuso used it for Gronda (he's an ex-Champions player). Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 What if Grond and Gronda;s conditions were contagious, If getting even a drop of Grond's blood or other fluids turned you into a Grond, it would be quite interesting -- not to mention an existential threat to civilization. Imagine having to face an army of Gronds and Grondas when just one of them is enough to keep a superhero team busy for days. Meanwhile, on the other hand, research is probably under way to find a "cure" so Grond isn't Grond anymore. Grond is not contributing to the research, because Grond doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about it. Besides, if he were to be de-Gronded he wouldn't be a brilliant medical scientist like Bruce Banner -- he'd just be a poor dumb thug with a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You'd still keep him in jail, though it will take much less effort to watch him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Grandmastergm for my four villain-named ahem Fourarms, I gave him a 10D6 N(I think he’s 50 STR) HtH AoE Accurate. Basically he strikes with all Four arms and at least one hits the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Oh and to make Gronda really nasty, the is a sample 4 armed martial art style in HSMA and a sample (though Heroic level/sci fi) character too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 His name is Sorrec and his art is called K’rova HSMA pg 236,237. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 The Mark Williams version of Grond (3e or 4e, I forget) had two torsos, one for each pair of arms. Had the artist gone with that style, I expect the extra chest would have raised more eyebrows than the one arm pair behind the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmastergm Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 20 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said: What if Grond and Gronda;s conditions were contagious, If getting even a drop of Grond's blood or other fluids turned you into a Grond, it would be quite interesting -- not to mention an existential threat to civilization. Imagine having to face an army of Gronds and Grondas when just one of them is enough to keep a superhero team busy for days. Meanwhile, on the other hand, research is probably under way to find a "cure" so Grond isn't Grond anymore. Grond is not contributing to the research, because Grond doesn't care. He probably doesn't even know about it. Besides, if he were to be de-Gronded he wouldn't be a brilliant medical scientist like Bruce Banner -- he'd just be a poor dumb thug with a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You'd still keep him in jail, though it will take much less effort to watch him. Yup, well there is a Doc Grond who is a PRIMUS Agent who played around and ended up like that, but kept his intelligence. And he's also looking for a cure for the condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 I confess to being the guilty party behind the Gronda (and Kid Grond) from Haymaker #56. She originated from a thread Hermit started about She-Grond / Grondette / Gronda (the name varied) with the name "Gronda" itself coming from some other poster to that long-ago thread (I don't recall who). I think my original writeup of her borrowed heavily from Grond's writeup at that time. But grandmastergm's writeup looks to be pretty solid. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 4:24 PM, Matt the Bruins said: Are you of the generation whose adolescent tastes might have been influenced by the green Orion slave girl from the Star Trek pilot? I thought that was because Susan Oliver was hot. And Yvonne Craig. Especially Yvonne craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmastergm Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 10:54 PM, BoloOfEarth said: I confess to being the guilty party behind the Gronda (and Kid Grond) from Haymaker #56. She originated from a thread Hermit started about She-Grond / Grondette / Gronda (the name varied) with the name "Gronda" itself coming from some other poster to that long-ago thread (I don't recall who). I think my original writeup of her borrowed heavily from Grond's writeup at that time. But grandmastergm's writeup looks to be pretty solid. Well done. Nice, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 On June 15, 2020 at 1:53 PM, Ockham's Spoon said: The Mark Williams version of Grond (3e or 4e, I forget) had two torsos, one for each pair of arms. Had the artist gone with that style, I expect the extra chest would have raised more eyebrows than the one arm pair behind the other. For no particular reason, other than general interest. The original version of Grond, as rendered by Mark Williams: I have never made a secret of the fact that Williams' art was one of the biggest attractions that drew me to Champions. I won't bore you with the stories and reasons (again), but despite the constant stream of negative comments it draws, it had incredible appeal to me. Anyway, this is how Grond looked in his first appearance: Enemies II, in 1982. For what it's worth, this is _not_ one of my favorite pieces of Williams' work, nor