Chuckg

Alternatively... Universal Translator, Only with Plants (-1) -- 20 Active, 10 Real

The plans were nixed due to unavailability of players, but I was planning on running a 'start strong and built up to epic' Terran Empire campaign where the PCs start out as semi-outcasts and end up saving the Empire. We'd even gotten character generation done before scheduling intervened. The plan starts with a senior figure in Imperial intelligence/counter-intelligence who decides that in order to best get the job done without higher levels of corrupt oversight, he needs his own Suicide Squad. And with that many planets full of people to go through, and that many prisons, finding suitably dependable candidates shouldn't be that hard. Edit -- the whole point of the campaign was that all of the PCs (save two) were people who were in prison but *weren't* bad people -- a little selfish, maybe, a little impulsive, maybe, but not callous criminals. No cortex bombs, no shock collars -- just a promise of good pay and an eventual pardon... or life without parole on the worst prison moon in the universe if they skip out and are later found. And Colonel Mendoza would've made damn sure they understood, they *would* eventually be found. The player characters would have been: * "Red" -- a former corporal in the Imperial Army, Red was serving a life sentence for murder due to a death in a brawl. It was all done wrong... he was actually saving a girl from being assaulted, but the guy with the gun who's neck he had to break had powerful friends. If you've seen "Con Air", you've pretty much seen the origin story. Red was the group's STR 25 (with cyberware) combat specialist. Reason picked -- military training and discipline, and psych profile indicated he wasn't the criminal type at all and would do anything to clear out his record. * "Lisa" -- Allegedly in prison for unlicensed possession of psionic powers and fraud, 'Lisa' was actually an undercover Mind Police officer. A talented detective and an 8d6 Telepath (Empathy Only), she was there both to contribute her expertise, and to make sure the group didn't run. Lisa would have been the group's detective and psion. Well, Colonel Mendoza *did* say he'd find them. Reason picked -- heh. * 'Dr. Shannon Forrester'-- According to her prison records, Shannon was an Exploration Corps scientist, serving fifteen years for unauthorized access to *very* classified records. Actually, she was an experimental AI -- a computer brain implanted in an organic human body -- undergiong final testing. A minimum-security prison had been chosen as the perfect controlled, limited, and heavily monitored social environment for the first socialization run, and a phony background had been made to match. Problem is, nobody had told Colonel Mendoza. So she was yanked out on an Intelligence priority and given the offer before her own controllers knew what was going on. Note -- not all of the above is true, but it's what the player was told. Dr. Forrester was a GM-created PC, and the player who took her knew they were volunteering for a 'Mystery PC' plot. Reason picked -- computer hacking talents combined with (according to records) a very pliable nature and a perfect behavioral record. "Zack" -- the typical hot-shot pilot, Zack was in prison for 20 years' on pretty much every smuggling charge there was. Reason picked -- he's damn talented, and damn desperate to get out of the box, and has a record of not killing people or using unnecessary violence. Also a bit of a coward. "Sadie" -- think '27th-century' catwoman. This daring thief and con woman was one of the slickest in a dozen systems, as well as being a talented martial artist. Resaon picked -- a very impressive resume, and a high confidence in the abilities of Detective Lisa to keep her from oozing out the window first chance she got. The plot would have come in three stages... 1) Intro action/spy adventures, working for Colonel Mendoza. Gradual foreshadowing of phase 2, as well as high-level corruption in the Empire. Discovery that "Dr. Forrester" is in fact some type of android. 2) Their Patron is disgraced/imprisoned. They're cut off, out in the cold. It's fugitive time. As they run, they discover signs that a horrible conspiracy is slowly taking over the Empire. Whether they want to deal with or not, this conspiracy sees them as a threat (due to something they apparently picked up in phase 1). Eventually, they'll discover that "Dr. Forrester" (if she's still alive -- if not, run in an NPC) is one of many 'Daryl'-type organic androids with computer brains seeded in various positions throughout the empire. These androids work for the master villain. A programming glitch had freed Dr. Forrester. 3) The PCs, by this point, should have enough motivation to do the right thing and go in to save the Empire and the Empress, because by this point the conspirator has made his move and placed the Empress under the control of his enslaver nanites. And then the curtain goes up, and in the style of the 'Great Darkness Saga', the curtain raises to reveal... ... Dr. Albert Zerstoiten. Who had cryogenically preserved himself in the early 21st century and has arisen, weakeend but still horribly dangerous, to try and enslave the 27th. *WHAM* And the good Doctor drops the hammer on them, Darkseid style. 4) I was still writing Phase Four of the campaign, aka 'the heroes make it all the way back and finally wipe Dr. Destroyer's behind', when the scheduling conflicts folded the campaign. [Ah-nuld] "Remember when I said there vere only three stages? I lied." [/Ah-nuld]

