Hyper-Man

No.
 
First lets assume that all characters have the same Dex and for some reason the Spd 6 character goes after the speed 4 character.
 
A speed 6 character goes on 2,4,6,8,10,12.  A speed 4 character goes on 3,6,9,12.  If a speed 3 character moves and attacks, on segment 3.  The speed 6 character can attack on segment 4.  Now the speed 3 character can do a move by or move through and finish their move behind some barrier or they can abort to do something defensive on segment 4 but the speed 6 character will get to act first.  In a turn the speed 6 character will have had their action on segment 2 which they can hold till the bottom of segment 3 or use their segment 4 action to attack.

I'm not sure Chaosium had CoC or Stormbringer out before DDG. Wiki suggests DDG in 1980, CoC in 1982, so it may have been licensed at the time, almost certainly before a second DDG printing.
 
Here we go...
 

Anyway, clearly a tangent - back to Mythic Hero!

Supercavitating bullets for underwater use
 
A 60m underwater range for .50 is pretty spectacular.  You could actually reach a sub at periscope depth with that, though perhaps not puncture it.

something similar was the basis of the Fin stabilized 30mm round used in the RAMICS anti-mine system.   IIRC it would pentrate over 2 inches of steel at 60 or 80 meters.   Seemed to me it would disable subs well...

Yup, that's true. At this point it's all idle speculation. I've never done a book set with a slipcase though, so it's fun to daydream about.

Wow.
 
Thanks for all that!  It sounds amazing!
 
It really didn't take me that long to write that outline, because I wrote it a long time ago.  What took a while was finding it in the *old* section of these threads.
 
My main problem with the old deendee DDG* was that even though it tells me that this particular god wields a +4 spear that does 4d10 of damage, it gives me no clues about what I'm supposed to do if I'm one of his clerics or worshipers.
 
*I have the first edition, with Cthulhu and Elric and all the other copyright-violating stuff.  It might be worth some money on eBay.

Whether MH should be one book or two (or more) would probably merit a separate discussion once the book is closer to completion.

Sorry I missed this question earlier, Zephrosyne. Mea culpa.
 
Honest -- I don't know. I can't know that until I'm finished with the writing and a rough layout is mocked up. At this point I don't know whether I can publish it as one volume, or two or more will be required.
 
I can offer this as a data point though. 6E1 & 2 are combined about 550,000 words. The MH manuscript, which is far from finished, is currently at 425,000 words. So make of that what thou wilst.

First off, PhilF, let me say Thanx! for taking so much time to write out what you'd like to see in Mythic Hero. It's always great to hear from fans who have strong opinions about a book and are willing to express them in a polite and constructive manner. So take 2 XP out of petty cash and treat yourself to something nice -- maybe an CSL with your favorite attack.
 
On to answers and observations about the points you made.
 
1. When I started writing MH back in 2011, it was still a Hero Games project rather than a personal project, and the guys around the office jokingly called it "Steve's Deities & Demigods." So I'm afraid I have to disappoint you a bit by explaining that the main thrust of MH, by and large, is to provide character sheets for the gods and heroes of world mythology (including game stats for weapons and other objects of myth).
 
However, the operative phrase here is Steve's DDG. I have the deepest respect for the authors of the DDG, a book I love and treasure, but to compare the DDG to MH is like comparing The Pokey Little Puppy to War And Peace. When I write about gods and mythoi, I include far, far more information than the DDG does. I cover the cosmology, the setting, the magic system (if one exists that's worth writing up in game terms), the major myths pertaining to each god and hero (and often the minor ones), relevant monsters and villains, and all sorts of other great stuff.
 
By way of example, look at the Hindu Mythology chapter in the DDG. If memory serves, it's 7 or 8 pages long, and more than half of those pages are basically whitespace. The Hindu Mythology chapter in MH is over 70,000 words long -- and most of that's not game stats, believe me. When I set out to cover a mythos, I cover it. In fact, there's so much info in MH that I am considering a separate publication where I strip out the gaming-related information and put out a book with just the researched, scholarly material.
 
