Fedifensor

Hero Central, a place online where you could play various flavors of Hero in a play by post format, has been gone for a long time (since 2014, if I remember correctly).  For those of you who played on Hero Central, did you move your games elsewhere, or just stop playing in that format?  Are there any current sites out there that function as a replacement?

I'm close to finally (over 10 years later) having a second go at Gamma World HERO!
 
Here's some streamlined stat blocks of possible foes to encounter:
 
Wabbids
STR 5, DEX 13, SPD 3, OCV 5, DCV 8
PD/rPD 4/1, ED/rED 3/1, CON 5, BODY 6, STUN 12
Bite (1d6+1 K, reduced penetration - avg 12 STUN, 2x2 BODY, +2 OCV vs hit location penalties)
Camouflage (Invisibility, only when not moving), Nightvision.
5" Run, 7" Jump
Perception 12- (14- hearing), Concealment 14-, Stealth 16-
These are carnivorous rabbits the size of small dogs, that can blend into their surroundings.
 
Badclaws
STR 10, DEX 13, SPD 3, OCV 4, DCV 6
PD/rPD 6/2 (Hardened), ED/rED 4/2, CON 11, BODY 11, STUN 22
Claw (1d6+1K AP - avg 12 STUN, 4 BODY) or by weapon
Nightvision
5" Run, Tunneling 2" vs DEF 6
Perception 11-, Concealment 13-, Stealth 14-
Badclaws are 1 meter tall humanoid badgers with exceptionally-sharp claws and humanlike fingers.  Their skin is resistant to their own claws and similar attacks.
 
Brushers / Coys
STR 13, DEX 13, SPD 3, OCV 4, DCV 5
PD/rPD 6/2, ED/rED 4/2, CON 13, BODY 13, STUN 28
Bite (1 1/2d6K, reduced penetration, avg 15 STUN, 3+2 BODY)
Enhanced Senses (Tracking and Targeting for Smell)
9" Run
Perception 12- (15- smell), Concealment 14-, Stealth 14-
Brushers are mutated coyotes.  They often function as mounts or hunting partners for Badclaws.
 
Brute Squad
STR 25, DEX 11, SPD 2, OCV 4, DCV 2
PD/rPD 12/4, ED/rED 10/4, CON 18, BODY 18, STUN 40
War Club (7d6N - avg 24 STUN, 7 BODY) or Rock (5d6 N, +2 OCV vs range, avg 17 STUN, 5 BODY)
+1" Reach, -3" KB, Regeneration 1 BODY/Hour
9" Run
Perception 10-
Mutated humans acting as muscle for hire in the Blasted Lands.
 
Stargazer Cultists
STR 12, DEX 11, SPD 3, OCV 4, DCV 4. 1 combat level
PD/rPD 6/3, ED/rED 6/3, CON 11, BODY 12, STUN 25
Club (4d6N - avg 14 STUN, 4 BODY), Bolt-Thrower (1d6+1K, +2 OCV vs range, avg 12 STUN, 4 BODY)
Some cultists may have minor beneficial mutations - add as needed
6" Run
Perception 11-, Climbing 11-, Riding 11-, Survival 11-, Teamwork 11-, KS: Stargazers 11-
A religious cult that believes the tech of the ancients to be responsible for the Apocalypse.
 

I've played in some of Bill Keyes' Hero games at local conventions, and he did a great job creating thematic sheets showing only what the players needed to play the characters during the adventure.  I think there's a good argument for creating two character sheets for each character - one to use during play, and another to "show the math" that makes the character work.

I've played in some of Bill Keyes' Hero games at local conventions, and he did a great job creating thematic sheets showing only what the players needed to play the characters during the adventure.  I think there's a good argument for creating two character sheets for each character - one to use during play, and another to "show the math" that makes the character work.

I've played in some of Bill Keyes' Hero games at local conventions, and he did a great job creating thematic sheets showing only what the players needed to play the characters during the adventure.  I think there's a good argument for creating two character sheets for each character - one to use during play, and another to "show the math" that makes the character work.

We had a character in one Champions campaign called Trebuchet, who had Shrinking, Usable As Attack, Only To Decrease Mass, Linked to Grab.   I think it was 2 levels of shrinking, and may have had increased mass added to it for grabbing large objects. Since Trebuchet was a 60 STR brick, she could throw things VERY far.

