Portland Barbie

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Hero Companion: Heavy Fighters The term issue is a good example of the negative aspects of trying to create an extremely detailed package, as was done in the OP. Many players would perceive the term "heavy fighter/warrior" differently, and assume it allowed them the type of warrior they wanted. In this example, I believe Killer Shrike has some good examples on his website, where you start off with a simple, generic template (say one that focuses on STR, CON, and STUN/BODY, with a small "standardized" skill list, which is added to by additional templates (like one focusing on lighter armor and heavy weapons, a second on lighter weapons and heavier armors, and a third on lighter weapons with reach and medium armors specializing in mounted combat). All three of these could qualify as a heavy fighter, but will vary widely in their stats, as each focuses on a completely different combat style. Yes, this may cause the player to spend as many points as a single detailed template may cost, but it does allow for more customization (and this concept could be included in a single template with multiple "select one of the following" options).

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? In this situation, the GM failed to meet the burden of multiple races, imo. Yeah, he was focusing on the race/culture/etc. but that is no reason to limit the player's options. If player 1 wants to play an elf, and doesn't like the "culture" the elves have in the GM's setting, then he can, feasibly play a different type of elf, but by doing so, he is playing an elf who is shunning his own culture, and would suffer negative reactions from other elves, more so than members of a different race, imo. These negative reactions may even trickle over into members of other races . . . Yes, trying to play a civilized, cultured member of a savage, barbaric society is a stretch, but if the player is willing to go through the effort, then let him go for it, as long as the player understands the GM may need to reign the character in from time to time, just to save verisimilitude . . . Also, if player 2 wants to play an elf from LotR, and that concept doesn't mesh too well with the established elves of the campaign setting, then mayhap the GM might point out another race that does fall into the concept the player wants . . . Yes, I understand that there are those players out there who are unwilling to play anything beyond a single concept/culture/race/personality; I've had one in my games for the last ten years. And those players are hard to satisfy if their archetypical character doesn't fit into the GM's world. At this time it's on both the player and the GM to find a compromise . . . If the player is new, and is unwilling to budge, then the best thing for the group might just be to say good-bye to him, and let him find the group that supports his archetype. On the flipside, if the player has been part of the group for a long time, and the new campaign setting doesn't allow his archetype, he may view this as a slap to the face by the GM . . . But i digress, we're getting more into group dynamics and away from the OP . . .

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? This.

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? And oddly enough, you just validated my entire argument with this post, even after you "attacked" it (not really upset, everyone has their own opinion, was just pointing this out)

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Hero Companion: Heavy Fighters

Re: Detailed (mundane) armor I'm not sure if i could justify to myself a reason to have a different level of rPD than PD for armor, since rPD applies to Killing Damage, and that's the whole reason to wear armor in FH . . . but since I'm using the Hit Locations in my game, I did vary the level of protection provided to the various locations depending on the suit of armor. Now, since I'm running a simplified game (nothing really more than an extended dungeon crawl with a single town to sell loot) to introduce new players to both role-playing and HERO, it's not as complex as it could be . . .

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? Exactly. There's no hard-set number of races/cultures/species that, once exceeded, suddenly makes the game unbearable, or whatever. My post you quoted was not stating anything about it becoming burdensome to the GM at a certain point, at least not as I'm assuming you took it. My reference to " . . . the burden of the GM" was in regards to making sure the number of races/cultures/species doesn't become too much for both him/her and the players. Once the game world becomes so inundated with variations of humanoids that it becomes difficult for the GM to maintain the "uniqueness" of each race, then it's become too much. Naturally this will vary depending on the individual GM, and to a lesser extent, the players since even if the GM can managably juggle 100 different races, without them blurring into "different looking humans with weird abilities", if the players don't really pay attention to the type of humanoid it is beyond the differentiation between "helpfiul npc" and "monster/source of loot" then there's not really a point for the GM to even put forth the effort. And looking through the posts in this thread, I think the answer to the OP can be easily summed up as "it depends on the feel of the campaign, and the play-style of your players, combined with how much effort you are willing to put forth to make the races seem unique, and not just a set of abilities and different veneer thrown onto humans."

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? Just throwing my two cents into the ring . . . for those of you who don't like the idea of non-human races in your world, the op could be changed to "how many cultures/different societies become too much." As you've been apt to point out, a new race is nothing more than a huyman with a different veneer, which I disagree with when done right, so it comes down to this: How many different race/species/culture/society options becomes too much in a fantasy game setting? And like my original post, I'll posit that it becomes a burden of the GM, and that the answer is however many he can portray as a unique race/species/culture/society without it turning into the whole "you're sitting in the tavern and up walks a stranger . . . " commonality. It will vary from game to game, player to player, and GM to GM.