(Another fun data point:  the bibliography for MH, which is far from complete at this time, is already over 6,000 words long. So if you want to follow up on my work, you'll know where to start. )
 
1a. Are you going to be fighting the gods? Quite possibly! World mythology is replete with stories of conflicts between gods and mortals -- be those conflicts physical, mental, social, magical, or just plain weird. And for that I think a character sheet can be helpful. Plus, as you observe, someone may want to play God vs. God, or pit two Greek heroes against some dudes from Aztec myth, or what have you.
 
1b.  But here's the great thing:  you can completely ignore the character sheets if you want to. Just flip on past 'em and read the text (and look at what I plan to be awesome artwork!). The fact that they're there for gamers who want them doesn't mean the book is pointless for gamers who don't want them.
 
1c. Plus, even if you don't want the character sheets as a whole, you might find bits of them -- like the HERO System stats for Mjolnir, or Zeus's thunderbolts, or Maui's magic fishhook -- useful or fun to have. If nothing else they're good argument fodder.
 
1d. In the final analysis, though, it comes down to this:  I want to do character sheets for gods. And this project is all about me doing what I find fun, fascinating, and hopefully of use to a lot of gamers. I've been at it for years, and have years to go. I'm not going to make any money off of it -- in fact, I expect to spend tens of thousands of dollars out of my own pocket bringing the book to print. So I'm going to do it exactly how I want to do it, and that means character sheets for gods.
 
2.  Pretty much everything in your Section II is covered in the character sheets for the individual deities, or when they don't have a sheet just in the text describing them. (Though of course many gods aren't important enough to merit more than a line or two explaining who they are.) Naturally, not every god gets the same coverage; sometimes certain data are available for God X but not for Gods Y and Z. But I am doing (literally) years' worth of research about all this stuff so you don't have to!
 
3.  Virtually nothing that you describe in your Section III will be in MH. That's not the purpose of the book; that's an entirely separate subject. If and when I happen to come across a useful detail about priests or temples or what not, I often throw it into the text, but most gods don't have any info about that sort of thing. After all, in many cases, those details are simply unknown to modern scholars.
 
However, all that being said, I have an idea for a stretch goal for the Kickstarter I'll hold for the book. It's to write a second book, in PDF, which would provide a one-page description (no more) of the priesthood, temple, etc. of any god important enough to get a character sheet in MH. But these would be entirely fictional -- where I know real world details I will use them, but for the most part I am just going to make things up to create religions that are appropriate for gaming.
 
There will be some information and guidelines for creating your own pantheons and gods for your games, but I don't plan for it to be extensive (at least, not right now). Again, that's not really the main focus of the book.
 
4.  Virtually nothing that you describe in your Section IV will be in MH. However, where the material justifies it, I have written up complete magic systems for the magics specific to a mythology and/or its culture. To name just a few, I've already written up Finnish, Egyptian, Hawaiian, East Slavic (Russian), and Australian Aborigine magic systems. In fact, I have enough new magic systems that after MH comes out, I may extract them and publish them separately for gamers who don't want all the mythology stuff.
 
 
It occurs to me that it might help people see what I'm talking about if I provided a sample chapter. I'll ponder on that, and if I like the idea I will mock up a crude layout and provide a link.
 
Anyhow -- I hope that helps to explain where I'm comin' from. If you have further suggestions or questions, by all means fire away!

Hi.  Remember me?  I've been away a long time, and I probably wouldn't even have bothered to reply to this thread (I haven't read all 17 pages of it), were it not for the fact that it was this very topic that prompted me to come back to this website.  I was looking for a post I made in the Fantasy Hero threads, called "Stuff to Make up about the Gods".
 
The main concern I would have with a book like this is whether it will be too much like Deities & Demigods from that other system.  IMO, it was a stupid book.  All the gods statted out like characters?  Are we going into combat with these guys?  Meanwhile, all the actual information that would have been useful for the game was missing.  How is this god worshiped?  What does this god want from me?  From his clerics?  From the world?  What are this gods goals and values?  What's the structure and status of the religion?  What am I required to do?  What am I forbidden to do?  What happens if I break the rules?  How do I deal with members of other religions?  etc.
 
