DreadDomain

That's a shame. I loved GAC.

In my opinion, if the goal is to attract players to try a super-hero game, you want to stick with fairly traditional, modern, superhero art. If you verge into the anime or furries, that will send the wrong signal of what this is about or worse, it will turn people off.

Good, relevant art is never padding!

Absolutely agree. By the way, Extinction Event is such a product. I have not played it but it's the type of product that I would prefer to have from HERO. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/285180/Extinction-Event?term=extinct Above, @Steve Long describes exactly the Danger International I do not want. Another genre/sub-genre book describing stuff from cavemen to modern. Not what I want. I want Danger International to be a game with a define context and setting, with a clear purpose where readers learn what the game is all about. Is the game about Bondesque/Bournesque spies or is it grtty and down to earth? Is it set during the Pre-War, the Cold War, the War on Terror, the Near Future? What are the stakes? Now, once DI establishes a base context/setting/purpose, I could totally see expansions covering the other eras and style.

I am willing to give it a go. How many words are we talking about so far?

What is going on? Is there a code we are supposed to crack?

Thank you for this update! It's quite refreshing. I am happy to see releases down the line. Reading the below, am I correct to say that all physical releases will be POD only? Looking forward to it. How "complete" is it? Is it a sourcebook or is it a book with everything you need to play? Does it have a "build it yourself" mentality or does it uses the HERO System to create an Old West gaming experience? Who is "AC"? How many pages are 50,000 words? 100ish? The first one is excellent indeed. However, If I may offer my opinion on it, while the content is excellent, the production value is very amateurish. I assume all future physical products will be softcover, blsck and white PODs but hopefully, we can expect much better than what we have seen with the HSBoTI. I applaud the approach and I will support it. However, I doubt it will be sustainable beyond 1 or 2 books. Just based on Champions International, at $7.50 for a PDF of 16 pages, it will get very expensive for fans to support the sections and get the book. Say you want to combine 8 of them to get a 128 pages supplement, we will have to spend $60 to get the sections (because if not enough people buy the sections, the line will surely be dropped) and then will have to buy the combined book again. Anyway, let's give it a try. I will support both International and Martial Enemies because it is my only way to support HERO these days. I am really not too enthused about the concept of Patreon but let's see what you come up with. Totally up for it. Danger International or Justice Inc please. I am for games that use the HERO System as an engine not another rehash of the engine. Fantasy HERO Complete is a good example of what I do not want. It takes no stance at all about what the game is about but is simply another "build it yourself" book. A game like Justice Inc should not have a how to build powers section. It should have a Pulp Talents section and a Psionic Powers section and perhaps a Eldritch Grimoire section. All pre-built with a cost (or cost per levels) and no +¼, -¾. Sure the power of HERO is in the creation system but for that you want them to buy HERO, Basic or one of the Complete. How many more do we need? I don't believe you should waste too much effort on this. Thanks to all the creators!

I will follow this, I am very interested to see it. Starter sets are in vogue and Champions would really benefit from one if done right and if broadly communicated.

From page 202 and onwards: Racial Animal-Folk (Cat, Lion, Cheetah, Deer, Dog) Centaur Dwarf (Dwarf, Gnome) Elf (High, Wood) Faerie Giant (Fire, Frost, Storm, Ogre, Troll) Goblin (Goblin, Hobgoblin, Orc, Greater Orc, Lesser Orc) Halfling Reptile-Folk (Dragon, Lizard, Serpent) Winged-Folk Ancestral/Environmental Aquatic Divine/Infernal Elemental (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) Lycanthrope (Wolf, Bear, Boar, Shark, Tiger Size/Weight (Larger, Smaller, Heavier) Vampire Cultural Barbarian City-Dweller Horse Nomad Merchant/Trader Seafarer Warrior Professional Bard Knight Mage (Mage, Alchemist, Witch) Martial Artist Merchant Noble Paladin Priest (Priest, Druid, Monk, Shaman) Rogue (Rogue, Assassin, Bandit, Con-Man) Warrior (Warrior, Archer, Heavy, Light, Ranger) I hope it helps!

True. Hero Games is not super active though. At least not in a very visible way beyond announcing on the front page what the community program develops. Ah, did not know that! Glad to hear! I believe you are behind both projects (possibly the driving force behind them) so kudos to you. Will HERO republish/reformat the Island of the Destroyer you just made available?