is it my favorite picture of Grond. I will state flat-out, however, that I _liked_ his decision to feature two thoracic spine sections, from which to hang two complete sets of shoulder blades, two complete sets of pectoral muscles, etc. I never did like that "flap o skin" that attaches one to the other-- well, let's not go into what I don't like here. Suffice it to say that I _liked_ the fact that he worked with biological structures that everyone immediately understood, not just because-- well, we immediately had answers to the questions that 4-armed characters invariably raise (how to the lower arms work?!) and because it was just _creepy_. Yes; Grond was supposed to be big and scary etc, but that disturbing centaur thing Williams did here added some serious creep factor (you have to imagine yourself bumping into this as a real living creature; not just as a character on a comic page, to really see the freak-out potential). It added extra creepiness in the implication of the elongated spine as well-- imagine him curling completely over you-- not just leaning, but twisting and pivoting those twelve extra vertebrae, and the snake-like upper body movement potential. You can even picture him relaxed, with the top portion of his spine rolled forward so that both sets of arms drape comfortably down, neither in the way of the other. Again, if I had one tenth of an ounce of talent, there are things I would have done differently, but I will never not applaud the serious freak-out body horror potential that Williams seized on and ran with. The first update for Grond's look came with 4e's Classic Enemies: This is my second least favorite picture of Grond. Not because the art isn't technically superior to Williams' work, but because what the Hell is going on with those extra arms?! The are growing directly out of his abdomen-- the front of his abdomen! Are we to accept that there is an entire skeletal superstructure where most other supervillians keep their intestines? Or is there no skeletal superstructure at all, and the muscles of the arms tie directly into the abdominal wall, providing no anchoring for the bones or the arm, meaning no real leverage? His waistband is in his armpits. That's gotta chafe a bit. Things that work: The lower arms are a bit smaller, to be less in the way of the upper arms. His proportions are more "attractive," in that he no longer has the elongated spine. Things that don't work: Right off the bat? There is _way_ too much personality in the face. I know-- it's a skill mark for an artist to be able to put personality, attitude-- life-- into a line drawing, and I congratulate them for that ability. There's smarmy sarcasm in that face. Grond doesn't have enough brains for smarmy sarcasm. The lower arms we've discussed, but I'd like to point out that the are growing straight out of his front. There is no way that they will ever not be in the way. His lower shoulders are completely in his upper armpits. Effectively, he has lost his scary because even though he has four arms, his range of motion is somewhat less than that of a triple-amputee tortoise. Better than I could do? Absolutely without question. Talented? Yes. But just an unworkable presentation of the concept. Worse, what _does_ work is wrong for the character. Grond got another new look with New Millennium: I'm not a huge fan of this picture. This is my "middle of the road" picture of Grond. I accept that the quality of the art itself is amazing, and there is definitely a rage vibe coming off the page, but it lacks something critical, at least _to me_. Not only does it lack this vital thing, but the entire picture is composed to hide that lack: The artist had no idea how to make two sets of shoulders work. And like Liefeld and feet, he felt the best option was to just hide the problem completely. There is a small smattering of Grond images throughout New Millennium. Every one of them is composed to hide the "and just how does that extra arms things work?" part of the character. Checking out the anatomy that _is_ visible, however, suggests that the artist didn't even attempt to wrestle with it: nothing in any visible structure suggests anything other than 'roided up normal human structures. This leads us to my favorite (with qualifiers) picture of Grond: Yes; that is Storn Cook's 5e drawing of Grond, and I absolutely love it. Now keep in mind that typically, I prefer the simplicity and the "looks like the comics of my youth (what scant few there were)" style of Mark Williams. But I _love_ this picture. First, there is so damned much _life_ in this picture! I know Storn is a phenomenal artist, but I gush over this picture more than anything else he's ever done for the life in it _alone_, before getting to anything about the character. I've never seen his portfolio, but if he doesn't have this image in it, he's missing a bet! Right off the bat, the very next thing-- after the sheer amount of energy captured here-- I noticed was the fact that he meticulously addressed the biology of the arms and shoulders The torso is high and cavernously oversized, there is a distinct stricture in the rib cage allowing for the shoulders and a direct transition to a wider support