Mind Link w/ any one mind (any willing target), Plants Only (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) 15 Active Points, 7 Real Points

> He doesn't have to appear in court to have a warant issued > for his arrest. For his /arrest/? In 1991, they sent the US Pacific /Fleet/ after him. They came back with less carriers than they started with. Nobody's even /trying/ to arrest Destroyer any more, save for whatever PC superheroes who took 'Honesty' or 'Code of the Hero' who happen to face him. After Detroit, the governments of the world have Dr. Destroyer classified in the same strategic threat category as a nuclear attack. Clear and present danger to national security. Cry havoc and let silp the dogs of war time. [snip] > Well, as Fiacho's lawyer, I must protest the appointment of > jurors who have already decided he's guilty without hearing > the evidence. I think the European Union also has trial by military tribunal for terrorists of this magnitude. Congrats, the "Law & Order" tactics just aren't going to work. [snip] > BTW, why would Eurostar be tried in a US court? Who said they would be? [snip] > WHICH superhero? Special Agent Teknique of the FBI? Dr. Silverback? Tetsuronin, highest-tech hero of Japan? Just to name three who have never fought Eurostar... oh, right, they're heroes. Therefore, they can be claimed to be 'biased' against mass-murdering psychotic terrorists. To be fair to the mass-murdering psychotic terrorist demographic, their testimony must all be excluded. Plus, UNTIL has superhero-agent-level tech and can do it on its own. Wait, they're biased against Eurostar too, right? Great, now I'm getting the Dream Team defense. > You need one who hasn't demonstrated a bias against > Eurostar for their evidence to be credible. Which by your definition of 'bias' apparently rules out any superhero or law enforcement or intelligence agency in either the Western or the Eastern hemisphere... which means forget it. [snip] > > Osama bin Laden, if ever brought to trial in US District > > Court, has exactly as much chance of getting off as > > Fiacho and Eurostar of doing in any court in Europe. > No one could believe OJ got acquitted either. OJ killed (edit) two people. Osama's boys hit the US with the worst sneak attack it ever suffered since Pearl Harbor. Approximately three thousand innocent people dead, and billions of worth of property ruined. Wow, I think I just gave what the book lists as Eurostar's lifetime score. The upside of being "the world's greatest terrorists" is that everybody fears and hates you. The downside of being "the world's greatest terrorists" is... that everybody fears and hates you. Edit -- plus, I can always extradite them to Russia. They've committed crimes in that jurisdiction too... including hijacking about a billion euro in gold from the Russian government's stockpiles? (IIRC) Let's see you try and run the "OJ Defense" /there/. I think Eurostar might actually get as much as a whole ten minutes between their fair trial, their fair appeal, and their fair two slugs to the back of the head. (Railgun slugs, in Durak's case.)

As I said before in the other thread, Witchcraft/Witchfire/whoever really needs a new origin. I'd just take Solitaire's from 4e and give it to her. Now *that* was a good origin, at least IMO.

