Ninja-Bear

On the drive to work I was thinking that the tree trick might be a training scene. So for that, that could just be a Hero point spent.

So… you don’t allow Super Stealth? Invisibility vs Hearing or Super Climbing? Clinging Power? And I never automatic neither. I said Aid (which is never absolute which is why the Martial books usually suggest it) to bolster a die roll to help eliminate low rolls. But then what’s the difference because as you say, buy up enough Killing DC and the law of Large numbers should eliminate missing a roll. I offered a different way to achieve what YOU are suggesting. So if I’m wrong then so are you.

@Rich McGee, I see on the Internet that (at some point) that Battletech added the idea of what can be customized on a Mech and where. So certain modifications can be made in the field and the more extensive ones has to have a factory. So a nice compromise is that a group might play Merc and in the Periphery so your options are limited compared to just using the Construction Rules. I think that’s a great!

I too am staying with 3rd. I just saw it that they had a thread going on about the changes from 3rd to 4th and that one caught my eye.

@tkdguydid you see that in 4th for BF, Sleep gets bumped up to HD of 4D+1 so you can Sleep an Ogre, iirc.

@Rich McGee, I’m sure that any point system isn’t 100% accurate. Even Hero System it point costs get argued over their values. Back in the day we played giant robots smash each other too and it ‘s fun. But looking at mech builds, even though I probably won’t play combined arms type game, I now appreciate certain builds that fill in a certain role. I’m glad now that MG are a threat to infantry and PPC not as much. I would like to play a game with design quirks sometime. At a more Meta level though this reminds me of a problem that any game can have. In Hero if one character is built to include skills and another doesn’t and the GM runs a game that don’t make taking the skills worth it. Who’s the better character? Btw, I have Mechwarrior 1st Ed. Let’s roll up lances based on those tables. An Urbanmech comes up way too often for my tastes! 😂

@Rich McGee, I think some of the charm of 3025 is make the best with what you got. I got one friend who when I play next is 3025 only and only canon mechs or variants. Another who want to jump into Clan and Customization. (We got out of it when the Clans hit. I do hear the Point system has helped smooth some of it out). I’ll play with the Clan friend but if he wants to cheese then I’m looking on how to cheese. Even if I have to play Clan myself.

@Rich McGee and @Duke Bushido and anyone else, did you guys design you own Battlemechs? Or at least customize them? I find that building your own that fits into 3025 era (starting) has a certain feel and is similar to building a good character.

What happened @tkdguy to the party? I find if I run a test Solo, the party fares badly but when ran with other players, it goes good. I do know that the D20 is fickle. My older son talked my wife into picking me up for Christmas the D&D Wilderness Screen. It’s not half bad. Some Dry erase maps and more importantly Condition Cards. My nephew gave me Condition Rings last year for Christmas. (And I use those in other games too.) I’m just going to use a mash of BF & 5e moving forward.

Oh so it’s D&D then! 😁 I’ll dodge now!

That’s the problem-on average. I suggest the Aid but really should be a +x Set Effect to avoid a low roll.

I would think to do this regularly and with your description of concentration, she has + XD6 of Set Effect (I might be mistaken on the correct thing here.) with Concentration as a Limitation. Whoops, just remembered that most of the martial art sourcebooks would have this as an Aid. Still she concentrates on the tree and can do extra damage. It would be harder to do against soldiers but not impossible.

The classic build is Gliding on the ground only. Anyways the Rice paper I think goes against Tracking not Stealth but at least a -3 but perhaps -5 to the roll?

My initial thought was High DC with AP and maybe x2 AP for Hardened. Then I was going to suggest the ever unpopular and cheesy EDM-at least for the tree only. But I think a reasonable build might be Drain Body as Drains bypass DEF normally. A high Drain should cut the tree in a punch.

That why I said only versus Clinging. 😜

@Duke Bushido, the pamphlet on the Resource kit isn’t the rules though. It’s just a summary of the costs of Powers, Skills, and Characteristics. It doesn’t explain how they work (or don’t).

How about Desolid only vs Clingng? It’s a real wall that you can damage but if you try Cling to it, you can’t hold onto it. As for the Change Environment, which I also like. Buy it high enough and it just works, no roll allowed, just how Talents work.

I think I have a working distinction between Optimizers and Power Gamers. Both can Min-Maxers but that in itself isn’t very telling. The distinction is an Optimizer optimizes so as to play a concept however he is willing to not use a legal build if said build is found to be Over powered or in a Hero game not really fun. A Power gamer will stand on the ground, well that’s a legal build therefore I should be able to take it even though that can really mess with game play.

I ran across an interesting video by Needy Overanalyer on creating custom Mechs. He first shows how to break the game then goes into how to nerf designs to fit in with the fluff and also suggestions of when to add them in to the game. The main reason is to make the game enjoyable. I find this relevant to Hero system in that there are so game breaking Powers or builds out there. That can be fun for its own sake. However making a character that fits in should be the goal. So I think min-maxing a little to make character to be in concept (or playable) is fine if it’s done with restraint. Basically Nerdy talks about making custom Mechs in the spirit of the game and that’s what I think is applicable to Hero System.

I think you see a trend in lighter rules because of people’s attention spans. A buddy went to try out the new Alpha Strike game for Battletech. I asked him how it went and he told me it was fun. 20mins 4 turns and the game was over. Though he rather play Classic. I picked up the box set then 1) The minis are the same for either system. 2) I can convince my kids to play AS probably more often that Classic. And really it’s another reason why Basic Fantasy has gotten played more often at my house. My youngest had a friend over, he wanted to play and in 15 mins. the dice were rolling and it wasn’t too difficult to explain. Yes, I understand how limited BF is compared to Hero but when you don’t play that often? The limitations aren’t so bad. Plus with the Advantage/Disadvantage rule imported and I as a FM feel comfortable to wing stuff. You can actually do more than what is written.

Dude let me introduce you to my stable of suboptimal characters! 😂 I have taken 17 CON on a Fantasy Character cause I noticed all the book examples had 18 CON. Trust me building Suboptimal is not hard to do.

@Duke Bushido, I actually wavered between most and many. I’ll even go with many. I think the issue I have with Min-Maxers is that in wargamming they ignore the spirit of the game just to win. And with that complain about suboptimal builds as being dumb. Let me say too that I can appreciate an efficient design in Hero System especially trying to fit a character concept to points. I do agree to that having a sub-optimal character doesn’t equate to Roleplaying.

@Rich McGee, I have created many a burdensome character because I went by Hero Benchmarks. 😂 If Speed 4 is top human then I should only take 4. This was in a Dark Champions game where everyone else had Speed 5 and that’s acceptable on that game. So I learned about the “character tax” where sometimes you buy things up higher than you are “supposed” to. To be like what Old Man said, playable. Btw I got to play in a 600 pt ish game once and yeah I felt bored. I want to be competent but I don’t need to be Silver Age powerful either.

Hot take coming in. Anyone else seen this that “Min-Maxers aren’t so bad”? Now I agree that being a Min-maxer doesn’t automatically make you a bad roleplayer. I just think that though most min-maxers I’ve come across aren’t worried about roleplaying.

Another thing I wanted to point out even though we’re talking about Hero System, other gaming systems have seem to miss the mark at different things on representing genre. I ran across a House Rule on MSH because as RAW, High Strength Characters like the Hulk have an easier time to grab Spiderman. And the House Rule address that you don’t see that happen often in the Comics. (FWIW Speedsters get shorted in that game too.) iirc, at least in Fourth under translation follies this brought up. Some things don’t work as well in the game as it does in the Comics. I don’t think that it’s a problem as much a something to remember.