I don't come here often anymore if only because the level of activities seems to have shrunk quite a bit on the board to only a small group of die hards (hats off to you guys). Your comment made me look at Drivethru to see what HERO has made available over there over the years and it is quite frankly supporting your position. While there were hundreds of older edition supplements and magazines made available in the last few years (thanks Jason!) and a smattering of fan/independent produced offerings (thanks for the hard work everyone, and yes I include the Champions Now experiment in that bucket), the last true HERO publication (at least offered on Drivethru) seems to be Fantasy Complete in March 2015. Two. Thousand. Fifteen. Wow, time flies. Did not realised it had been that long. It happened before! Not everyone likes 5E, 5R, 6E or what Steve Long has done with HERO (I do) but there is no denying that DOJ ushered a revival undreamed of at the time. I am grateful for it. Amen!

Thanks for the nod! I would love to set my sheet as an export format but alas, I do not have the skills to do so. Which I would include if I knew how to create export formats Fortunately, you have other, better options!

No worries mate. Still, you make a good point. PHB has a higher number of creatures in the book but they are mainly animals (and skeletons and zombies). FHC has a smaller selection but they are more interesting, more fantastical. There are also 6 examples characters that can be used as antagonists. I supposed they could also be used as pregens as well but they are not really balanced against one another. Because "pick a pregen" makes jumping into the game much quicker. I went back through character creation of FHC again and tried to have the mindset of someone who buys a game and wants to play a fantasy character (as opposed to "I've been playing HERO for 30 years) and man, it's bad. Character creation starts at page 17, racial, cultural and profession templates are an afterthought at page 202. During character creation you plough through the powers system (p.51) with little guidance on how to use it within the context of what it means in fantasy but then you have typical advantages and limitations packages for various types of magic at page 212 and then sample spells at page 241. Everytime I look at this book, I like it a bit less (which sadden me really). I cannot access Fantasy HERO 1E at the moment but if my recollection serves, it was a better book for fantasy (and I am a 6E supporter).

At this stage, I believe we have an orthogonal conversion as we do not seem to be debating the same things. I even had to go back and reread what prompted this exchange . You seem to have understood that my position was that the PHB was playable out of the box and FHC was not. This is not quite what I said (or at least meant) and my statement was that "...it makes FHC less play-ready than say, The Dark Eye, RuneQuest or Dungeons & Dragons even considering only their core/players books". My statement is not about which game is playable out of the box nor is it about which game is complete, it is about how quickly you can play a game after you bought the book. Bill, Bob and Boris walk into a game store. They want to try a new fantasy roleplaying. Bill, will be the GM, Bob, wants to play a magician and Boris will be a burly fighter. The plan is to read and understand the rules and while Bob and Boris are creating their characters (they want to create their own), Bill will put a few critters and enemies together (he might create them of pick from a list if available) in a generic dungeon/prison/castle/maze/whatever and they will let their imagination flow. There are only 4 books in the game store and they are all games they have never heard of; PHB 5E, FHC, TDE and RQG. Which book will enable them to do it the quickest? Which option would be the slowest? As explained above, my position is that FHC would be the slowest to lift and could also be the most difficult for Bob to get into. That's all I am saying. No problem if you disagree (I believe you do) as you seem to imply that you cannot play a game with just the PHB. I'd like to understand what you believe is missing in the PHB tat would prevent Bill, Bob and Boris to whip a quick game?

Am I? Maybe I am since I am comparing the "Complete" FH game with only a "Players Handbook". If you buy one of these two books to create characters right away, drop the party in a generic dungeons or locale populated by a few critters, you can do it more easily and rapidly with the PHB than with FHC. Chances are with FHC your evening will be spent creating characters, even worse if a player wants to create a spell caster. Assuming the same level of familiarity with the systems, I would also say that the jump is easier and quicker with only the core book of RuneQuest or The Dark Eye (or Dungeon Fantasy but the basic game is a full boxset so it might be a bit unfair). In FHC, character creation is looser, there are more decisions to be made and it is less pick and play than the others (mind you RQG and TDE have quite a few steps in character creation but it's much more directed). Bottom line, it will take more time and effort. For the other games, you can easily select a priest/spell-user and choose from a selection of spells. Your options to do so in FHC is very limited with only a few spells given as a example, or unlimited with the ability to build anything. Bottom line, you will be limited or it will take more time and effort. It may come down with what we believe we need to buy a book, read it and jump straight in. It may also depends how much prep time you expect to put it before you play. Personally, I believe the PHB has everything you need to play from day one. And there I believe the DMG is not needed to jump right in. Will you need it down the road? Maybe. Will you need it on day one? No. The same could be said for the Monster Manual. You want to play right away? You have 30 odd critters to play with. Sure, you will want more later. At first I thought you where conveniently moving the goalpost but actually I believe we are now confusing how quickly you can play after you bought a book, with how complete a game is. When I compare their playability out of the box, I talk about the former. It implies an ability to use the book quickly and enough material provided. FHC is not as quick to jump in (character creation) and not as complete (not enough spells). You mention "a lot of ways" but do not give any example of the many ways FHC is better suited than PHB when it comes to jumping into the game quickly. Would you mind giving a few?