As for my own position on the core issue, it boils down to two things: a) If the DM says "Your proposed action will contradict a Psych Lim, are you sure you want to continue (Y/N)?", then the player proceeds any further Only At His Own Risk. Teleporting that big a chunk out of a building can be reasonably expected to collapse it. Collapsing an occupied building can be reasonably expected to kill at least some of the occupants. If I had been the DM, I'd have told the player this before he did it, as his character would be experienced enough to know it. IIRC, this is what actually happened, right? I.e. -- the character's up for negligent homicide. OTOH, the larger political fallout of such a set of charges depends highly on the situation at the time.

Re: Re: Redemeable Villains > If you mean which villains would make good heroes, then I > would vote for GRAB. I could easily see them turning into a > kind of "Thunderbolts" team. In fact, I've set up an > adventure where that very thing happens. They'd be my > first choice in a heartbeat. Don't forget to add Lady Blue... of course, that's *four* hotties and one guy on GRAB, then. Somebody tell Lodestone to reform fast, Cheshire Cat's brain is about to explode.

Well, if you're truly doing Mirror-Verse Champions with Goatees *g*, then Nighthawk needs to be the /least/ villainous and violent of the team.

> Assuming Lichtenstein's harbouring of Eurostar is known. Team Vanguard can voluntarily consent to go on the telepath to verify it. > Otherwise it's just one nation saying "They have > metahumans of mass destruction in there. Force is > justified!" Well, depending on the nation, that might be enough... > The lack of action by the UN leads me to believe this > connection is not well known, and I think Patriot said as > much some time in all these back pages. And the lack of action by the UN leads /me/ to believe that UNTIL is being operated via a severe plot hole here, as an in-character UNTIL would gladly launch a significant and immediate effort to confirm or deny the information given them by Vanguard(*)... and given how little Fiacho seems to be hiding himself, not need that much time to so confirm it. (*) In default sourcebooks, UNTIL would give their left nuts for a reliable Eurostar sighting.

> Hypothetically. Now, let's get him in court to make his case. And eaxctly how do you propose to do that without using enough force to qualify it as a minor war? Destroyer has this habit of atomizing process servers. Congratulations, we have just established that sometimes, if the supervillain is dangerous enough, you need to go in and kick tremendous amounts of ass just to get the proceedings to the stage where you can *start* talking about rules of evidence and motions in court. > Even signed confessions have been thrown out as coerced, > made under duress, etc Right, and let's see the jury that will believe that somebody coerced Fiacho to send the Eurostar Manifesto to the media before he was even in police custody. I mean, *please*, let's be at least *halfway* plausible here. > And we come back to linking the confession to the > accused. Video tape is pretty easily doctored. And even more easily examined for signs of tampering, especially with superhero tech. [snip] > Does Eurostar leave a lot of eyewitnesses? Despite the approximately three thousand innocent casualties they've left behind them, yes, there are a lot of living eyewitnesses. They're very much into the splashy public attack scenario. [snip] > Facetiously, [snip] You wanna be facetious, do it to your mirror, not here. [snip] > But never underestimate the power of smart legal counsel! Osama bin Laden, if ever brought to trial in US District Court, has exactly as much chance of getting off as Fiacho and Eurostar of doing in any court in Europe. That is to say, spit and none... and spit just left down.

You see how dull she is? Even her name doesn't stand out! And I don't hate her so much as I consider her backstory/personality a waste of some really nice design potential. Nighthawk, now *him* I hate.

I'm not running right now, but if I ever do, these will be my own own changes to the Champions. Keep Defender 5.0... he's much better done than Defender 4.0, IMO. Keep Sapphire. She's funny. Keep Ironclad, maybe tweak the character sheet more to get more of the 'crusty old Sergeant-Major' effect and less of the gladiator effect. Keep Witchfire's... *point writeup*. Point-wise, it's a nicely designed and thematically interesting set of powers. But the *origin story* has got to go. Ditto the personality. Ditto the name. No offense meant, Champions staff, but every time I read Witchfire's bio, I get that 'really bad Buffy fanfiction' kinda feeling in my stomach. Instead, I take Solitaire's origin story, mildly alter it to work in the sorcery and work out the emphasis on psionics, and Solitaire's personality, name, and psych lims, and bring back the goodness. And I crumple Nighthawk up like a wad of used tissue paper, chuck his worthlessly cliched butt in the big round file, and bring back Seeker to be the martial artist.