Technically, this Change Environment isn't providing a positive effect to the character in terms of game mechanics.  They are not receiving any OCV, skill rolls, or anything else that will directly help them.  What the power is doing is countering an environmental effect that would give the character a negative effect over time (which results in damage only when it hits a threshold).  Plus, if you defined the radiation as a Change Environment effect doing low-level damage, the GM can allow one Change Environment effect to cancel or negate a similar Change Environment power.

I've played in some of Bill Keyes' Hero games at local conventions, and he did a great job creating thematic sheets showing only what the players needed to play the characters during the adventure.  I think there's a good argument for creating two character sheets for each character - one to use during play, and another to "show the math" that makes the character work.

Technically, this Change Environment isn't providing a positive effect to the character in terms of game mechanics.  They are not receiving any OCV, skill rolls, or anything else that will directly help them.  What the power is doing is countering an environmental effect that would give the character a negative effect over time (which results in damage only when it hits a threshold).  Plus, if you defined the radiation as a Change Environment effect doing low-level damage, the GM can allow one Change Environment effect to cancel or negate a similar Change Environment power.

I know this puts me in disagreement with at least one person who rates as a rules guru-- a guy I have great appreciation for, actually, as he is the one who pointed me toward the original Red October way back when.
 
But I'm kinda with Christopher: I would allow Change Environment to do the job.
 
There are several reasons, the absolute least of which is "what is Change Environment for, anyway?"  Seriously: with the advent of Transformation Attack, and the general mindset of "everything requires super-specific points counting," Change Environment has no reason to exist, period: everything could be done with T-Form.  T-Form radioactive wasteland into non-radioactive wasteland.  Done.  T-Form: Environment.
 
Which, I suspect, means you're changing the environment, which steps on the toes of a power that preceeds T-form and is intended to specifically Change the Environment.
 
We never used to wonder about "Change Environment: Create intense winds" or "create intense magnetic fields" or any of that, until someone decided "Hey!  You need an AoE Telekineses versus X to 'properly model' that!"  Realistically, we still don't worry about it unless someone wants to use it as a controlled attack.
 
We used to use "Change Environment: intense radiation fields" for characters who both manipulated radiation and wanted to take advantage of an enemy's Power Limitations ("Doesn't work in intense radiation fields" and the like).
 
So now we have this weird waffle:
 
Character 1 has "Change Environment: powerful cross winds" and Character 2 has "Telekinesis, no fine manipulation, Area of Effect, Uncontrolled, only to simulate winds," yet they both have the exact same special effects.  Character 2 has an exact amount of STR he applies against flying opponents and people walking around and small cars and what-have-you.  (I'd like to take just a moment to thank players who concoct this build then require me to apply it against every single piece of set dressing because they want to revel in the effects of their power   ) while Character 1 has to trust the GM to take into account the effects of his power and what it does to the people and things within the area.
 
Character 3 has an anti-wind power.  Woo-hoo!  The day is saved!  Or is it?  He's got Change Environment: calm winds.  Too bad he's fighting Character 2, against whom he will need Suppress.
 
 
So what's the difference, other than the build?
 
I don't remember it being spelled out particularly specifically anywhere (though, in all fairness, there are a Hell of a lot of books now, and I'm not LL; I can't remember all of them    ), so I have built a kind of quick-and-dirty rule that keeps the peace at my table:
 
If the "environment" is the result of a character-created attack-based power-- for example, Killing Attack: NND, AoE, Gamma Zone Burst or some such thing, I will allow Change Environment to clean-up the after-effects that may remain, but the attack will have to be dealt with through other means.
 
If the environment does KA: NND, AoE _because it is radioactive_-- say a nuke hit here fifty years ago or whatever, then no problem: Change Environment will work quite handily.
 
 
It's really far too far beyond my bedtime to phrase that any better, but I hope it helps someone.
 
 
I'm going to crash now; you folks have fun.
 
 

I've played in some of Bill Keyes' Hero games at local conventions, and he did a great job creating thematic sheets showing only what the players needed to play the characters during the adventure.  I think there's a good argument for creating two character sheets for each character - one to use during play, and another to "show the math" that makes the character work.

Hero Central, a place online where you could play various flavors of Hero in a play by post format, has been gone for a long time (since 2014, if I remember correctly).  For those of you who played on Hero Central, did you move your games elsewhere, or just stop playing in that format?  Are there any current sites out there that function as a replacement?

It kind of makes comic book sense, where outrageously advanced technology is built by some kid in his basement.  I cam climb walls, I should make web shooters!  Good thing I am an A student in my high school!
 
I preferred Booster Gold's approach though: steal fairly common tech from his time period and go back in time to get rich and famous as a superhero.
 
