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Gary last won the day on April 8 2004

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About Gary

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    Septuple Millennial Master
  • Birthday 07/27/1967

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    Pharmaceutical Sellout
  1. Does Trip and Martial maneuvers with Trip elements such as Legsweep have the same weight limit as Throws and Martial Throws (your pushed Str)? It seems like it should be easier to Trip someone than to Throw them, but then you get into ridiculous situations like Robin Legsweeping Godzilla...
  2. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts
  3. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts I don't see many martial artists with only exotic attacks (in fact, I've never seen any in 20+ years of gaming). And I submit that having the ability to add +2 DCs to exotic attacks is not worth 8-9 pts on top of the 8 pts already spent for the regular damage piece. Honest question for you. Would you pay 8-9 pts for +2 DCs that only add to exotic attacks if you were building a MA character? I certainly wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't even use martial arts if I were building a character with only exotic attacks. I'd go straight for the multipower.
  4. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts You sorta have to factor in the base ability of the DC. A MA can only use the DCs for a single attack (barring MPAs or Sweeps), thus the multipower structure is entirely apt and the marginal cost should reflect it. Having a single attack is wonderful, having the option of 2 or more attacks is better but not twice as wonderful. Thus I'm very skeptical that adding to exotic attacks would double the base value of a MA DC. You have to ask yourself. Would you pay 8.7 pts for JUST the ability to add to exotic martial attacks without adding to base attacks? I suspect the answer is no. I suspect you would pay in the neighborhood for 3-4 pts for that ability, and possibly not even then. Whereas for Str, I'd happily pay more than 3-4 pts for the Rec, Leap, Lift, Casual, etc.
  5. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts Since you have to amortize it after including the base attack (since you can only use one at a time), the real cost should be: 40 Multipower: 60 point base, no range 4 u 12d6 Flash, no range 4 u 4d6 RKA, no range 4 u 6d6 EB, NND, no range 4 u 12d6 EB, no range 56 points for 12 DCs or about 9.3 pts for 2 DCs. This represents 1.3 pts of additional value over the 8 pt cost for 2 martial arts DCs. I agree the "true" marginal value of using DCs for NNDs, KAs, and Flashes is probably a little higher than this simplistic analysis shows, but not close to 8.7 pts as you're suggesting. And in actual play in my experience, it's not close to the value provided by Str's other benefits.
  6. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts I don't quite see the ability to add 2 DCs to martial flash, KA, or NNDs to be worth 12.5 pts. This is from extensive experience and play. Also, the MA must purchase those 3 maneuvers to begin with, which would cost 12 pts or so additional. Whereas Rec, Leap, Lift, and Casual have long proven value in actual play.
  7. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts Draining Dex works much better against low dex high skill level characters than high dex low skill level characters. Character A 15 Dex 10 skill levels Character B 30 Dex Scenario 1: Both get drained from 1-14 pts of Dex. Both lose the exact same amount of CV. Neither side is advantaged or disadvantaged. Scenario 2: Both get drained 15-29 pts of Dex. Character B is much better off. Character A has to roll 9- or worse to be able to do any physical action. Character B still has full freedom of movement.
  8. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts You can normalize both Str and martial arts damage classes to get a fair comparison. 2 DCs and +2 PD costs 10 pts and get you: +2d6 damage +2 PD ability to add to Martial Flash, KAs, and NNDs. +10 Str 0 End and subtracting 5 Stun costs 10 pts and gets you: +2d6 damage +2 PD +2 Rec +2" Leap X4 Lift +1d6 free "Damage Shield" from Casual Strength limited to Grabs/Entangles Ability to use the environment for free Area Effects and Range if Str is high enough. A limited Constant aspect Str wins big time.
  9. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts I wonder why the people who charge double for stats above 20 for comic book normal humans don't charge double for skills beyond 3. It's a lot more rare in real life to find someone with PHDs or black belts in Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Sociology, Psychology, Detective skills, martial arts, and acrobatics than it is to find someone with above 20 in a stat.
  10. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts
  11. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts From my recollection at least in the Marvel Universe, the least costumed martial artist was Mockingbird, and she generally didn't have any problems with cannon fodder. As far as training, I don't know about Hydra and Aim, but Shield agents are generally the creme de la creme of agents, and every one of them is probably equal to a special forces soldier. And based on what I've read of West Coast Avengers, IMO Mockingbird could easily clobber 4 or more of them.
  12. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts 11/2 agents might represent normal thugs, but I refuse to accept that Shield, Hydra, or AIM agents are that wimpy. And the least comic book martial artist hero can handle 4 or more of them with no problems.
  13. Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts Who the heck says that anyone can train hard enough? The vast vast vast vast majority of people could train decades and not come close to what Batman or Daredevil or Lady Shiva or Shang Chi or Captain America can do. I could train 20 hours a day for 20 years starting from age 4 and I wouldn't be able to beat the 12th scrub on an NBA team let alone Jordan. Since you plainly accept that comic book characters can do things that normal humans can't, I don't see why you can't accept Dex/Spd higher than 20/4. IRL, someone with a 20 Str would be a 250-300 pound steroid freak. Yet Batman, based on what he's actually done in comics, has at least that level of Str and a normal athletic build while having an agility better than the best Olympic gymnast who has ever lived. I can't see how you can suspend disbelief enough to accept Batman, but you can't for higher than 20 Dex.
  14. Re: Your campaigns campaign limits. YOU were the one stating that 18 Def wasn't significantly better than 8 Def. This is obviously and manifestly false.
  15. Re: Your campaigns campaign limits. Since I never said they were, your 'obfuscate' comment was completely inappropriate.
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