> In a court? Proof. A willing confession and statement of guilt is always proof. Hell, just being caught on a surveillance microphone admitting to the act is proof. > Physical evidence linking the person sitting im the docket > to the crime of which he is accused. Convictions can be obtained without physical evidence, if you have confessions or reliable eyewitnesses. > If he'll stand there and confess, then that should do it (or it > might just get him an insanity plea). Page 49, Champions Universe, "The Law And Superhumans" -- That's the relevant Supreme Court decision in the Champions U. Of the members of Eurostar, Ultrasonique could almost certainly get an insanity plea -- he's already been involuntarily committed once for paranoia. Scorpia's a clear-cut psychopath, but that doesn't usually buy you an insanity plea in today's justice system. Mentalla's very sane, just entirely evil. Ditto Feurmacher. Durak's got explosive rage issues, but again, he can mentally distinguish between the difference between right and wrong and choose whether or not to act on it. Ditto Fiacho.

By the exact same line of reasoning that you've used above, there is no probable cause to suspect Doctor Destroyer of the destruction of Detroit... it could *hypothetically* have been somebody else in his costume, with his gadgets, using his M.O., and commanding his resources and followers. Hypothetically. Please try to remember that the necessary standard for a criminal conviction is 'Beyond a /reasonable/ doubt?', not 'Beyond any possible doubt'. And that's for a conviction... to establish probable cause for going after them in the first place you only need 'a preponderance of the evidence', which Eurostar has long since met in spades. Eurostar is the most wanted terrorist group in the world. Eurostar can be confirmed to be in Lichtenstein. The government of Lichtenstein is, unless I grossly misunderstood the situation, refusing to either extradite Eurostar or allow the entrance of UN or other law enforcement forces to take Eurostar into custody. Right then, under international law, the UN Security Council -- or anybody else who has suffered material acts of aggression from Eurostar -- has a /casus belli/ to declare war on Lichtenstein, much less merely having just cause to go in and boot Eurostar's heads into the sixth dimension.

> Adding the difficulty of proving WHO was in that "distinctive > costume" at the time the crime was committed. Not all of Eurostar wear masks. AAMOF, Fiacho, Durak, and Feurmacher have Distinctive Features that keep them from being mistaken for anybody else on the planet. Mentalla runs around unmasked. The only two who even begin to have plausible deniability are Scorpia and Ultrasonique. Edit -- and Ultrasonique has a public ID anyway, so I don't know why he bothers with the mask at all. Edit II -- not to mention that Eurostar has gladly taken public responsibility for their acts of terror anyway... they freely *confess* who are they are and what they do, what more do you need? As mentioned in its description, Eurostar is not treated as a criminal threat any longer -- it's treated as a national security threat. Thus is the downside of being one of the world's most notorious terrorist organizations.

Well, most normal criminals don't dress up in distinctive costumes and go out and butcher hundreds of people in broad daylight, screaming "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" to the world news media. Eurostar *does* do that kind of thing. Thus making guilt a lot easier to distinguish in their case. Cripes, they *revel* in listing their misdeeds for the world. As somebody cogently pointed out in the thread, Eurostar's the freaking Al Qaeda of Earth-Champions Europe. Nations declare military alerts whenever they're spotted inside their territory. UNTIL is seriously considering putting together a dedicated *UN peacekeeping force* for the sole purpose of booting Eurostar's heads. In this kind of political situation, I can't imagine any country granting Eurostar sanctuary that wasn't /already/ an international pariah... 'cause if they weren't before, they durn sure will be now. Edit -- and as far as 'not being known' -- a) UNTIL has surveillance resources comparable to SHIELD's At least half the team has so many Distinctive Features they can't go out in daylight *anywhere* without being noticed and c) the PCs saw them there, didn't they? Never mind how not-believed they are, any one of them can consent to a telepathic scan.