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What about density-based powers affecting it?

I don't mind not having figured characteristics. I'm sure for some new players entering the game, it's a bit more attractive without them. Honestly, I've given thought to just making Perception an INT-based skill.

How does it hold up in more recent editions?

Coming from older editions, I completely agree. And while I cut my teeth on Champions/Hero back in the early '80s, I started viewing Disads differently in 4th, which has educated my opinions in 6th. I guess a big question I have is where is the compensation in 6th ed Complications? What do players get beyond story for them? Yes, they're "required," but the points no longer reflect spending points anymore. I think this is where I have some disconnect. Sure, I get that. This goes to concept and how it interacts with the Template chosen. In some cases, that 5 pt. version may not be feasible depending on campaign, organization, or even the character itself. Exactly. I've always seen the intentions of Complications/Disads in this light. Hunteds are a great example of this, particularly when looking at frequency. The higher pt. values typically indicated that the Hunted showed up more often. The same could be said about someone with a Psych Lim at Total, or a DNPC that showed up very frequently and was less than competent. Absolutely, Doc. In my case, I'm upfront with my players and often type up a small 6-8 page booklet that gives the house rules, packages, standard gear, etc. I always try and find a way to spotlight characters from session to session, and Complications work as a great vehicle for that. On the BadWrongFun part, I really wish that others would understand that at times.

Thank you, Doc D. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Even back in the older days of Hero, I've always seen Disads/Complications as ways to tell a story with your character. Have a Code vs. Killing? Let's explore that by confronting a character like The Punisher. Have a Hunted by Viper? Okay, so you find an old Viper lab that has some info on you. Should they be a problem at times? Of course. When you have a x2 Vulnerability to Corgis, expect an occasional Corgi to show up and slobber on you. But having something like Subject to Orders? There should be other, more defining things for a character to take in their Complications. This is why I'm also using Quirks, so characters can be defined better.

I was looking through some older Champions books and came across the Mastermind option in Champions II (p. 21-22). Anyone ever try and bring this forward into newer editions? I often wonder why it wasn't included going forward. Was it just too game breaking? Anyone know?

That's pretty awesome, Bunch. Thanks for sharing.

Hence the quote in the first post of this topic. I'm looking for info from folks that don't use that guideline. Possibly. Templates exist for a reason. I see them as guidelines for a making a character in a campaign setting, but there are exceptions especially when presented with a solid concept. If someone made a shapeshifter and took everything but the Complications in order to make a Skrull Infiltrator, I would question why and expect a great concept in return. Just because they didn't want the Complications? Then why play a Skrull Infiltrator in the first place? There's a difference between Bill Changer Of Shapes and our alien spy. Did they have a great idea that they're hunted by the Skrull Empire after having a fling with the Queen? Okay... I'm intrigued, tell me more. I may swap out Complications that are "Template Oriented" with different ones, and still not count them toward the Matching Complications, as it's now a Skrull Expatriate kind of character now. Except that Complications don't reduce anything. They exist only in a "Complication Zone" that have zero effect on points a character may have to use. Hence why I don't see an issue with extra Complications, as they do nothing than provide a character and campaign more flavor. That said, I do miss the old Package Deal days, as I used a ton back in the day. And don't get me started on Hunteds. Some day I'll have to tell everyone about the character that had 6 Hunteds with a 14- modifier... that was a crazy game! But we did what we did to gain points back then.

That is where I run things differently, I guess. When I see a Template there's the standard info for it (Skills/Powers/Complications/etc.), and then there are Options under that. Let's look at the Druid from FH6 (p.80). You have the Template with the listed info for stats, skills, powers and the like, followed by Complications, and finished with Options. If I want to play a standard Druid in Fantasy Hero, I have to take the info listed, including the Complications. If I want some of the Options, I can take them as well. All this for 79 points. The 25 point matching Complication is then also applied. If there's a Species Template, the player playing it should have everything on it, including the Complications. Anything optional is in the Options section. So one way or another, in the case of the Skrull Infiltrator, you're getting those 45 points in Complications. In my opinion, it shouldn't be added as part Matching Complications, but rather as additional due to the job/species/background/etc.

We have different ideas of what role Templates serve it seems. For me, Templates are a way for players to interact and create characters within a campaign structure. GMs allow what they would like to see. Want to run a fantasy game that has Elves, Dwarves, and Goblins available to players? Bingo, here's the Templates. Don't want Halflings? No problem. Don't use the Template. Could you offer every Template in Fantasy Hero? Sure. Should you? Depends on the game you're running. Want to run a Conan/Sword-n-Sorcery game? Well there goes a healthy chunk of Templates. It's all in how people play the game. As for gaining benefit from Complications... what benefit is there to gain? The whole concept is to ground the character a bit, right? It's not like you're taking 35 points of Hunteds and gaining something beyond enemies at your gate, right?

