What are the typical starting point/power levels these days?

[Panpiper]

I have been away from Hero for so long, I had forgotten even whether we needed to roll high or low to hit. I probably need to dig my rule books out from storage and do a whole reread. What I like doing best though is building characters, and especially, creating write ups for them. My Hero Designer still works just fine, and rather than spend an hour just looking for the books and then days rereading, I'm hoping one or more sympathetic souls will just write a short response sufficient to give me some basic guidelines, so I can quickly get to the fun part.

 

How many points do you typically start new characters at? Teen superheros maybe? Do you enforce hard caps on active points in any given power, if so, what caps?

[BigJackBrass]

Point totals jumped due to the changes in sixth edition, so this is an "it depends" question. Which edition are you using? 

[Panpiper]

I'm using sixth edition. I prefer the earlier ones, but I suspect more people playing are using the sixth. I did get invited to play in a Play By Post game and there the GM has stipulated characters starting with 300 points, including 50 in complications. That is a game of teen supers however, just coming into their powers. Having already started in that game with one character, it seems redundant to build another one for just that, but for now I figure if other people start with more points, a character I build initially with 300 will be able to easily grow into it. So the one I am working on right now is 300 points and I've got 100 points of very character appropriate complications down for her.

[IndianaJoe3]

I think 300/60 is a good level, especially for new players. It's enough points to build the core of most concepts, but the players will need to focus on what's important to them.

[Ninja-Bear]

For the most part 300 CP is equivalent to the old 250 starting points of 4th ed.  

[fdw3773]

I use 6th Edition rules from Champions Complete. Instead of running a campaign, I host sessions at game conventions and RPG charity events where players select a pre-generated character from the DC or Marvel Universe for a scenario. The scenario is designed so that characters from different universes can participate in the same adventure.

 

In terms of points, I follow the general guidelines in the Champions Complete rules. Here's a quick run-down and examples of characters I've developed using those general benchmarks:

 

300 CPs = Low-powered/Youthful/Street level heroes (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Huntress from Justice League, Beast Boy from Teen Titans, Jubilee from X-Men)

400 CPs = Standard Heroes (Cyclops and Beast from X-Men)

500 CPs = High Powered Heroes (Captain America, Power Girl, Colossus, Rogue)

600 CPs = Extremely Powerful Heroes (Batman, Green Lantern, Storm, Wonder Woman)

750 CPs = Cosmically Powerful Heroes (Superman)

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Bastille]

In the 6e books, it gives a range on def/rdef for characters based on points or level of the character.  For example, the low powered super heroic (300 points) shows 12-15/6-10.  My question is, and it may sound newbish, does the 12-15 range include the 6-10 resistant defenses or is the total defense range a combination of the two (18-25)?

[JmOz]

On 5/23/2020 at 4:30 PM, fdw3773 said:

I use 6th Edition rules from Champions Complete. Instead of running a campaign, I host sessions at game conventions and RPG charity events where players select a pre-generated character from the DC or Marvel Universe for a scenario. The scenario is designed so that characters from different universes can participate in the same adventure.

 

In terms of points, I follow the general guidelines in the Champions Complete rules. Here's a quick run-down and examples of characters I've developed using those general benchmarks:

 

300 CPs = Low-powered/Youthful/Street level heroes (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Huntress from Justice League, Beast Boy from Teen Titans, Jubilee from X-Men)

400 CPs = Standard Heroes (Cyclops and Beast from X-Men)

500 CPs = High Powered Heroes (Captain America, Power Girl, Colossus, Rogue)

600 CPs = Extremely Powerful Heroes (Batman, Green Lantern, Storm, Wonder Woman)

750 CPs = Cosmically Powerful Heroes (Superman)

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

 

Strange trivia, when I pointed up the JLA a number of years ago the character who was the most powerful was Aquaman...Just felt like letting you know

[Panpiper]

5 hours ago, Bastille said:

In the 6e books, it gives a range on def/rdef for characters based on points or level of the character.  For example, the low powered super heroic (300 points) shows 12-15/6-10.  My question is, and it may sound newbish, does the 12-15 range include the 6-10 resistant defenses or is the total defense range a combination of the two (18-25)?

 

Personally I would consider a 300 point super with 'only' 15 PD/ED to be 'extremely' fragile. I am pretty sure therefor that those numbers are individual suggestions. Frankly I wouldn't create a 300 point super that had less than 13 resistant PD/ED and a total of 'at least' 21/21. That would not be my character max, that would be my 'minimum'! A character needs sufficient constitution and defense (combined) to 'not' be stunned by an average attack, and then some. Either that or they need an exceptionally high DCV and sufficient speed to afford to abort fairly frequently. My opinion anyway.

[JmOz]

1 hour ago, Panpiper said:

 

Personally I would consider a 300 point super with 'only' 15 PD/ED to be 'extremely' fragile. I am pretty sure therefor that those numbers are individual suggestions. Frankly I wouldn't create a 300 point super that had less than 13 resistant PD/ED and a total of 'at least' 21/21. That would not be my character max, that would be my 'minimum'! A character needs sufficient constitution and defense (combined) to 'not' be stunned by an average attack, and then some. Either that or they need an exceptionally high DCV and sufficient speed to afford to abort fairly frequently. My opinion anyway.

