bwdemon

Re: SPD and DEX for superheroic martial artists? Been a long time since I last saw Enemies If I blow up a balloon, it's inflated. Whether or not I put more air into it, it's still inflated. Assuming no air escapes and the material holds up, it can remain inflated, at the same size, perpetually. It's still inflated. In other words, inflation isn't something that has to continue increasing over time. It's something that can happen at some point and never go back down. SPD and DEX were inflated heavily early in the game's construction and they haven't gone down yet. They remain inflated to this day. If you want to build characters for the Champions setting, you have to pay a tax on your character equal to the degree of inflation or else you fall way behind the power curve of the game. Think about someone like Cyclops. Outside of his eye-blasts, he's just a well-trained normal. He doesn't have physical abilities that put him above, say, a special forces soldier. He's no stronger or faster, no better trained. He should fit under NCM for everything other than his eye-blasts. I don't think the comics have ever (with any consistency, anyway) depicted this otherwise. That isn't the only example, but it makes it very easy to illustrate the concept. Most characters who lack physical powers are no faster or more agile than their normal counterparts. An Olympic gymnast in the comics will be significantly more agile than the host of non-agility-based heroes. In DC Comics, Batman isn't someone who would shame Olympic gymnasts, he's an Olympic-level gymnast (even if gold medal level), and should be statted accordingly. At least one normal human lives who is better than him. He's phenomenal for a human, but he's still human. Champions forgot about that in building its original setting and has maintained that forgetfulness over the years. Now it's an institution: the average non-physically-powered superhero is both faster than NCM and more agile than NCM. It was inflated early on and it remains inflated today. If you want to use the characters from the Champions Universe for your game, you have to inflate your characters similarly or they won't work out well. If you don't want to go that route, you can do away with the inflation and save a ton of points on characters. Or you can accept that every superhero is agile and fast to a mind-boggling degree, regardless of their power set. Your game is your game and you should enjoy it.

Re: SPD and DEX for superheroic martial artists? It wasn't inflation from edition to edition. It's institutionalized inflation from the very beginning. As a side question, who was the 35/7 DEX character from 1st edition? I think I remember a 30/7 character, but not a 35 until the later editions?

Re: SPD and DEX for superheroic martial artists? When NCM says "20 DEX, 4 SPD" and the baseline character has "23 DEX, 5 SPD" then you're looking at inflation. It's artificially increased to make heroes faster and more combat-capable than agents and the like. From the past threads, I can't recall too many people arguing that it wasn't inflation, only that they didn't mind it.

Re: SPD and DEX for superheroic martial artists? The Champions Universe is built with significant DEX & SPD inflation. Characters with no reason to be out of the norm outpace NCM regularly in both DEX and SPD. If you want to build your martial artists for the Champions Universe setting, then you'll want a SPD of 6-7, with some rare few going as high as 8. It's the tax you have to pay to keep up with the rest of the setting. DEX could fall between 24 and 35, depending on the build. If you want to build more realistically, then 3-4 SPD is what you want to look at, with some rare characters going up to 5. DEX could be between 15 and 24.

Re: What would your inner geek pick? Healing, possibly with Immortality/Regeneration for myself, but Healing would be the key power choice.

Re: Needed for Champions What do you really need to run Champions? If you've got my group, then you start with an old priest and a young priest...

Re: How do you keep your dark knights from going "squish"? Rep for having a longtime character that can actually take BODY from the average 18d6 normal attack...

Re: Best Avengers Group Most Powerful: Mighty Avengers Personal Favorite: Ultimates

Re: All Of Them Damn Martial Bricks In a heartbeat! Regardless of the game, I've got a lot of characters I'd like to play, so picking one from the bunch is pretty easy and it prevents me from encroaching on other players' builds. That said, I don't mind a little friendly rivalry, so long as the characters have significant concept, background, and/or statistical differences. If I really want to play a specific character and someone else wants to play a similar build, then I'll talk it over with them. If they are adamant about using their build, I would probably use another build or at least tailor my build to do things differently than theirs. Like others have said, it is the GMs responsibility to express the scope of the game. Still, in a superhero game, most players would expect flying ranged threats on occasion, so the PCs seem more at fault here than the GM. Fault isn't of much consequence, though, and it couldn't hurt to offer the opportunity to replace or redesign the characters for more versatility. SIDE NOTE: Sometimes, you play games and make characters just for the fights. If they want to have martial brick bashes, then maybe schedule an occasional superhuman fighting league session. No real plot, just lots of fighting and throwing things around. You can set up a ladder or bracket system if you want, but this is really just to let the players make their combat monsters and get that out of their system. Let them make and use as many characters as they want, so they experience a wider range of abilities and maybe this will encourage them to branch out in the campaign game.