Well, I guess where I'm going is that Template Complications would be considered part of the Template, but not part of the Matching Complications for the character. So in a standard 6e Champions character, for example, they need 75 Matching Complications. As per 6th ed, there are no points being gained through any Complications, just that a character should have the matching amount for the type chosen. Say you take a Species Template and an Occupation Template... Skrull Infiltrator... They both come with Complications that total 45 points. That would mean someone would only have to take 30 points in Complications. What I'm thinking is that the Template Complications don't count toward the 75, but rather are gained from grabbing the Templates. A character still has 75 points to take toward their Matching Complications.

I agree, which is why I was curious about this. I'm wondering if Template Complications should be included in the amount the player chooses. I think there's some customization lost if they count. For example: Commander Star's player has taken a Government Template that has "Subject to Orders (15pt)" as a complication. If it's added to their Matching Complications, they lose 15 points of customization, as they "have" to take this. What I'm thinking is that it's just an added Complication, and the player may customize further. Does that make sense? I should also note that I've opted to use something akin to GURPS Quirks as well, bumping Matching Complications totals up by 5.

I'm working on some stuff for a game and was thinking about Templates a bit. Particularly the Complication end of things. According to the books (6E1 p. 36): I've always seen these as "In Addition" to Complications taken by a player. And from what I've seen over at Homebrewing a HERO System 2e, I'm not the only one in the past. Does anyone run it this way in 6th edition? Has anyone had success with it in 6th edition?

Isn't this basically the Speed Zone abilities as seen in The Ultimate Speedster (p. 251) for 5th ed?

You should be able to load them via Prefab>Load Prefab. They'll appear on the appropriate tab with the Prefab subtab.

I used to in the pre-5th days. My 3rd and 4th ed campaigns almost exclusively used villains from the various supplements for more than a decade. 5th ed started changing that as I began using more and more of my own NPCs. Nowadays I pretty much use my own only... with some inspired by the old characters, and some that have been used in other systems for the past 30+ years.

1) Solid Sound Punch: You focus your sound effects into a solid sound blast that takes the form of a punch. 2) Solid Sound Seeker: You let loose with a barrage of solid sound spheres that seek out all enemies. For added bonus, add selective. 3) Sonic Scream: You emit a ear-popping scream that attacks all within the cone's area. For added bonus, add NND (Hearing Flash Def). 4) Vertigo-a-Go-Go: You use subsonics to mess with a target's vertigo, causing their DEX (and maybe DCV) to lower. 5) Sonic Scrambler: You use a sonic beam to scramble someone's brain. The only defense is Hearing Flash Defense. 6) Thunder Cry: You have a booming cry that hits like a hammer. Defense is Hearing Flash Defense. 7) Solid Sound Needles: You let loose with a bevy of solid sound needles that shred your opponent. Add Autofire and Piercing for more fun. 8 ) Droning On: Using repetitive sounds, you cause the target to tire out via an END Drain. 9) Solid Sound Squadron: You summon forth a squadron of solid sound decoys to confuse and attack enemies on the ground and in the sky. 10) Sound Off: You can drain sonic powers from others and add their power to your END temporarily. 11) Solid Sound Bubble: You can create a bubble from solid sound that has its own atmosphere in it. Buy Life Support with Usable by Others to make it really effective. 12) Blaring Sound: You deafen opponents with high-pitched noise.

I would imagine someone could abort to toss the grenade back. Maybe an OCV vs. OCV check might work? Alternatively, there could always be a time limit for the grenade. Maybe a delayed phase, or maybe an activation?

A bar that caters to lawbreakers checking IDs for younger beings seems a bit odd to me.

This is the way I read the question as well. In my superhero campaign, certain things can be bought with RPs, and others can't. For example, if you want an unstable uniform, or a costume with a limited amount of armor, I typically allow players to buy them with RPs (which I've renamed Gear Points in my game).

It's an interesting idea, LL. How would you bring that into a non-figured characteristic 6th ed? Would characters begin with XX SAN? That's why I was referencing Horror Hero in my initial post, Doc and Steriaca. I'm wondering if there is some validity to bringing the systems presented in that sourcebook forward to 6th ed, or should there be something new created?

Hmm... I would think creating a SAN stat that works a bit like Mental STUN would be more along the Call of Cthulhu lines. I believe I've seen a few other folks try that in HERO a few years (decades?) back. I would think that EGO would be better to defend against Fear-Based PRE Attacks. EGO Damage is an interesting idea. Would you basically use it akin to BODY? Not sure if I agree on INT damage. I think in the long run, I was interpreting the rules less like CoC's SAN, and more like lasting Fear, particularly the section on situational PRE-Attacks.

Hello Herodom! For those that have used it, what is your opinion of the Shock & Stress system in Horror Hero? Do you think there's a better way of approaching such concepts in 6th ed?

I've been playing with something similar. Rather than reflect missing, it rewards people for playing heroic, bringing snacks, etc. EDIT: I should also note that some villains get a variation of this as well. Makes things interesting.

That's an interesting idea, Duke. Does it slow things down?