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? Personally, I don't think it comes down to a specific number. Yeah, there is the possibility off having too many races in one area of the game world, but that can stem from the gm not playing up the 'rarity' of those races which are small in number. If the party has, say, a catfolk character in it, and there are few, if any, other catfolk in the area, and he doesn't put some focus on that (having passers-by stop and gawk, little kids point and say 'kitty', merchants try to treat the character according to a well-known stereotype, etc.) even if there is no Social Complication (even in the most cosmopolitan city you will encounter this occasionally) then the race looses it's 'flavor'. That being said, there is also the flip-side: having every new npc encountered being some new, exotic race. Eventually it becomes old-hat, and players no longer focus on any character's race. It boils down to the individual gaming group, imo, and what their personal tastes in the matter are. But the big question to ask when looking at including the race is what niche does it fill, and just how similar are it's abilities to the existing races. Are you including it simply to have another race, or do you think it has a hook that could appeal to at least one player? Keep in mind that most FRPG settings tend to have individual regions set asi cde for each race (however remote they may be) and you either get a landscape of mutlnational confusion, running the risk of not having any truly 'wild' areas, or some races need to be from far-away lands, decreasing their number, and leading back to the start of this post.

Re: Fantasy Hero Companion: Heavy Fighters

Re: Fantasy Hero Companion: Heavy Fighters To be honest, looking at the template, and the options, I'd say it's way too constricting. Yeah, I can understand that It may be written with new comers to HERO in mind, but it's too cookie-cutter. As said above, part of the appeal of HERO is the idea of being able to make a unique customized character no matter what genre or type of game being run. Personally, I would suggest, slimming it down to just the base "standards" - those that would apply to every fighter of the type, then sit down with the players one-on-one (or even back and forth through email/texts/etc.) and discuss what the concept they have for their character is, and show them how they can do it using the system. Writing up detailed templates like this run the risk of making the player think it's typical, and falling into the "class" template that many other systems use. Having said that, I can see taking the time to write-up "standard power" that members of various classes may have, as a time-saver or simply examples of how to build abilities, but not including them as parts of a template, unless all characters of that type would have the *same* ability, with the same mechanics behind it.

Re: Fantasy Hero Companion: Heavy Fighters Any chance you could post the write-up/Template on here for those of us who don't have HERO Designer?

Re: Cannot be resurrected Yeah, the whole elves cannot be resurrected thing was killed many editions ago, and was simply to add flavor to the race, and taken from the alfar of Norse mythology (same place Tolkien got his elves, more or less) who had no soul or spirit to speak of, since the Nordic religion didn't make a differentiation of the soul/spirit and body. . . there was no dualistic nature. The concept of the soul leaving the body behind came about later through Christian missionaries. The elves were considered to be supernatural creatures (created from maggots Odin found crawling on the corpse of Ymir after he created Midgaard from it) and given sentience and form, but not created by the gods like mankind . . .

Re: Grimoire: Elemental Earth spell - Create Tower The 6E write-up says "Summon one tower built on up to 300 Total Points . . ." and without the Advantages, you're paying 60 Active Points, giving you the 300 Active Points to play with, which is technically the same cost as purchasing Base straight up . . . so, no, you don't get the 5-for-1 exchange a second time. That would be too much.

Re: Grimoire: Elemental Earth spell - Create Tower Yeah, from what I've read, the spell summons a tower built with the Base rules. You might want to check out the Ultimate Base, it has expanded rules, and helpful tips on creating a Fantasy HERO base (among those of other Genres). Another Possibility would be to build a smaller version with a combination of Barrier/Life Support, I suppose, but without taking a good look at it, and knowing just what functionality/use the tower would have, it's kind of hard to see which would be a cheaper build . . . Also, remember that first and foremost, the spells in the Grimoire are meant to be guidelines and time savers, not the "official" word on how to do something, so the player could very easily reduce the amount of points used to build the base, or use the Barrier/Life Support idea, if they didn't need something as big as what the spell, as written, suggests. Also, you might want to take a look at Fantasy Hero Battle Grounds, or Castles and Sieges (if you don't have The Ultimate Base, it's just the Fantasy HERO exerpt, and fairly cheap on the online store).

Re: Has anyone tried doing an Hyborian/Conan game using Fantasy Hero I'm actually working on some package deals/templates right now, should have them finished in a week or so, depending.

Re: World building resources I think it's a necessity, to be honest, and doesn't just add to the flavor, but helps with the immersion into the setting. The more the world seems believable, the more the players can place themselves in it. And this goes for not following real-world guidelines as well, since knowing what isn't typical, and coming up with a reason for why it exists works just as well as simply following the "standards."

Re: World building resources