structure again for the next section of the rib cage. There is additional bone of tendon growth, heavy and powerful, to provide structural reinforcement for the shoulders, one set to the other, as all the shoulders are mounted on truncated rib structures The latisimus dorsal is duplicated as well, and the implied depth of the torso suggests the "upper" one spreads atop the lower one. The lower shoulders are narrow, and the arms are slightly-- not considerably, but noticeably-- smaller than the upper. Combined with the massively broad upper shoulders, it's clear that when at rest, neither set of arms and attendant hardware in any way impede the other. The pose shows that Grond might comfortably raise his lower arms to his sides, perhaps lace his fingers or fold his arms across his midsection, comfortably moving them entirely out of the way of his larger arms. Don't mistake the innovations Storn has going here-- even if he didn't do it consciously-- even if he just thought to himself "this feels more right" and never thought about the anatomical structures again, there was keen insight here into what works and what doesn't. Not only does this picture demonstrate a model that _works_, having made such tremendous adjustments to the torso itself and having paid such attention to the mechanical bits there has allowed Storn to provide an attractive, viscerally-acceptable model: This is the single most humaniform Grond offered in any edition, as well as being the most energetically exciting villain images offered throughout the entire series of this game from start to finish. I don't even care to much for Grond, but this picture _excites_ me! In fairness, I don't like the dinosaur head. I'm totally down with the idea that Grond's head has never really appeared monstrous enough, but going with the dinosaur head robs that horrifying "this was once a man" horror from him. I mean, it _totally_ works in this picture, and honestly it _adds_ to the image of a great mindless beast. But it also makes it a bit less horrifying by making it easier to accept "well, this _was_ a guy, but it's not anymore." Anyway, favorite picture of Grond, period. Take that New Millennium head, add just a bit more lost humanity to it, and graft it onto this picture-- well, you'd have committed a sacrilege from a pure-art perspective, but you'd have an extremely good take on the character, I think. I'd hate it because, while I don't think it's right for the character, the dinosaur head _is_ the perfect choice for Storn's take on the character. This gets me to my absolute _least_ favorite image of Grond: Here he is' he's just a big happy doofus.... Yeah. That seems right. yes; I know it's from a video game, but _still_! Go with any picture from 6e, really. I'd have to upload the one from the book, so let's just pull another one from the game: This picture (from the game, but you'll find the same problem in every 6e image of him) is just like the New Millennium image: every single image of him is composed to allow the artist to completely ignore the anatomical problems. The best thing I can say about the 6e look is that the artist for the image in the Villains book revisited Williams' elongated spine and draws him slumping heavily forward, allowing his upper arms to dangle in front of his lower ones. But still, the actual anatomy is not addressed, and pretty much _every_ image of him from book or game gives the impression that these arms just sort of sprout through his ribs and are anchored loosely in his kidneys...... Five images. Five artists. Three of them tackled the anatomy-- don't tell me you aren't interested in the anatomy! You are all the same people that have to have a two-page discussion on if wallpapering the headquarters is a Transform or a limited form of Armor, how much it should cost, and who should have to pay for it. Don't tell me the anatomy is of no interest to _any_ group (myself included; I'm here) that compulsively anal. Don't try it. The second guy flubbed it, but I give him props for doing more than at least two of the other guys. The first guy made something truly horrifying, from whole cloth, but his technical skills didn't give him the finesse to really shock you with it: you had to study it, put it in front of you in the real world to appreciate how disturbing it was. The forth guy-- he blew me away. Hopefully he blew _all_ of you away! He created something that was believable, complex, and beautiful all in one shot. It's absolutely incredible. The best thing that could have done for 6e was to colorize Storn's picture. On June 15, 2020 at 5:46 AM, Ninja-Bear said: Oh and to make Gronda really nasty, the is a sample 4 armed martial art style in HSMA and a sample (though Heroic level/sci fi) character too! On June 15, 2020 at 5:51 AM, Ninja-Bear said: His name is Sorrec and his art is called K’rova HSMA pg 236,237. It took me _days_ to figure out that these two comments went together! I'll be glad when the July 4 shutdown gets here! Ockham's Spoon, Steve, drunkonduty and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Sorry about that Duke! Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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