casualplayer

Re: More Complications, Please Well, if I had known it was you....I would have been more critical! Not really, as I've never been shy about praising your storytelling skills and design theories. But I don't see there being any different strokes, because each of those character thumbnails could easily be hardcoded into 100 pts or more in Complications if hardcoding was the way you roll. It apparently isn't how your group rolls, because it sounds like you're lucky enough to not have a mad dog player who runs away everytime he's let off the leash. Take a peek at the Games I've Walked Out On thread to see how many of those type there are out there; you've probably had a few infiltrate your con games, Bill. The back-and-forthstory conversation you described is how I've been cocreating characters with my players since the 90's. And many of my players played for years without ever having anything on paper, just a chat and some agreed upon principles. The guys who needed structure and formal constraints got structure and formal constraints. The ones who didn't and were trustworthy could roam freely. There's no sanctity of the character point. It's just a convenient meta-method of making the books balance, and I'm perfectly ok with keeping my books in my head. But 100 points worth of Complications isn't arduous or even hard.

Re: More Complications, Please Truckloads and boatloads? I guess it's all relative but if you think those characters are summed up by one Complication I'm going to have to disagree. All three have the Social Comp Secret Identity, and many a plot was spun off from someone about to uncover that identity. All three have a Psych Comp that is some version of Driven by Memory of Dead Relative: Pete's Uncle Ben, Bruce's parents, Clark's whole friggin' planet. All three have a CvK, but many versions of Batman didn't shed tears if villains killed each other while most versions of Superman have CvK at Total commitment. Spidey has With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, Superman has Truth, Justice and the American Way, Batman has serious trust issues. Spider-Man has Hunted: J Jonah Jameson, Superman has Hunted: Lex Luthor, Batman doesn't have Hunted by anybody unless it's one of the versions that has The League of Assassins involved in his origin because you don't accrue Hunteds of the villains you conflict with during the game. Joker could probably take Hunted: Batman though as Batman had a hand in his origin. All three have multiple DNPCs. Spidey has his elderly aunt, Harry Osborn and some girl that went from Liz Allen to Betty Brant to Gwen Stacy to MJ. Superman has Ma and Pa Kent, Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen. Batman has Dr. Thompkins and whoever happens to be his main squeeze (too many to list,) but Alfred and Commisioner Gordon are too competent to count as DNPCs. I guess you don't absolutely need to include Spider-Man's Psych Comp Covers Insecurity with Quips, but one of his trademarks is not being able to keep his mouth shut when he really should have. Probably shouldn't forget Pete's Susceptability to Radiation also. Each of the three has much more to offer. Sinanju, you think Weakness: Kryptonite means Superman and I think Weakness: Kryptonite means generic Kryptonian.

Re: More Complications, Please Now that's just crazy talk. Where do you get these ideas?

Re: More Complications, Please I'm curious also, but have any of you used experience points to buy down Complications? Or had them evolve, as character growth, into a different tendency?

Re: More Complications, Please That's like saying your wife has to make all of your favorite foods every time she makes a meal. Forgive me if I'm skeptical that there are any GMs out there who feel the need to incorporate every one of their players' Complications into every game, or even most. I think most players are happy with one time in the spotlight each game. Some would do cartwheels just to get that one chance to shine. Now what is difficult is GMing characters who haven't sufficiently committed to their character, by indicating what they will and won't do, what motivates them and what dissuades them. One bad day at work and they start firing into the crowd, in my game. I can't plot all the paths someone like that might take. Take a classic starting level character from prose, comics or film and I would be amazed if you had any difficulty coming up in excess of 100 pts in Complications for them, even Heroic level. I could actually list just the Complications and you would be able to tell me what classic character it is, because it is the Complications that define them. I think the higher Base points-lower Complications encourages ill defined characters, characters much less likely to become classics.

Re: More Complications, Please Nope. I feel that a character is done when it is done, not when it has hit campaign maximums. Campaign maximums, including build totals, are like speed limits; instead of being viewed as a ceiling they get viewed as a floor, and lots of people like to see just how much more they can get away with before they get busted. They are how you end up with every single character in your game doing 15d6 damage, having a 5 SPD and a 10 OCV, because that's the caps the GM set. A character with no Complications is a random actor, a loose cannon. You don't know if they will save the hostage or blow a hole through the hostage to get to the terrorist. You don't know whether they will fly right on by or stop the crime. They are amoral and apathetic. Chaotic Neutral assassins. Pure impulse, no direction. Complications are what makes Black Panther, Catman, Batman, Dick Grayson Batman, Moon Knight, Batwoman and Huntress different characters. Their distinctiveness doesn't come from the type of things dangling from their utility belt, and their power sets are virtually identical. If I ask you which of these characters you like best, your answer will probably hinge on a Complication that that preferred character has alone or to a greater degree than the others. I find it difficult to think of any compelling fictional characters that don't have an easy 100 pts or more in Complications. Take a peek at Surbrook's Stuff. House, Duncan Macleod and The Cat Sisters have more than 100 in Complications, and I don't see any padding there because if there was it could have just been rolled into the experience bonus. If the source material we are trying to emulate has that depth, why are we opting for shallow?

Re: The Incredible Hulk A llama?! He's supposed to be dead! Holy crap, was it hard to find an image of Yzma that didn't try to give my computer the clap.

Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo?

Re: More Complications, Please Only if the GM is neglecting the complications of Complications, and ignoring the idea that any GM who allows a character with no Complications deserves what he gets from what he approved. But then again I find the idea of only 100 pts of Complications ludicrous. YMMV, IMO and whatever else will keep people from thinking that I'm judging how you play is "wrong."

Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? The default character is a Remorseless and Conscienceless Cypher built on base points and no more. Woo hoo, let's all play Chaotic Neutral assassins! In exchange for putting some Psychological Complication constraints on your RACC, you get additional points to create your character. EGO Roll to do this, EGO Roll to not do this, slavish devotion to a credo, etc. But if it's not on the character sheet then it's not a rule you have to live by, more of a guideline. This is why so many games insist on some level of CvK because they have been burned in the past by the "hero" throwing a busload of nuns at the villain, or something similar, and the game ground to a halt while the GM was shaking off the "Wait, what?"s. You can't plan out a game for characters that might do anything at anytime. But you also can't scribble down every tendency that a character might have. That's exhaustive and I game to be exhilarated. You have to have an assumptive state and, for modern-era humans at least, working with All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarden isn't such a bad thing. Again, guidelines not rules, but a radical, out-of-character departure from these guidelines might make me as a GM levy some repercussions.

Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis I should also say that point limits and point efficiency have mattered to me never. My time-tested group were initially made on point totals ranging from 260 (the NCM martial artist) to 385 (the Thor-analogue powerhouse.) The martial artist could hit you almost always with a 12d6 Roundhouse Kick and the powerhouse could hit you with a 18d6 punch paired with an 18d6 explosion, something he got to use rarely unless he wanted to take out his own team as well. In a game where the focus is squeezing every bit of oomph out of your maximum point allotment, NCM is probably too much of a burden to take. In a game where you are content to play the character you want to play and not spend too much time worrying about how you match up against your own teammates, let alone your adversaries, it's not such a big deal. For me gaming is whether you can overcome your own self-imposed limitations, because the GM can always throw something at you that you can't beat. I've learned that I can't put my characters up for review because I always get suggestions on how to make them 'more efficient,' and efficiency was never the point. The most efficient way to game is a MMORPG, sitting alone staring at a screen with a headset on, and that's not what holds my interest.

Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis

Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo?

Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Not cleaning up TK was one of the great disappointments of 6th Edition. HERO works best when powers are rendered down to first principles and the player gets to advantage and limit as they see fit, seasoning to taste, IMO. Guys, a sniper rifle is not Inobvious or IPE by any means. It's just a power that is designed to be used at a distance that makes the PER Roll really, really hard in most cases. If I shoot you point blank with a sniper rifle it's pretty easy to make that PER Roll and know who the triggerman was; if I shoot you from 300 meters away, good luck making the PER Roll after the range modifiers are applied. Visible doesn't mean automatic PER success, it just means you get to make a PER Roll at all. IPE TK is absolutely devastating to a particular archetype, the Gadgeteer, and should be costed accordingly. Strictly speaking TK also justifies Flight Usable as Attack, Ranged which is devastating to many other archetypes as well. It's a subtle, versatile, awesome power and if its intensity is not metered accordingly can dominate your game.

Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Guess it depends on if you are shooting for realism or heroic realism. With realism the brunt of Americans have a nudity taboo that probably gives them a -1 Overall Level when nekkid or some such. Consider it an Everyman Complication. With heroic realism there's always something that interposes between the viewer's vantage and the protagonist's naughty bits so dignity is preserved, or they are a Combat Wombat and wombats don't care if they have no underpants.

Re: The Incredible Hulk Back in the day, Pete and Ben were armwrestling on Arkon's World and pretty much deadlocked until Pete was distracted by jailbait in gauze. Pete had some good brick bits in that annual too, taking on the Ultra-Badoon and falling from an insanely high tower. Thing and Hulk have an xp headstart on Colossus, and Hulk has been raking in the whole haul from his own book, but Pete is still a force to be reckoned with. If he anchored his own book for any length of time he would quickly get elevated to the upper eschelons. I would put him as a slightly more resilient Doc Samson.

Re: Storn's Art & Characters thread. I see some Windsor-Smith in there. Beautiful.

Re: Campaign Concept Source: "No Ordinary Family" Previously they were trying to go head-to-head with Glee. Get moved once and it's a show of faith. Get moved twice and you're just filler.

Re: Spiderman's Web

Re: Spiderman's Web

Re: Spiderman's Web Stretching. If an anchoring point is within range Spidey can use his webbing to perform just about all the skills and manuevers that he can do at arm's reach, including breaking his or someone else's fall. His catch nets are like a persistent limited Extra Limb working with his Stretching.

Re: Coming up with terminology for humans who turn into superhumans using "-thrope" Excelsusanthrope - higher, elevated man. Slang version is Excels.

Re: Campaign Concept Source: "No Ordinary Family" If I'm not a Neilsen family, which would be hard to be since I don't have cable, my tv watching doesn't even register a blip, a blip that gets ran through the statistics meatgrinder to determine market share. The producers know exactly how many people are watching shows through Hulu and they also bring in ad revenue there. Hulu FTW!

Re: Campaign Concept Source: "No Ordinary Family" Whereas I watch both shows on Hulu! Screw appointment tv.

Re: Order of the Stick Mostly a commentary on how a 1st level D&D character used to be able to take potentially lethal damage roughhousing with their housepet. Combination of formerly rolling for starting HP and the somewhat ridiculous damage dealing ability given to cats in the Monster Manual. Then there's the whole gaming cognitive disconnect of arena scenarios. If the gladiatorial pits are full of viable threats to the PCs, why can't they just overpower the guards and escape? If the guards are such powerhouses that they can keep a whole room full of PC-equivalent people in line, the PCs have no chance. So you end up with smack-talking 1st level Commoners. It's not like NPCs have their level stamped on their foreheads.