Fair to say that it is a different feel.  The lower defenses make combat more dangerous (duh!!!), while higher defenses make for a more drawn out combat.  Both can be genre  appropriate...  (I aim for a 2.5*DC personaly)

 

[Ninja-Bear]

4 hours ago, Panpiper said:

 

Personally I would consider a 300 point super with 'only' 15 PD/ED to be 'extremely' fragile. I am pretty sure therefor that those numbers are individual suggestions. Frankly I wouldn't create a 300 point super that had less than 13 resistant PD/ED and a total of 'at least' 21/21. That would not be my character max, that would be my 'minimum'! A character needs sufficient constitution and defense (combined) to 'not' be stunned by an average attack, and then some. Either that or they need an exceptionally high DCV and sufficient speed to afford to abort fairly frequently. My opinion anyway.

That’s a big depends on game/villains.  I think I’ve only had one character (4th ed) that has higher than 10 rPD. We did learn a lesson that not having any resistant defenses is bad even for a ninja. So Shadow was given 5rPD/5rED armor.  

[Ninja-Bear]

Oh another point. I think because we now use the term low-powered, the thought is that the DC of characters are lower than Standard. And that doesn’t have to be the case. You can build characters in typical range with 300 pts. You just have a more limited Power/Skill set.

[fdw3773]

7 hours ago, JmOz said:

 

Strange trivia, when I pointed up the JLA a number of years ago the character who was the most powerful was Aquaman...Just felt like letting you know

The power level of any character really is up to the GM, just as how powerful that character is portrayed in the comics is up to the writer. For example, I once came across a fan's Champions write-up for the Grant Morrison version of Batman and it was somewhere around 1,000 points (I can't recall for which edition).

 

Aquaman could easily be considered a powerful hero given that his physical strength, skin, and bone density are able to survive the high pressure depths of the ocean and has advanced senses from being able to see in the darkest of seas. Add in the powers from wielding the Trident of Poseidon, and he could potentially rank up there. I've only read a couple dozen JLA and related issues from the different time periods (early to mid 1980s, early 1990s, and early 2000s) but saw how Aquaman's power level varied from writer to writer, just like he will vary from GM to GM's interpretation from comics, movies, TV shows, and conversions from other game systems like Mayfair's DC Heroes and Green Ronin's DC Adventures.😉

 

 

[JmOz]

It was the aquatic telepathy and perks (King of Atlantis) this was during the Peter David years IIRC

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Fdw3773 I know about the 1000 Pt Batman. I believe that a big chunk of those points where allotted for vehicles and such but his actual stats for fighting weren’t outrageous.

[Sketchpad]

7 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

For example, I once came across a fan's Champions write-up for the Grant Morrison version of Batman and it was somewhere around 1,000 points (I can't recall for which edition).

 

See, this is why I miss the Mastermind Option (see below) from Champions II. When I was running Champions 4e, I allowed occasionally allowed skilled heroes to take it. Made it easier for some characters who were supposed to be the "Billionaire Playboy/girl" type of heroes. 

 

Quote

Villains may choose to employ the mastermind option: pay 50 points (not subject to Multipower, Elemental Control, or any Limitation whatsoever) and get an amount equivalent to your own character points to build bases with. A villain built on 300 points, with 50 points spent on the mastermind option, would get 300 points to build bases. Every Experience Point he gets gives him another point for his base.
The mastermind option is not open to player characters except with the explicit permission of the GM. The GM should make sure that everyone, player character or non-player character, uses the mastermind option carefully, not overspending the points on enormous weapons or killer robots.

 

[Tech]

Sketchpad, our campaign still uses the Mastermind Option for creating superhero bases.

[JmOz]

I found a good compromise was to merge Vehicles, bases, Follower for use with the +5 for x2 Rule.  Batman buys one 400 point resourse (80 points) x16, all of a suddenly he has a fleet of vehicles, bases and followers

 

You can also be a bit cheeky and build your base, then include a summon vehicles inside of it...any GM who is not cautious about this deserves what they get....

 

[Brian Stanfield]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:17 AM, Panpiper said:

I have been away from Hero for so long, I had forgotten even whether we needed to roll high or low to hit. I probably need to dig my rule books out from storage and do a whole reread. What I like doing best though is building characters, and especially, creating write ups for them. My Hero Designer still works just fine, and rather than spend an hour just looking for the books and then days rereading, I'm hoping one or more sympathetic souls will just write a short response sufficient to give me some basic guidelines, so I can quickly get to the fun part.

 

How many points do you typically start new characters at? Teen superheros maybe? Do you enforce hard caps on active points in any given power, if so, what caps?

 

There are going to be a lot of Champions games offered at Origins Online this year, which I think is free. You should consider joining up in a couple of them from different GMs to get a feel for what people are doing these days. It really helped me a few years back when I got back into gaming after a very long hiatus like you.

[phydaux]

For 6th I give players 400 CP, which includes 50 from Disadds

[Panpiper]

11 hours ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

There are going to be a lot of Champions games offered at Origins Online this year, which I think is free. You should consider joining up in a couple of them from different GMs to get a feel for what people are doing these days. It really helped me a few years back when I got back into gaming after a very long hiatus like you.

 

I'd rather leave the seat open for someone fresh to Hero, so maybe we can gain another convert. We need the new blood. I am already sold. 😉

 

I sure would like to know their build house rules though.

[Sketchpad]

On 6/10/2020 at 8:13 AM, Tech said:

Sketchpad, our campaign still uses the Mastermind Option for creating superhero bases.

 

How well does it hold up, Tech? Any mods that you've been applying to it?

[Tech]

The Mastermind Option works very well. We use it as is but for superhero bases. Never had a problem with game balance.