Hyper-Man

The best approach I have found for these kinds of effects is to begin with defining what you want the defense to be.  

Range based on STR is an Advantage when applied to a no range power and a Limitation when applied to a ranged power.

Question asked and answered in rules forum:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/96811-grabs-vs-objects-and-grabs-vs-characters/?tab=comments#comment-2645500

Hi Steve,

6e2 p26 states that a character would not normally be able to stop a flying object using a Grab without also having flight.

Does this rule also apply to stopping a flying character with a grab since characters are also objects? This assumes that the flyer has the STR to carry the mass of the grabber but not necessarily enough to break the grab.

Thanks.

I'm leaning towards keeping both free.

Both require 1/2 phase and 1/2 DCV.

One gives more bonus PER and some bonus Iniative. The other gives more Init. Both only vs. expected directions. 

I don't have easy access to it from my phone but it seemed more about buying rank perks to then qualify for buying advanced abilities. There are some neat ones.

22 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well considering you can deflect for free (no range) depending on sfx/GM permission, I think the general rule for Grab is odd.

I think the general rule is a result of the GURPy nature of the default assumptions. HERO 6e is not supposed to be Champions centric by default. It's supposed to be generic.

I just checked the PDFs and the 5er wording for Braced is virtually identical to the 6e quote above. I agree that a sling should add something too. I would probably allow half moves when bracing with a sling.

I have an iPhone 6s with 128gb storage over 50% free. I think I have just about EVERY free app storage or otherwise installed. Accounts are not setup for all. I opened the example character from 'files downloaded to phone'.  Once open any tab beyond combat will not scroll down.  It will start to scroll but bounces back to the top when I let go.

Yay. I can load the example character now. However, I can't scroll down to see all abilities in a single category  .

23 minutes ago, Sean Waters said:

I believe that there is inconsistency in the rules in the name of 'game balance'.  If two people pay the same for their flight (30m) then they should get the same benefits and effects (or at least balanced ones).

 

I do not like rules that are there for balance.  I would prefer rules that simulate reasonable expectation and if my 800 kg 50m flight 60 STR brick is grabbed by a 100kg no flight 35 STR character standing on the ground, even if the casual breakout roll fails I would not expect the character to come to a dead stop.

 

The problem is that is what the rules say happens.

No. The general rule says that grabs stop movement. The specific rule that I have now quoted twice actually agrees with your expectation.

Unless you believe characters are not also objects...

suboptimal

There are multiple threads on this very subject with several good fan made 6e screens linked to or attached. 

55 minutes ago, Tom Cowan said:

maybe use the 5 point adder to buy 2x the power

Do you mean the Equipment Doubling rule? Even just buying multiple instances of TK will not accomplish the stated goal of performing simultaneous but different actions with TK. That seems like something that would require either Multiple Attack, Combined Attack or just extra limited SPD.

The more I think about it the better approach may be to replace Selective with Accurate and 0 End and then use the Multiple Attack rules (the 6e version of Sweep for hth and ranged). That would allow separate attack actions vs a 3DCV +2/# of attacks after the first in a single Phase.

I would consider a custom version of Extra Limbs applied to TK.

Why not just use Healing?

1 minute ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I like to use accurate as a flurry of punches. It represents many punches thrown but one hits.

Or a super-fast punch like Bruce Lee's character used in his tournament match against O'Hara as well as true speedsters like Flash and Quicksilver.

It fits several several special effects better than CSLs or PSLs. Examples include Heat Vision (looking at something should be easier than punching it), the 'magic missiles' fired by Tony Stark at terrorists in the first Iron man movie (the HUD and Jarvis). It also works better with Frameworks as GM permission is required to include levels in slots.

I normally include a Limitation making the attack Blockable/Defectable and Dodgeable. A commonly overlooked consequence is a relatively easier Block/Deflect roll since there is no change to OCV for attacker or defender.

Believe it or not I'm all in favor of having fun at the game table. This includes making on the fly rulings in the interest of time.  But when it later turns out that the on-the-fly rule wasn't actually needed because there was already a specific case rule that overrides the general rule I try very hard to point it out to everyone for future use.

On 3/12/2018 at 5:58 AM, Hyper-Man said:

From 6e2 page 26:

 

Once he’s in position, use the basic “stopping moving objects” rules, above, to determine if he can get a hold on the object and start to slow it down. Typically, a character needs to have an appropriate Movement Power to stop a resisting object — a superhero who lacks Flight usually can’t Grab a flying object and use his STR to slow it down, since he has no way to counter its forward momentum. The GM may waive this rule in appropriate circumstances.

A flying character is also a flying object.

Therefore the rule above applies to a flying character as well and no custom or sfx rules are needed.

Good grief....

Who are those guys?

I hope it is augmented with cgi because I've seen much better fan created versions in the Ross/original style.

On 3/11/2018 at 3:42 AM, Sean Waters said:

 

First of all, I know that the KBR should not be in a framework, but it seems to fit well and is not unbalancing  so I would seek GM permission.  Anyway, you could activate the Fly and go fast, or the fly and missile deflect and approach more cautiously or the fly and resistant defence and approach even more cautiously (or just stay hovering in the air...).  I might even increase the active points to 60 and reduce the KBR to 10 so you could turn off the flight completely and go full defensive.

 

You could add 'Swan Strike' and use the wings as a weapon - oh so much you could do.

 

I have not added much subtlety because:

1. I'm not sure it is needed and

2. This will be a superhero game, so reality is not necessary

 

I have not included 'restrainable as flight stops if you are grabbed or entangled anyway so it would not apply.

Slot 4 has issues besides just being a special power. It's also unnecessary.  Slot 1 can already be used to resist knockback from 1 direction. As built, your framework allows the character to be moving at up to 30m and still have a static 20m kb resistance simultaneously which doesn't appear to match the sfx. Also, 1 real point does not seem an appropriate cost to eliminate the 1/2 dcv imposed by using movement to resist kb.

Its a pretty rare circumstance that a non-flying brick grabs a flying-brick. That's probably the reason Steve didn't spell out the common sense ruling for this case in the books. Regardless, the rule above should override the general grab vs movement rules which are not superpower centric - they usually assume normal characters.