Ninja-Bear

True but all those characters are not in a game either. Perhaps Gandalf would’ve lived if he had Resistant Defenses 😏. Crouching Tiger, they could’ve had Iron Shirt ability that we couldn’t see. And D&D doesn’t use Resistant Defenses, remember?

Well, I have some Champions characters without any Resistant Defenses so Fantasy would be stronger in that sense.

Ok @Duke Bushido, we’re on the same page. What I meant by for immunity for free was that there was a build that to represent true immunity, you buy Desolid to represent. The fact that you do not take damage, which happens with Desolid. You take a limitation of you cannot move through solid objects. I.e you still have to use a door you don’t just ooze under it. If you want to Affect the Real World, iow hit someone then you must buy Affects Real World. It’s quite expensive.

Fwiw, I’m the BBB, pg S25, the is a filled out Champions Campaign Groundsheet for Champions. It’s labeled as a Standard SuperHeroic game and all the dials are set. Perhaps that should’ve been bigger and easier to find.

@Duke Bushido ok so you and I are on the same page. Does Mudman with Desolid and limitation doesn’t go through solid objects (-1) correct? I have seen that before. Now the issue is with this limited Desolid, is he (or it?) immune to damage? Can it in return do damage while Desolid? I noticed that you compared the limited Desolid to Damage Reduction. Damage Resistance per 4th you must buy Stun and Body separately and also Physical and Energy so a modest 25% DR Normal Physical 10pts, DR Normal Energy 10pts, DR Resistant Physical 15 pts, DR Energy 15 pts for a total of 50 pts. So if you’re giving away immunity for a limitation? That’s not in the spirit of the rules. Fwiw, if Mudman is Desolid and can go through spaces and can’t hit someone else in the semi-liquid form and that’s because of the limitation, I have no problem with that. @Doc Democracy, I think the reason why Desolid became fixed because before 4th, you may not know how much Desolid to buy. Desolid was based on Body spent to go through correct? Even though Hero System rarely uses absolutes, it probably made more sense for Desolid to be an absolute.

I think the general rule (and this can be genre appropriate) should be, have I seen this in the source material? For Super heroes, comics and early cartoons is the default. So flying 100 mph and grabbing someone is fine UNLESS for some reason you want more realism.

@Duke Bushido, I’d thought you would’ve made an elastic type character. You know, since you’re stretching your self to play a different edition. 🤪 Sorry but I couldn’t help that bad pun. Have fun. And remember this for your GM, Steve Long told me he’d never send the game police if you alter the game. So as commendable it is that he’s sticking to RAW, if you guys truly want to change a rule, then by all means, do it.

Quite true. However you CAN define the Strength as Only to Pull away or Only to Carry. That’s in building Maneuvers Rule, or you can have BOTH in the same maneuver but you have to pay for each use of Strength. You could just just buy extra STR X Only for Takeaways and carrying people (-1/4) , Only with Flying Grab (-1).

I don’t have a problem with Desolid as Invulnerable . But to take a limitation so you have an advantage? That is going against the spirit of the rule.

We always used extra DCV levels to represent that. I’ve always used Armor to represent a partial Desolid body. You could by Tunneling to represent that or in 6th Alternate Movement would work. And I would allow it too.

@Duke Bushido, another way to look at it is that if a Flyer is going 200 mph and grabs something, he doesn’t get hurt. And I swear in one of the later editions there is a comment where you are protected for free effects of your power, such as I shoot lasers from my eyes, my eyes don’t burn. Or I run super fast and friction doesn’t burn me either. So I would see this as an extension of Flight UBO. Unless you take a limitation that is. 😉

As far as I know, the grabber is just grabbed. If you wanted the the thing to take damage then that’s a separate attack. Let’s look at Disarm. I can disarm you by smacking your hand so hand that you lose the weapon yet mechanically I don’t do either Stun or Body damage to you. I wonder if the GM will allow your velocity to be converted to Grab Strength.

@Hugh Neilsonand @Grailknight, you both seem to have overlooked Armadillo. Which is probably more abusive since All if his stats per-6th were Normal and everything else bought through OIF. Defender as in Armadillo and Blue Jay for that matter are Normals in Super Armor to compete with Supers. In fact, I would comfortably say most, 85%, of Champions Characters of this concept are built like this and none of their out of suit stats would violate NCM. Iow, I don’t see Defender being built to take advantage of NCM but rather taking because it suits the character’s concept and build.

A thought struck me the other day. What is the difference between Armadillo and Defender? Both have most of their abilities bought OIF to have abilities above Normal. Defender has NCM since it’s a newer Disadvantage and Armadillo being an OG villain, it wasn’t available. However the decrier of NCM will claim that Defender is getting away with something because of his build. If anything the way I see it Armadillo got hosed because he has to come up with another 20pt limitation that Defender didn’t.

Oh I can certainly see build car form as sfx of Powers. What I really can’t see is why the rules just won’t allow you to change into a vehicle.

I swear this has come up before. And the consensus (such as it were) was just over rule the rule and allow vehicles into the multi-form.

That’s why I’m this case I think for an easy build it suits. FWIW it should be -0 limitation, GM plot device.

Not for their conscience only. I mean body and all. The cyrosleep dimension can act however you want. You need to designate a way that the character comes “back”.

If you don’t want to go into the weeds with a “proper” build, I’ll go with the sometimes cheesy Extra Dimension Movement (EDM) Power as a base. The EDM is really the Cyrosleep. As a GM you define what happens in a new dimension. So really you can define that this “dimension” nothing happens to the person. You can tack on Focus and other limitations to suit.

Here’s a player dilemma which came up in a Fantasy Game once. You defeated the goblins then what? One player wanted to kill them because he feared that they would come back and attack the group. That is a legitimate concern. I knew that the GM wouldn’t have played it that way but you almost need a trope that the world works that way.

I’ve seen a play through and it looks interesting.

I do want to add that over the the entry years, it hasn’t always been rainbows and unicorns. One thing that helped though is Faith and Psy lim: Marriage Vows 20 pts Total. She would tell you Psy Lim: Stubborn (and that politely putting it) 35 points. There are times and places where being stubborn is good. Note on Communication. My father always said “ You can tell people who you are but your actions tell them what you are.”

I do and the family says I’m yelling.😁

If you mean the shirts? Well, what ever she buys, I wear! 😁 (I prefer the classic myself).

A friend at work said if your wife buys you Star Wars shirts, don’t let her go. 😂 She did roll her eyes earlier because I was watching Buggs Bunny. 😁