Implications of no free recovery

[Tywyll]

So, as I understand it, RAW when you take a recovery you can't spend END so your powers shut down.

 

That means it's impossible for characters to do the usual super trope of being on patrol/traveling long distances/etc with their powers active. Powers are short-lived things.

 

I saw someone had a build with a character that was paralysed from the waist down but had flight, so assumedly flew around as a super. But...by the rules, they'd have to drop down and take a breather every few rounds which seems...weirdly unheroic.

 

Or does the game account for this in some way I've missed?

[pawsplay]

Well, let's assume you did get a free recovery. It wouldn't matter because there are no Phases or initiative.

[nitrosyncretic]

Good point, Pawsplay. Is there reason to believe that the phase mechanic applies when one isn't in combat?

[assault]

With movement, at least, it's worth distinguishing between strategic and tactical levels.

 

Endurance tracking is mostly relevant to the tactical level.

 

The difference is between travelling to Tierra del Fuego, and the fight you have when you get there.

[assault]

21 hours ago, Tywyll said:

I saw someone had a build with a character that was paralysed from the waist down but had flight, so assumedly flew around as a super. But...by the rules, they'd have to drop down and take a breather every few rounds which seems...weirdly unheroic.

 

A glitch in the character design if that wasn't what the player intended, but perfectly OK for some characters.

 

Maybe the character can only leave their wheelchair, or whatever, for a few moments at a time.

[Tywyll]

14 minutes ago, assault said:

With movement, at least, it's worth distinguishing between strategic and tactical levels.

 

Endurance tracking is mostly relevant to the tactical level.

 

The difference is between travelling to Tierra del Fuego, and the fight you have when you get there.

 

Is that the case though, or is that an assumption? I've not seen anything to that effect in the rules. The rules do have a page about figuring out your mph and I assumed that was for helping figure out long distance travel.

 

I mean, I'm happy if that is the case but it seems a weird disconnect.

[Tywyll]

8 hours ago, nitrosyncretic said:

Good point, Pawsplay. Is there reason to believe that the phase mechanic applies when one isn't in combat?

 

Is there a reason to believe it doesn't? 

 

Not trying to sound shirty or anything, genuine question.

[nitrosyncretic]

I think one way to read p.172 is that segments only need to be applied once combat starts. I don't know if that's the actual intent, I'm just making a suggestion.

 

Also, I just remembered something that is explicit, at least in the case of long distance travel -- the expanded scope advantage allows one to convert 10 hexes of flight into, for example, interstellar travel, which would then still cost only 2 endurance per use.

[Grailknight]

Deleted for wrong forum, was answering pertaining to base HERO.

[Tywyll]

4 hours ago, nitrosyncretic said:

I think one way to read p.172 is that segments only need to be applied once combat starts. I don't know if that's the actual intent, I'm just making a suggestion.

 

Also, I just remembered something that is explicit, at least in the case of long distance travel -- the expanded scope advantage allows one to convert 10 hexes of flight into, for example, interstellar travel, which would then still cost only 2 endurance per use.

 

I am aware of the expanded scope, but that seems to be a matter of 'zip' I'm in the next city instantly, like a speedster. Not really the causal patrol flight/run/swinging. 

[nitrosyncretic]

The author just confirmed to me that you don't have to keep track of endurance, recoveries, or segmented action outside of combat.

[nitrosyncretic]

2 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

 

I am aware of the expanded scope, but that seems to be a matter of 'zip' I'm in the next city instantly, like a speedster. Not really the causal patrol flight/run/swinging. 

 

How expanded scope works for your particular hero depends on how the special effects are defined. For a speedster like the Flash, it might be zip! For Spidey, it might involve swinging across the length of greater New York in just enough time to get somewhere.

 

Ron often suggests thinking in terms of panels on a comic book page when dealing with this sort of thing. It's not about miles per hour, it's how many panels from here to there.

[nitrosyncretic]

Champions Now is a set of rules for creating superhero comic book adventures in roleplaying in the way they emerged in the comics of the 60s and 70s. It is not a universal system or an attempt to codify the fictional reality in points. This is the divergence between Champions Now and Hero System.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I would go further and simply say that END completely recovers between fights. I am assuming that after a fight anyone, including a superhero, takes some time to catch their breath, re-hydrate and/or eat when possible, and do whatever they normally do to get back up to speed physically.

 

Think of it as the halftime break or post-game recovery of athletes who exert great energy during a match and at a certain point are send back to their locker rooms to rest, replenish their fluids (and some probably take the opportunity to take a bathroom break), and replenish their energy for the second half. After the game is over, they players get a chance to shower, change into street clothes, and so forth. Professional teams usually provide a post-game meal, because a player in a team sport expends a lot of energy. During a match, of course, players will take recoveries on the bench (or on the field in some sports) in most team sports quite frequently. And in their years playing the sport they will have learned how to manage their energy. Likewise, energy management is one of the first things an effective superhero learns. They may easily exhaust themselves in a fight but they are almost always ready for the next one.

[pawsplay]

On 5/22/2020 at 1:17 AM, Tywyll said:

 

Is there a reason to believe it doesn't? 

 

Not trying to sound shirty or anything, genuine question.

 

Yeah. The book outright states movement speeds are combat speeds, not traveling speeds.

EDIT: See Space and Time, starting on page 22.

[unclevlad]

Remember too, that as long as your END use per turn, with your Movement, is < your Recovery, you're just in Long Term END rules in regular Hero.  The cost is a temporary reduction in your END stat.  Plus:  you can always reduce your SPD.  

 

So if I'm buying Flight, with either my HiScale advantage (works like MegaScale, but for +1/4 to +3/4, you get x5, x15, and x50 movements) or a x8 or x16 adder...IOW, when I'm talking buying a significant velocity, I'll usually throw in 1/2 END, cuz getting that END cost down to 2 per phase is likely to mean I can move fast and not really worry about LTE rules.

 

And given that LTE is optional anyway...I think Ron's point is it's not worth the trouble.  His view on END is "I only want to worry about it when I have to worry about it."  The standard post-12 is really an outlier...why have it?  Action doesn't end.  You can start an extra-phase action on 12, and it continues on smoothly past the end of turn to whenever your next phase is.  ESPECIALLY in 6E with END costs being so reduced, you can readily ditch it, I'd think.  So Ron did.  

Flip side:  if the GM wants to consider fatigue, go for it.  The opening scene in Marion G. Harmon's Small Town Heroes (in the Wearing the Cape series) has the lead character helping in a massive flood situation, by flying 10-ton concrete barricades into position to create flood barriers.  In VERY high winds, which makes flying that much trickier.  In COLD! sleeting rain.  Yeah...I'd say that fatigue's legit there....