That's what I'd want to know about the gods, not their stats and combat abilities.  Yes, I suppose it's possible to run a game where the players are gods themselves, or at least have god-level power, and might indeed go toe-to-toe with Zeus or Ra or Odin or maybe even Chuck Norris.  And yes, Hero system would probably be a great system to do that with, but I don't think most players and GMs run "god arena" games.
 
So anyway, I found the post I was looking for, and here it is, (with typos corrected) in case you haven't thought of this stuff yet:
 
I. The pantheon
A. Creation myth
1. Creation of the natural world
2. Creation of people
B. Organization
1. Family tree
2. Command structure
a) Rigid-fluid
b.) Degree of authority/control
3. Relationships between deities
a) Couples
b.) Allies/Partners
c) Rivals/enemies
C. Reality
1. Form. Examples:
a) The gods are all myth/superstition.
b.) The gods are legends based on exaggeration of historical events.
c) The gods are spirits of dead ancestors or other historical persons.
d) The gods are abstract concepts with no actual consciousness.
e) The gods are quasi-real with forms/attributes/aspect assigned by worshiping cultures.
f) The gods exist on a different level of reality, which allows them to modify their aspects/appearance based on their own desires or the culture they interact with.
g) The gods exist in a concrete sense and have true forms/attributes/aspects, which may be subject to interpretation/misinterpretation by worshipers.
h) The gods (at least some of them) are natural forces/phenomena which may or may not have consciousness, e.g., there is no "god of the sun" - the sun *is* a god.
2. Power Level. Examples:
a) The gods are nothing more than mere mortals that are worshiped.
b.) The gods are mere mortals believed to rise to divinity upon death or other event.
c) The gods are somewhat more powerful than typical mortals.
d) The gods have great power that only the greatest of mortals could rival.
e) The gods have incredible power beyond any mortal.
f) The gods have cosmic power, incomprehensible to mortals.
3. Power Source. Examples:
a) The gods' power is intrinsic.
b.) The gods' power is granted by superior gods.
c) The gods' power comes from external forces.
d) The gods' power comes from natural phenomena related to the gods' portfolio.
e) The gods' power comes from worship.
f) The gods' power comes from mortals' deeds.
II. The deity
A. Symbolic
1. Name(s)
2. Epithets/Nicknames
3. Appearance/Typical depiction
4. Symbol/Icon
5. Associated items/animals/materials/colors/phenomena
B. Intrinsic
1. Myth/Story
2. Portfolio/Sphere of influence
3. Differences/similarities to other deities
4. Stats/powers/abilities
a) Possessions/Artifacts/Relics
b.) Pets/Familiars/Mounts
5. Divine "rank"/Level of power
6. Home
a) "Plane" where the deity dwells
b.) Relationship of the deity to the "plane(s)"
C. Psychology/behavior
1. Personality
2. Goals/desires
3. Degree of involvement in mortal affairs
a) Manifestations/Avatars
b.) Spells/powers/abilities granted to clergy/worshippers
c) Signs/Miracles
D. Social
1. Among the gods
a) Reputation
b.) Position/function/purpose
2. Among mortals
a) Popularity/Obscurity
b.) Purpose of worship/reasons invoked
c) Abilities/skills typical/valued
III. The religion
A. Internal
1. Principles
a) Values/Dogma
b.) Obligations/expectations of clergy
c) Obligations/expectations of laity
d) Laws/taboos/restrictions
e) Attitude toward heresy/disagreement/questioning of doctrine/theology
f) Theology: What the gods are, their nature and aspects.
g) Theology: Afterlife, other "planes" of existance.
2. Practice
a) Rituals/Rites
b.) Holidays
c) Prayers
d) Priestly Vestments/Raiment
e) Temple architecture/layout/decor
f) Expressions/idioms
g) Equipment/paraphernalia used
h) Resolution of disputes
i) Punishment/penance/atonement
j) Education/Indoctrination of the faithful
k) Proselytism
3. Status of clergy/laity
4. Sects/factions/orders
5. Organization/hierarchy
B. External
1. Position in the community
2. Relations with other religions
C. Race/ethnicity/location/culture of worshipers
1. Alternate interpretations/aspects
2. Alternate names
IV. "Divine Magic"
A. Effects
1. Types of effects available/not available
2. Power Level
3. Special Effects
B. Source/Method to acquire/use. Examples:
1. No actual divine magic exists. Priests don't claim any magic.
2. No actual divine magic exists. Priestly magic is all chicanery.
3. There's no real difference between divine magic and "arcane" magic.
4. Divine magic is an inherent force in the world, separate from wizardly magic. Priests access it by their own means.
5. Divine magic is a fragment of the god's or gods' power, which priests access by being priests or doing something that priests do.
6. Gods grant magic to priests directly and consciously, if they choose to.
7. Gods grant magic to priests through intermediaries or lesser divine beings, with occasional oversight by the god(s).
8. Gods grant higher-powered magic to priests directly and consciously, while lesser magic is granted more-or-less automatically.
9. Priests access magic through their own faith, without the god's direct involvement. Strength of faith determines success or power level.
 