====================
 
OK attached is the rough draft of the current GM book.  it has a lot of gaps where art and character sheets will go, and the maps will be redone (as they are quite old having been repurposed from 1981 over the years, or just not applicable).
 
The Player Book will be shorter, more art-packed, and focused on jsut what you can do as a player rather than how things work.  THat I'll get to next.
 
WHAT I AM ASKING FOR FROM EVERYONE HERE:
 
Artwork (villain and viper agent costume designs, incidental art, cover art) Editing (check for spelling and grammar, errors in layout, anything forgotten that needs to be in there, and any possible messups in rule explanation) Playtesters (run through the adventure in the format its done with -- as a tutorial -- ideally with new players)  
Please if you can, give me a hand here.  The more we work together on this, the quicker it gets out there for people to use.  That means quick as you can on editing and artwork, if you can contribute.
 
Champions Begins GM Book.pdf

Regarding the cultural / sensitivity issues - the product released in 1989 shouldn't be less problematic than the flagship product of 2012.  Likewise, the rules of 2012 should be more streamlined and efficient than the rules of 1989.
 
Every ruleset appeals to different demographics.  My argument is that Champions Complete, while being a huge improvement from the 6E corebooks in terms of presentation, does not achieve the goal listed on the back of the book.  It is not "an excellent purchase for first time players".  The example villains are worse than the 4E versions.  Two of the villains that show the designers haven't learned anything about cultural issues in 30+ years.  The mechanics for the villains are problematic and not something a new GM can pick up and use quickly.  Even the archetype choices for those villains are odd - a mentalist (one of the rarest character types) is included, but no brick?  Cheshire Cat, despite a poor portrayal of mental illness, is a better villain choice than Green Dragon, who has even worse cultural issues and confusing mechanics.  Armadillo would be a better choice than Arrowhead, as he covers the Brick and Energy Projector rolls without overwhelming a new GM with choices.  There should also be more than 5 examples - there's always Pulsar, the supremely overconfident villain that most groups enjoy taking down a peg.
 
Now, for a person who has experience with HERO, Champions Complete is a decent book.  The character creation section is much better than the one in the original 6E book, and aside from one puzzling design choice involving Growth (why refer the person to a completely different section of the book for that power, but not for Density Increase or Shrinking?), it has no big issues.  However, if the goal is to get someone to play Hero who hasn't played before, it's got problems.  It also doesn't have enough material to run a game.  In contrast, the BBB had an entire Campaign Book built into it with multiple adventures.  I could quibble about the quality of the adventures included - VIPER's Nest is a much better starting campaign - but it at least gave a framework for a new GM to use.
 
I think 4E struck the best balance between playability and complexity.  That said, I've played all the versions since 3E, and my system of choice for Hero is 5E.  If I had the time and money to redesign things, I'd look at making something along the lines of a 4.5E - either 4E taking mechanical improvements from 5E, or 5E ruthlessly edited down to be more like 4E in presentation without a bloated word count.  I don't think figured characteristics are a problem other than the fact that the primary characteristic costs don't properly take them into account.  Of course, there are things we have learned over the decades that could be changed in the system if it received a revamp.  Ditch the complicated Language chart (which remains in Champions Complete), add in a workable metacurrency that is an improvement over Heroic Action Points, etc.

Regarding the cultural / sensitivity issues - the product released in 1989 shouldn't be less problematic than the flagship product of 2012.  Likewise, the rules of 2012 should be more streamlined and efficient than the rules of 1989.
 
Every ruleset appeals to different demographics.  My argument is that Champions Complete, while being a huge improvement from the 6E corebooks in terms of presentation, does not achieve the goal listed on the back of the book.  It is not "an excellent purchase for first time players".  The example villains are worse than the 4E versions.  Two of the villains that show the designers haven't learned anything about cultural issues in 30+ years.  The mechanics for the villains are problematic and not something a new GM can pick up and use quickly.  Even the archetype choices for those villains are odd - a mentalist (one of the rarest character types) is included, but no brick?  Cheshire Cat, despite a poor portrayal of mental illness, is a better villain choice than Green Dragon, who has even worse cultural issues and confusing mechanics.  Armadillo would be a better choice than Arrowhead, as he covers the Brick and Energy Projector rolls without overwhelming a new GM with choices.  There should also be more than 5 examples - there's always Pulsar, the supremely overconfident villain that most groups enjoy taking down a peg.
 