To be fair FHC is not the equivalent of the Starter Kit (even if they are in the same price bracket) but of the Players Handbook (which is more than twice the price but with a much better production value). The PH has more monsters than FHC (30ish vs 12ish) and way more spells (over a 100 vs 14ish). I am not in the business of selling or defending D&D but reading both books makes it painfully clear it's a lot easier to jump in D&D.

I actually never though of it that way: how playable is it out of the box and what does it need to be playable out of the box? What you list here seems to be the crux of it but I would add that "playable out of the box" games have a somewhat implied play style. FHC is quite loose in that regard (may be a bug, may be a feature). Coupled with a very small selection of spells, it makes FHC less play-ready than say, The Dark Eye, RuneQuest or Dungeons & Dragons even considering only their core/players books.

Ah, I see. Fantasy specific elements then. Thanks, seems obvious in retrospect

It does? Never realised if. What does it have CC doesn't?

Other. A super-villain team that develops a rivalry with the group.

The current product is Champions Complete and if you loved Champions 4E and 5E, this is your best option when it comes to current edition. Of course, you could still play 4E or 5E and I suspect you could find players for them. Champions Complete is more or less the repackaging of HERO 6E (the 2 big blue books) in a format that is not unlike Champions 4E. It's more easily digestible than the 2 tomes (even if I personally like them). Champions Now is an oddity. It's the vanity project of Ron Edwards who started from Champions 3E and modified it with his own design preferences

Yes, Champions 4E was great! I never used the software mentioned in that thread but apparently, there were 2!

Yea, the sideburns in that pictures are terrible There is also a picture of Vanguard corpse being raised in the Champions Universe book I have the feeling that Canada is a bit underdone in the CU as it seems like their best heroes are either dead or unstable. I remember the Red Ensign costume as a mountie but I am sure their was also a more modern costume. Any idea where that could be? Actually, looking at Captain Australia, he feels heavily inspired by Superman. The origins are totally different but the powers and even identity (a journalist named Kent!) cannot be mistaken. I totally need to reread them. It feels like you make me rediscover the CU. I remembered Brimstone more like John Constantine. Or am I confused with the Drifter? Sure... but Defender is totally Iron Man! Yes, my thoughts exactly. Good points. Kinetik is not necessarily Flash. What about Streak and the Fabolous Five, where can we find him?

Yes, sorry about that, I wanted to challenge you on some classics that do not seem to have direct contemporary analogues. That is why I did not ask about Iron Man, Green Lantern or Flash (too obvious). And yes, Grond is Hulk. I forgot about Hornet, I will go have a look. I believe there are pictures of both Vanguard and him in CU, correct? I also agree Batman has not been directly ripped off. You prompted me to go back and read Black Mask X. And good one regarding Queen Mara. I did not think about her. I was expecting you would mention rhe Red Ensign but I did not remember about the Canada staff or the Mighty Canadians. More stuff to read! I'd be curious to hear about your Ghost Rider/Son of Satan analogues. For Australia, there was a write up for... was it Captain Australia... in one of the almanach in 4e but I don't believe he/she were ever official. Thanks for playing!!

Thank you for this LL, it's great. And I hear you, the Champions Universe is allegedly the richest outside of DC and Marvel. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the closest analogues for the following characters. Special rules: the characters need to still be alive in current Champions continuity! Superman Batman (is Nighthawk really the closest analogue?) Wonder Woman Captain America Spider-Man (even if the motif isn't spiders) Hulk (it has to be a hero that changes to a human form! No Grond allowed.) Captain Canuck Spawn Bonus questions: The greatest Russian hero The greatest Canadian hero (no guns allowed, it's not Canadian enough 😄) The greatest Australian hero (I don't believe Seeker is in present continuity - I preferred C:TNM Seeker anyway...)