Not that you'd necessarily need to fill in *all* of these details for every single god/pantheon, or even any of them.  It's just a list of things that might be relevant.  I came up with this as a guideline for creating ones own custom mythos for a game world.  I assume there will be some text devoted to how to create your own gods.
 
And BTW, I lived in Hawaii for a while when I was a kid, and learned about the Hawaiian gods.  I actually wrote them up way back when, when I was playing this other RPG system.  The gods book from that system had me believing at the time, that gods needed full write-ups like characters or monsters.  
 
EDIT:  And one other thing to possibly include about gods/religions is their eschatology.  And if you don't know what "eschatology" means, don't worry about it, it's not the end of the world.

I'm still attached to the Earth, via the bonds of gravity as well as a certain sentimental fondness for the planet where I still keep all my stuff. I just moved away from the Hero System after the last Here There Be Monsters campaign I ran (which is all 6th edition), and roleplaying in general. This is due mostly to changing life circumstances (kids, job, other hobbies, a sort of pervasive lack of available free time), as well as a shift in appreciation towards more narrative games. I also drifted away from posting on these forums as I was doing increasingly less Hero System related gaming but also because many of the people I enjoyed collaborating or trading posts with also drifted away, though some remain.
 
Also these forums have themselves experienced some vicissitudes over the years and there were times when I would have posted but the site was experiencing difficulties or I could no longer find some old post I wanted to reference and had no desire to rehash old ideas all over again without aid of just referring back to a thread that already covered the same ground. And of course, after the couple hundreth thread on how to model a vancian magic system or quibbling over how to do magic missile or light or whatever, my attention wanders. There is some kind of existential limit on how many times a person can cover the same intellectual ground and remain interested in it; some ideas in this domain have been so often re-tread over the years that I just no longer am inspired to spend energy or time on treading that same ground once more. Jadedness, ennui, operational fatigue, "been there, done that, figured it out, moved beyond it"; call it what you will...I just don't have anything new to say on the subject and don't care to keep repeating myself. 
 
I still love the Hero System in general, and I spent more years playing it than any other game system if measured pound for pound, ounce per ounce of games run and time spent...over two decades of time of actively using the rules for a wide variety of genres and campaigns and occasional one offs. 
 
As far as 6e vs 5e, the differences in the editions is not very large for the most part. In the large majority of cases taking a 5e effect and simply re-expressing it in 6e terms is simple, and in many cases results in a more or less identical write up. Occasionally there is a more effective 6e way to approach a problem, but the 5e way is still a viable one; after all the Hero System is the way of many ways to model the same idea. The situations where a 5e approach is no longer viable at all and an entirely new 6e way of approaching the problem is required are pretty seldom, but generally easy to navigate when encountered. Pretending that 5e material is irrelevant to the current mores of the system or of no value when looking for ideas that are re-usable or mine-able for a 6e game isn't really warranted, in my opinion. 
 