Now, for a person who has experience with HERO, Champions Complete is a decent book.  The character creation section is much better than the one in the original 6E book, and aside from one puzzling design choice involving Growth (why refer the person to a completely different section of the book for that power, but not for Density Increase or Shrinking?), it has no big issues.  However, if the goal is to get someone to play Hero who hasn't played before, it's got problems.  It also doesn't have enough material to run a game.  In contrast, the BBB had an entire Campaign Book built into it with multiple adventures.  I could quibble about the quality of the adventures included - VIPER's Nest is a much better starting campaign - but it at least gave a framework for a new GM to use.
 
I think 4E struck the best balance between playability and complexity.  That said, I've played all the versions since 3E, and my system of choice for Hero is 5E.  If I had the time and money to redesign things, I'd look at making something along the lines of a 4.5E - either 4E taking mechanical improvements from 5E, or 5E ruthlessly edited down to be more like 4E in presentation without a bloated word count.  I don't think figured characteristics are a problem other than the fact that the primary characteristic costs don't properly take them into account.  Of course, there are things we have learned over the decades that could be changed in the system if it received a revamp.  Ditch the complicated Language chart (which remains in Champions Complete), add in a workable metacurrency that is an improvement over Heroic Action Points, etc.

I don’t agree with some of the design decisions for the rules in 6E.  However, I think the bigger problem with 6E in general (and Champions Complete in particular) is not the rules, but the way those rules are used for the source material provided to gamemasters.  It wouldn’t be hard to write up Shrinker in 6E with the functionality of her 4E character sheet, and that would have been a much better example character for Champions Complete to use.  I just don’t see how any GM uses the 6E Shrinker in an adventure for players new to the system.

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said, "Please accept my apologies for writing such a long letter; I did not have time to write a short one."

It appears to be a combination of factors, as others have mentioned: 
There is nothing in the core book where you can print out pregens and run through a starter adventure, like many other RPGs do. The most complex part of Hero is character generation, making the above issue worse. Hero is an old-school system that likes to codify everything, while the current trend is for 'looser' systems. Hero doesn't really have a good meta-currency on par with Fate points, Inspiration, and the like.  I've found every attempt at Hero Points to be clunky and not as intuitive as similar meta-currencies in other systems. There is a lack of promotion due to the company's current state, making it less visible than D&D, Fate, Shadowrun, etc. I'm sure that only scratches the surface, but it's what comes to mind when I think of the reasons Hero isn't more popular these days.

Arrow's previous season finale showed the Monitor meeting Felicity several years in the future, and taking her to Oliver.  It implied that she would die in the process, as she wouldn't be able to come back.  In the comic version of Crisis, the Monitor dies.
My prediction:  That wasn't the Monitor meeting Felicity.  My guess is that the Monitor dies during Crisis and Oliver takes his place, keeping it secret so his family and friends wouldn't be targeted.  It would be the only way Oliver can get a happy ending.
We can all come back to this thread in a few months and laugh about how I got this wrong...

It appears to be a combination of factors, as others have mentioned: 
There is nothing in the core book where you can print out pregens and run through a starter adventure, like many other RPGs do. The most complex part of Hero is character generation, making the above issue worse. Hero is an old-school system that likes to codify everything, while the current trend is for 'looser' systems. Hero doesn't really have a good meta-currency on par with Fate points, Inspiration, and the like.  I've found every attempt at Hero Points to be clunky and not as intuitive as similar meta-currencies in other systems. There is a lack of promotion due to the company's current state, making it less visible than D&D, Fate, Shadowrun, etc. I'm sure that only scratches the surface, but it's what comes to mind when I think of the reasons Hero isn't more popular these days.

My main problem with 6E being the best mechanical system is that my measures of “best” include how easy it is to create a character.  By removing figured characteristics, particularly OCV, DCV, and the mental versions, the game introduced more fiddly bits with less guidance on how to use them.  Figured characteristics weren’t the problem - the costs and calculations were the issue.
 
For example, what if instead of removing OCV, DCV, and SPD as figured characteristics of DEX, we increase the cost of DEX to 5 character points per point, and adjust skill levels so you can buy straight +1 OCV or +1 DCV for 5 points?  Now, you can have the 8 DEX character who still has a competitive OCV and DCV (via skill levels), but there’s less things to keep track of.  You buy DEX and SPD, then add levels if you need more OCV or DCV.  In 6E, you buy DEX, you buy SPD, you buy OCV, you buy DCV...and you still may want to buy levels.  With figured characteristics, new players can see the relationship of DEX to being quick to act, being accurate, and being able to dodge attacks, instead of having to figure out four disconnected stats.
 
