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Trebuchet

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Trebuchet last won the day on December 14 2005

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About Trebuchet

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    Quintuple Millennial Master
  • Birthday 04/01/1959

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    I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could.
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    I am a leaf on the wind...

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  1. Re: The Team "Vibe" MidGuard is our campaign's equivalent to the Justice League or Avengers, although we lack their raw power. While there are other hero teams out there, they are lower powered and lower profile. (Only one has actually made an appearance within the campaign; a US Government team called Justice Watch whose members are all US Marshals.) Current membership: Zl'f: World's most agile person; the team's field leader and spokesperson. She's impulsive and tends towards action rather than conversation. Silhouette: Team brick and über-geek. Picture Dr. Samantha Cart
  2. Re: Hero is broken I've always operated under the assumption that dropping a multi-ton object on a character does the same damage as the STR needed to lift it (regardless of the inherent AoE effects of a large object). I think others in this thread have already made a pretty good case for the BODY of major characters and vehicles being wholely arbitrary within the limits of what is needed for the story. I'm more than OK with using mass as a starting point to calculate for a largish object; I just don't consider that the final word. I'd increase or decrease it as I saw fit, within
  3. Re: Hero is broken That's an interesting point, and worthy of consideratio9n. But how many Champions or Star Hero games deal with that kind of attack damage? Not many, and for more typical Champions/Star Hero games I suspect linear progession represents genre far better. Agreed. However, I still think it's fairly clear that while attack energy was originally based on exponential scaling the results are quite clearly linear. BODY is also clearly linear in nature; a character with 15 BODY is not exponentially harder to kill than one with 10 BODY. He's 50% harder to kill. We have to
  4. Re: Hero is broken Yes, this is an effect which there is no good way to simulate in HERO. I'm not certain that's a serious weakness in a role-playing system though. The damage charts in The Ultimate Vehicle do allow some effects fairly close to this in vehicles. In general, I would prefer to hand-wave this kind of stuff to create a more dramatic scenario. (Heck, I shot down our Champions team's first vehicle with an EMP wave even though the vehicle hadn't taken any actual physical damage from the nuclear explosion in the stratosphere- at least, not until it crashed.) Great post, T
  5. Re: Hero is broken I think for the purposes of this discussion, which centers on inflicting damage and the game effect we call BODY, we should just ignore Stun completely. We are, after all, discussing destroying objects and characters, not knocking them unconscious. That being the case, any pretense that 12d6 is 4X as effective as 10d6 fails any reasonable test completely. (Even using your Stun example, we're talking only 50% better, not 400%.) In the real world the result of any attack is just as dependent on the defenses as on the power of the attack. An attack which is 400% more po
  6. Re: Hero is broken I agree with you on the problems of exponential mixing with linear damage systems. The Hero damage system may or may not be exponential, but exponentially fails miserably in the "playability" category. That's why in general I prefer to use a strictly linear system. It's far easier to use and is far more intuitive to the average player and GM. Who wants to go through all the math you just did to figure out an impact? Everyone understand that a 20d6 attack does twice as much damage as a 10d6 one in game effect. Human just don't think in terms of millions and billions o
  7. Re: Hero is broken Assuming your calculation are correct, that would certainly seem to put the kibosh on the "A nuke is only 12d6K" theory. I don't think any megaton-range bomb we've ever detonated left a crater 7/10th of a mile across and a 1/4 mile deep like Meteor Crater. However, even a 51d6 attack did nothing more than raise a tiny pore on the skin of our planet. A horrific disaster if it hit a city or coastline; but utterly negligible on a planetary scale. A thousand such iumpacts wouldn't destroy the Earth*, although it'd do a number on the flora and fauna, including us.
  8. Re: Hero is broken I agree 100%. If a bacterium set off a small "nuke" proportional to his size within our mouths, it would probably blow a new cavity in our molar, not blow our head off or "destroy the world." Scale is always a factor, as are energy, the composition of the target, and the nature of the attacking force. That's why simple mass * velocity = damage calculations cannot cover all circumstances. As an example, early fin-stabilized sabot rounds from tank guns were devastating out to about 2000 meters, but failed utterly much beyond that range. Why? Because the projectile w
  9. Re: Hero is broken The idea is not without merit, but I think you're overthinking this. There's certainly no reason to create an entirely new in-game mechanic to deal with Earth's BODY when there's a much simpler method; one already suggested by the rules: Add more BODY With 10,000+ (or whatever) BODY, Earth suddenly become a heck of a lot harder to blow up, and that makes those "puny" little nukes with 20d6+ Killing Attacks much more reasonable. Clearly there is more to damage than just energy, as you've observed previously. Look at the image below. This is the damage caused b
  10. Re: Hero is broken There's an old axiom in the legal profession which states "Hard cases make bad law." I suspect we're seeing something equivalent here: The far ends of the damage/BODY spectrum lead to strange or even ridiculous results. However, for the 99.999% of players and GMs who will never find it necessary to destroy a planet or build the weapon to do so the rules as written are adequate, if simplistic. They make perfectly good starting points. That's fine, because this is a role-playing game, and the GM is explicitly permitted by the rules to modify defenses and BODY as he sees f
  11. Re: Hero is broken Actually, that's a rather good suggestion. 10 inch thick steel isn't just harder to destroy than 1 inch, it's also much harder to penetrate in ther first place. It's totally logical for additional mass to increase the defenses. I don't agree with your scale, but that's a triviality. I think should take a much bigger attack than 50d6 to injure the Earth or other planetary sized body in any significant way. Break a mountain? Sure. Break Earth? No way. That should take hundreds or even thousands of dice. There is another aspect of this entire debate that seems
  12. Re: Your PCs might be Underpowered if... I yield! Please! Mercy! I'm hurting myself laughing...
  13. Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar! Bora was the big loss to the 5e Eurostar lineup. She was not only quite powerful offensively in her own right but was also Eurostar's escape route (Grab her all teammates with AoE TK and vamoose!). Scorpiaa is about as good in a fight as Pantera was, and to my mind fits Eurostar's theme better. The Whip is no loss; he was a yawner as a villain. Of course one less member means less tactical flexibility. Blackjack, who ran Eurostar for this scenario, despises the way Fiacho is built and has totally rebuilt him for our campaign. As I understand it Fiach
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