Re: Phase 12, GM's what do you allow? I like to start on Segment 12, but I don't like the PS12 Recovery mechanic (even though every game I've played in or run used it). Remove the free recovery and I think I'd like it a bit more. Characters would have to take breathers from time to time, rather than enjoying a free pick-me-up every 12 seconds.

Re: How do you keep your dark knights from going "squish"? The low defense characters (speedsters or dark knights or whatever) usually have staggering DCVs to make up for their low defenses. I would caution anyone against ignoring this. They just chose to go the "don't get hit" route instead of the "take a hit" route and that was their choice. They spent their points, just like the high-defense characters did, and they shouldn't receive any coddling for it. While the high-defense target has to worry about being nailed with NNDs whenever they pop up, the low-defenses target has to worry about accurate/area attacks whenever they pop up. It's all part of the deal.

Re: All Of Them Damn Martial Bricks See my last sentence, just above your post...

Re: All Of Them Damn Martial Bricks It's the equivalent of making a character who is absolutely amazing with a chosen weapon. As long as the character has that weapon and is faced with challenges solvable by application of that weapon, then they're an unbeatable force of nature. As soon as the character loses the weapon or faces a challenge outside their realm of expertise, they become incompetent. The Martial Brick Squad gets their heads handed to them when aren't allowed to use their weapons. In this case, flying ranged attackers pretty much neuter their offensive capabilities. Is this a big deal? Maybe. If the GM ran for a group of characters with low ECVs and no Mental Defense, then proceeded to send waves of bathroom mentalists at them, is the impending loss the players' fault or the GM's? The players knowingly went with limited, but point-efficient designs, choosing homogenous designs over gap-filling. The GM knows the characters, so he knew this would go against their weaknesses. Now, what's the difference between mind-controlling enemies and flying/ranged enemies? Comics have generally taught us that the former are more rare than the latter, but that's meaningless really. What matters is that the players are facing threats they weren't designed to handle. Is it the players' fault or the GM's or is it just one of those things they're going to have to learn to deal with? My solution to the whole mess is to say flat-out to the players, "You will face a wide variety of challenges - as wide as I can create given the tools offered by the HERO system - prepare your team accordingly." Then, I'd allow the players to discuss their character ideas amongst each other, before allowing everyone to rebuild/replace their current design. Regarding Damage Reduction, it looks like Damage Reduction isn't figured into defensive AP in this game. So you hit max defensive AP (or just max defense in many games), then you add on Damage Reduction. If there isn't a max defensive AP, then I agree that DR isn't particularly efficient, but HERO players generally combine the two and I rarely see GMs put a leash on this.

Re: All Of Them Damn Martial Bricks Your players have all gone the power gaming route... 1. High STR, because it's really efficient! (downside: no range) 2. Martial Arts, because it's really efficient and stacks with STR! (downside: no range) 3. Damage Reduction, because it's insanely efficient! (downside: none, which is why I don't allow it in any game unless absolutely appropriate - usually with a -2 limitation like "only vs. fire") 4. Hole-Filling Limited Ranged Attacks, because why pay full price for something you aren't going to use all the time? (downside: that dirty feeling that just doesn't go away, no matter how much you wash) I honestly wouldn't play in the game, but that's me.

Re: What does YOUR underground mutant organization do when:

Re: Batman is dead It sounds like a "You're the supporting cast for my awesome NPC!" type of game. Make absolutely sure the players are interested in being in that position.

Re: [Just for Fun] "Aging" Heroes Strangely enough, wouldn't Punisher fit right into the Golden Age? Plenty of heroes at that time carried and used guns. He'd probably wear a suit and an overcoat, carry a .45 (maybe two) and a BAR or Thompson. Mob killed his family? That still fits, too.

Re: How do you keep your dark knights from going "squish"?

Re: Munchkin powers on legal active point costs AVLDs, NND+Does BODY, Area Effect with other advantages, Uncontrolled Continuous effects, Damage Shields... all of those are the sorts of things where HERO fails as a system to adequately reflect the impact of the power. Legitimate concept? Sure! It'll be disproportionately powerful, but it can still be legitimate. That doesn't mean that all legitimate concepts should be allowed in any game.

Re: Munchkin powers on legal active point costs I think one of the safest ways to avoid issues like this is to put a hard cap of +1 on power advantages. It also prevents the ghetto workaround builds (e.g. using EB, Based on ECV, Does Body instead of Ego Attack, Does Body). Alternately, why doesn't the system just impose advantages individually? It'd solve the workarounds and balance things out a bit...

Re: The artwork drives me nuts I bought VVV at Origins and, for the first time I can remember, I felt like my joy for the system and its products had died a bit. I don't think it was the subject matter, since I've always loved books filled with characters and have bought and enjoyed similar products for other games recently. The art might have something to do with it, but I can't say for sure. If not the art, then I have no idea what it could be. All I know is that I give the book a resounding "meh" I plan to give NOTW a shot to see if it's still got any pull for me, but if VVV is any indication...