One of my big pet peeves about 6E is CON.  You’re basically paying points for one thing - not being stunned.  CON rolls are relatively rare, especially in superhero games, and it’s more efficient to buy higher defenses than to buy up CON.  CON was the stat to showcase figured characteristics - it gave you a good starting point for END, REC, and STUN.  In heroic-level games, I’d usually leave those figured characteristics at the default values, which speeded up character creation.  Even in superhero games, having the figured characteristics gave me a good baseline to work from before increasing to meet the character’s needs for power use and durability.  In 6E, I have to make three additional decisions that were handled by the figured characteristics in 5E.  I don’t want more dials to turn...or at least, I want those dials preset to numbers that will work, instead of having to look at each one and make an additional decision.
 
6E isn’t all bad, though.  When it tried to fix problems through simple adjustments instead of designing entirely new subsystems, it did well (case in point - damage shield).
 
That’s about all I can offer to discussion this late in the evening.  I could add something about opportunity costs, but I already did that in another thread earlier tonight.

More specifically, launching a new edition allows the company the opportunity to spend the next year or more after the core book is released tweaking and rereleasing material they already published in the previous edition.  HERO got to republish Champions, Fantasy HERO, and tons of other sourcebooks.  Yes, they revised mechanics and added new content, but they aren’t starting from scratch.  It’s pretty obvious that reselling Champions for 6E brings in more cash than trying to find some original content that may or may not resonate with customers.
 
The problem HERO ran into is that many customers said, “Hey, this is new enough that I have to redo things, but not different enough to justify the purchase of hundreds of dollars of books.”  Time is also an issue.  There was a 12-year gap between 4E and 5E (1990 to 2002), a 2 year gap between 5E and 5E revised (2004), and 5 years between 5E revised and 6E (2009).  

More specifically, launching a new edition allows the company the opportunity to spend the next year or more after the core book is released tweaking and rereleasing material they already published in the previous edition.  HERO got to republish Champions, Fantasy HERO, and tons of other sourcebooks.  Yes, they revised mechanics and added new content, but they aren’t starting from scratch.  It’s pretty obvious that reselling Champions for 6E brings in more cash than trying to find some original content that may or may not resonate with customers.
 
The problem HERO ran into is that many customers said, “Hey, this is new enough that I have to redo things, but not different enough to justify the purchase of hundreds of dollars of books.”  Time is also an issue.  There was a 12-year gap between 4E and 5E (1990 to 2002), a 2 year gap between 5E and 5E revised (2004), and 5 years between 5E revised and 6E (2009).  

I guess that’s my fault.  I tried to use an example to show mechanical differences and how they affect speed and efficiency, and got dragged way off-topic by people using edge cases and nitpicking instead of addressing the overall issue.
 
So, I’ll just make a few general comments based on my own experience, then go back to lurking:
* 4th Edition felt the most ‘fun’.  5th started the trend of big rulebooks and a mind-numbing level of rules in the quest for perfectly balanced characters.
* Despite the above, 5th did a lot to enable character builds for common situations that were prohibitably expensive in previous editions, such as high-speed movement (thanks to Megascale).
* 6th continued the trend of fixing issues that were unviable in previous editions (such as Damage Shield), at the cost of being even more unfriendly to the new player.
* 6th edition created a situation where the player base is significantly fragmented, as it was different enough to turn off some players while not being different enough to entice new ones.  I believe one poll on this site shows less than half the respondents playing the current version of the ruleset, which is contributing to the drop in popularity.  Heck, we even have another version coming out to further fragment the player base (Champions Now).

I guess that’s my fault.  I tried to use an example to show mechanical differences and how they affect speed and efficiency, and got dragged way off-topic by people using edge cases and nitpicking instead of addressing the overall issue.
 
So, I’ll just make a few general comments based on my own experience, then go back to lurking:
* 4th Edition felt the most ‘fun’.  5th started the trend of big rulebooks and a mind-numbing level of rules in the quest for perfectly balanced characters.
* Despite the above, 5th did a lot to enable character builds for common situations that were prohibitably expensive in previous editions, such as high-speed movement (thanks to Megascale).
* 6th continued the trend of fixing issues that were unviable in previous editions (such as Damage Shield), at the cost of being even more unfriendly to the new player.
* 6th edition created a situation where the player base is significantly fragmented, as it was different enough to turn off some players while not being different enough to entice new ones.  I believe one poll on this site shows less than half the respondents playing the current version of the ruleset, which is contributing to the drop in popularity.  Heck, we even have another version coming out to further fragment the player base (Champions Now).