As to the content contributed by others, I don't generally editorialize that material unless invited to. The material presented is intended to be used or not as people see fit; though no one has ever accused me of having insufficient ego, I don't take the position that my material or opinions on how things might be done is more important than that of other Hero System aficionados. Rather I post people's material when asked to as a service to the community. I wouldn't post contributions that I were offended by, or were disinterested in, or that were of low overall quality, or if it would just take me too much time to get it into a format friendly to the site (such as content in the form of word docs). Otherwise if someone has a body of work they want to share and they want to use my site as the platform from which to do it, and it doesn't take more time than I have to give to it, I post it for them.
 
If you or others disagree with a given contributor's material, you are welcome to take it up with them; if they take your feedback to heart and submitted altered versions of their material I would do my best to get their contributions updated and pushed out to the site in a timely fashion. 
 
As to eepjr24 specifically, he did a lot of work for the betterment of the site by going through the thousands of hero game effects that were corrupted when my site got hacked by a malicious injection attack some years ago that forced me to purge all of the effect names and notes. This took weeks of labor on his part, and was an amazingly generous thing for him to spend his time on. I did mildly edit some of his material such as his Soldier package to provide an example of a different way to lay out abilities and to offer more configurable options to allow broader re-use, and the magic system write up of his Warlock system (embedded in the package) to tune it up a bit, but by and large I posted it exactly as he submitted it without editorial interference. In all our dealings, eepjr24 struck me as a very reasonable and well-meaning person eager to use the Hero System and still in the honeymoon phase of his enjoyment with the game. Perhaps if you sought him out with constructive criticism, a useful collaboration or positive feedback loop could be established between you, and it is not inconceivable that he might submit updates or new content more to your liking. 
 
 
 
You are also welcome to provide me with your own versions of things that you feel are more correct or relevant and if we come to an accord I will add your stuff to the site as time allows.

I get the point you are making but my first thought when reading your post was "Playing Batman would still be pretty fun".
 

There are other trope aspects to magic besides mystery, although that is one of them. Unpredictability and consequences are two others that I can think of off the top of my head.  The former is not that magic is mysterious, necessarily, but that we don't know exactly what it will do when invoked.  The latter is that using magic either costs the caster something serious, or has other far reaching consequences.  Gandalf was reluctant to use magic for fear of giving away his position to bad guys who might be attuned to that sort of thing; Ogion refused to magic away a rainstorm for fear of not knowing how it would affect the weather elsewhere.  There is some overlap between these and mysteriousness but this way we can recapture some of the feel of magic without having to hide the mechanics from the players.
 
For the characters, of course, who can't see the game system, it's probably still incomprehensible how a wizard can incinerate an orc army just by saying something weird and wiggling his fingers.  Just like IT or auto mechanics.

It's not just in Hero that Animal Friendship can be expensive -
 
https://www.moneyunder30.com/the-true-cost-of-pet-ownership
 
The first year of having either a dog or cat can easily cost over a thousand bucks.
 
Lucius Alexander
 
But having a palindromedary is priceless

Yes, and I disagree with said suggestions almost every time they are leveled in a thread in which I am participating in. I believe that hiding your work just makes it harder for new players to learn the rules. I much prefer to provide reasonably detailed descriptions to accompany pregenerated Game Elements. 

Are you kidding?  Its one of the few major super powers to take down Galactus.  
Supergenius Power Cosmic Infinity Guantlet Cosmic Cube Ability to win and influence squirrels 

I try to keep as small of an amount of serious stuff in my brain as possible at all times!
 
HM

I try to keep as small of an amount of serious stuff in my brain as possible at all times!
 
HM

I try to keep as small of an amount of serious stuff in my brain as possible at all times!
 
HM

I try to keep as small of an amount of serious stuff in my brain as possible at all times!
 
HM

Hyperman, who is a good friend of mine IRL, was admitted to the hospital on Thursday. Since then, he has had surgery and is doing much better. He will likely be transferred to physical therapy in the next day or two. He asked me to let everyone here know because he isn't really able to type at the moment, but we expect he will be back soon.

Tell him to ask for an extra couple of blankets at night. That'll make it easier to get a good blanket rope going so he can escape and return to us.

Yikes, best wishes to Hyper-Man for a speedy recovery.

It's good to hear from you, HM. I don't really know what to say, and things like "Be well" sound woefully inadequate. But I wish you the best. I think I can say that we all do.