Re: Dumbest thing... Cable and all the plotlines and characters he dragged in...

Re: Hulk vs Superman 150,000,000,000 tons lifted... Shatter an asteroid twice the size of Earth with a single punch... Staggering regenerative powers... The Hulk's a lot more powerful than people seem to give him credit for. Plus, Supes had problems with another regenerating brick of lesser ability (IMHO) not so long ago. No, the Hulk can't move planets, generally speaking, because if he puts his hands on the ground and pushes, all he'll get out of it is a handstand or maybe he pushes himself into a clumsy leap. He doesn't have flight helping him move things the direction he wants. In the end, as always, it'll come down to whose name is at the top of the comic. The power of the pen trumps all...

Re: Another Brick in the Wall (Tell me about your Brick!) What was your favorite Brick? Magni, Norse God of Strength, Son of Thor and the giantess Jarnsaxa. I'm currently playing him in an M&M campaign. What was your most fun brick and why? Magni again. You get the mystical norse thing going and the viking thing with brick abilities - and he's a GOD! He's just all sorts of fun to roleplay. I played his personality somewhere between Marvel's Hercules and Ultimate Thor. What was your most powerful Brick? Yet again, Magni. I generally prefer low-mid powered characters, but Magni is the first brick PC I've used in a high-powered game. What is the most unusual Brick you have played or seen played? Sandman! Some guy's robbing a bank and calling himself Sandman. I immediately assume that he's a Marvel Sandman clone, but I figured my speedster could handle him. I went with multiple move-bys and discovered that he was called Sandman due to his END Drain Damage Shield. Oh so sleepy...

Re: Bricks Get Hosed, Or Not A look at the restrictions imposed on a game and at the characters in the game will tell you where any problems lie. One of the most common problems is that everyone (or almost everyone) hits the AP cap in damage, but not everyone has the same SPD or OCV. The character who has the highest Attack + SPD + OCV values will be the most effective offensively. Setting a base SPD of 5 or 6 and allowing +2 DC for every -1 SPD while enforcing -2 DC for every +1 SPD can help (it also pretty much prohibits double-digit SPD). The next is the ability to project damage. If you have a half-move of 4" or 5" and no ranged attack, you will be in for a long day. Combine that with a low-to-middling SPD and you may spend most of your time performing full moves on the outside chance at causing damage. If you've got a ranged attack or a lot of movement, then you don't worry about these things. This can be mitigated by fighting in a "phone booth" setting, but it remains a problem elsewhere. Yes, bricks can pick up and throw things, but some have greater respect for property than others (most heroes probably should). You either need lots of abandoned high-DEF property around for throwing purposes or a very small setting to even out the ability to project damage. Offensively, Bricks tend to have low base CV, AP-cap damage, minimal movement, and low SPD. They have fewer opportunities to project damage in any given turn and it can be more difficult for them to hit, assuming they can make it to a target. This is not an absolute, but rather the stereotypical Brick. Defensively, bricks tend to have low CVs, high defenses, high resistant defenses, and (sometimes) hardened defenses. They'll get hit, but they can take it as well as any other character and often better. Again, though, watch for situations where every character can take the same sort of hits due to game limits. However, Bricks tend to have more STUN than other stereotypes, so they can take more damage. This is important, because they will take more damage (they're easy to hit and look dangerous) and they'll need it to stay awake throughout a battle. As mentioned above, most don't get the benefit of Elemental Controls. Those that do will often have more variety than those that don't, but they'll still have to deal with AP caps. They're more likely to dump some points into Brick Tricks MPs or harden all their defenses or whatever. Still, they're restricted by AP caps and they won't have the same ability or opportunity to project damage. Next, think about Flexibility. Few bricks have the same sort of flexibility as the multipower-wielding counterparts. The swiss army knife of HERO, the multipower allows a character to switch from ineffective attacks to effective attacks with no more than a thought. The bigger the multipower, the less likely the character will get caught in a situation where they can't harm a target. Brick Tricks are good multipower fodder, but rarely as varied as the typical energy projector. Now, what about the Flying Brick and Brickster builds? They have a better ability to project damage, but also pay for that out of their other abilities. They probably can't rely on an EC to keep the cost down either, so it'll cost dearly. Still, it'll be more effective in combat if only due to the increase ability and/or opportunity to cause damage in any given turn. Instead of saying "STR is too cheap!" look at what each character can do every round. Look at OCV, SPD, DC, range, movement, and flexibility. These will show you who holds the most offensive power in the game. Then look at DCV, STUN, SPD, movement, defenses, and the improvements to those defenses. Those will tell you who has the greatest defensive power in the game. Due to the bell curve, CV is extremely important, though not quite as important as SPD and the ability to project damage (movement and/or range).