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DreadDomain

HERO Member
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  1. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from GM_Champion in Year in review   
    Extinction Event is also pretty cool.
  2. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Amorkca in Year in review   
    Extinction Event is also pretty cool.
  3. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Tasha in Champions Now Information   
    Personally I still struggle to understand why it makes good business sense to build Champions Now on 3E. Isn't 6E supposed to be the Ultimate Toolkit to build a game, your game, with the feel you want, with that "thing" you want? Wouldn't Champions Now have been a great opportunity to demonstrate just that?
    I am speaking a bit in a vacuum here since I haven't seen the Beta document. Any idea where I can access it?
  4. Thanks
    DreadDomain reacted to Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    I am terrible when posting from a phone: the interface is tedious, the spell-check speaks a language that I don't (Not kidding:  you have no idea how many of my words get changed into Korean names or Indian words.  Yes; I have it set for English.  It does it anyway.  It's maddening!), and for some reason, it loves reading the "n" as a space......
     
    So I tend to be more terse when posting from a phone.  I had thought it was more clear:
     
    The only reason I even knew the game existed was because I stumbled back into the boards after a few years of absence, I stumbled across a thread on the badmouthing of Curea (apparently he likes guns.  Gee.  Who'da thought that?  : ), and evidently someone got a couple of unfavorable soundbites from him about something political-- don't remember; don't care: I tend to believe that most people take politics too far, considering no one gets out of here alive-- and mentioned the timing of the problem; the affect it had on sales of the game, etc---
     
    That's the _only_ reason I even knew it existed.  No adds anywhere in paper; no adds online that I ever encountered; not even an e-mail, and mine is registered with the board.  Absolutely nothing but someone discussing how internet politics (which I really do believe are a radically different beast than actual politics: in the real world, discussion and compromise _can_ be found) was affecting the sale of the MHI game Hero had just tried selling at a Con.  (And I live something like "several states away" from a Con, so that's not going to reach me, either.....
     
     
     
     
  5. Thanks
    DreadDomain reacted to Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    For all of us, in one way or another.  I certainly wasn't trying to disparage the exercise.  I enjoy it myself.  
  6. Thanks
    DreadDomain reacted to Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    No conspiracy theory.
     
    I ordered myself a book.  They showed 660 in stock when I ordered mine.  A couple days later, I mentioned that it existed to my brother John, who actually likes the book series they're based on.  ( I like  a lot of Curea's stuff, but decidedly not MHI).  John was rather excited about reading it, so I loaned him mine.  Three?  Four?-- days later I thought "I'll buy him one.  He'll appreciate it, and I'm throwing money at Hero Games!"  Win / win.
     
    Gone.  All 660.   Keep in mind this was a couple of _years_ after they had been published.  (since HERO isn't in game stores, I didn't even know it existed until I came back to the boards.) If it matters, these were perfect bound; I know hardbacks tend to go quickly.  Not a conspiracy theory: a coincidence, and concerns about a fire or losing the ability to pay the mortgage on a warehouse.
     
     
     
     
  7. Haha
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Spence in What happened to HERO?   
    I'll go back in my corner then 😉
  8. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from GM Joe in What happened to HERO?   
    Absolutely! Rulewise O much much prefer 4, 5, 5r and 6 to anything that came before it...
     
    ..but the toolkit approach does not have to exclude the complete game approach. Once you have given me the toolkit (you could never take 6E1 and 6E2 away from me), be bold. Use the toolkit and give me games.
    Give me a Fantasy Hero where the secondary characteristics are figured
    Reattach CVs. Drop characteristics you dont need. Change the way skills are calculated from characteristics. Change the skill list and give me new talents. Don't give me a power system, give me equipment, vehicles and magic! Stop writing everything as +1/2 and -3/4. Give me the writer's vision!
    You know what? If I dont like something I will use the toolkit and change it.
  9. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Chris Goodwin in What happened to HERO?   
    Absolutely! Rulewise O much much prefer 4, 5, 5r and 6 to anything that came before it...
     
    ..but the toolkit approach does not have to exclude the complete game approach. Once you have given me the toolkit (you could never take 6E1 and 6E2 away from me), be bold. Use the toolkit and give me games.
    Give me a Fantasy Hero where the secondary characteristics are figured
    Reattach CVs. Drop characteristics you dont need. Change the way skills are calculated from characteristics. Change the skill list and give me new talents. Don't give me a power system, give me equipment, vehicles and magic! Stop writing everything as +1/2 and -3/4. Give me the writer's vision!
    You know what? If I dont like something I will use the toolkit and change it.
  10. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    Absolutely! Rulewise O much much prefer 4, 5, 5r and 6 to anything that came before it...
     
    ..but the toolkit approach does not have to exclude the complete game approach. Once you have given me the toolkit (you could never take 6E1 and 6E2 away from me), be bold. Use the toolkit and give me games.
    Give me a Fantasy Hero where the secondary characteristics are figured
    Reattach CVs. Drop characteristics you dont need. Change the way skills are calculated from characteristics. Change the skill list and give me new talents. Don't give me a power system, give me equipment, vehicles and magic! Stop writing everything as +1/2 and -3/4. Give me the writer's vision!
    You know what? If I dont like something I will use the toolkit and change it.
  11. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    It was lost to us because HERO Games mostly decided to not showcase it. The greatest HERO paradox is that from 5e onwards they were establishing the system as the ultimate toolkit but mostly refused to use it themselves. We had lots of (good) books filled with suggestions (genre book) but very few games (à la Danger International and Justice Inc). Lucha Libre and MHI were the closest to it.
    The most notable failure in ths department of "let's use the toolkit to create a game" was Fantasy Hero Complete. In the end it was merely a rehash of the toolkit in a thin fantasy trappings.
  12. Like
    DreadDomain reacted to Chris Goodwin in What happened to HERO?   
    I've been playing Champions in 6th and it's been growing on me.  If I had to pick a second favorite, it would probably be 6th.  
  13. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Chris Goodwin in What happened to HERO?   
    I know your favorite edition is Champions 3e while mine is 6e but I read your post and pretty much agree with all of it. Having 6e as my preferred does not mean I agree with everything that was done (I dont).
  14. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Vanguard in What happened to HERO?   
    Not sure what you mean by "early editions" but back in the days, our group startec with 4e. Out of 7 players I can confidently say that 4 of us got in in the first session and perhaps even up to 6. Playing HERO, any edition, is not hard but there certainly many moving parts.
  15. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Sketchpad in What happened to HERO?   
    These two comments plus the lack of complete pre-packaged games (DI, JI, etc...) for later editions sum where I think HERO went wrong.
    My favorite edition is 6e but some of the deconstructivism for the sake of point balance or for the sake of bundling similar powers together went to far. Adding complexity (sometimes only apparent complexity) for little gain. Also the anally retentive way to make character builds more complete/accurate/complex and write everything (in long form) and the wall of characteristics just make the character difficult to read.
    Again, I like 6e and I appreciate the completeness of the Basic Set but at the very least it should have been coupled with Danger International, Justice Inc and Fantasy Hero as complete games using the toolkit, not showing the toolkit.
  16. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from GM Joe in What happened to HERO?   
    These two comments plus the lack of complete pre-packaged games (DI, JI, etc...) for later editions sum where I think HERO went wrong.
    My favorite edition is 6e but some of the deconstructivism for the sake of point balance or for the sake of bundling similar powers together went to far. Adding complexity (sometimes only apparent complexity) for little gain. Also the anally retentive way to make character builds more complete/accurate/complex and write everything (in long form) and the wall of characteristics just make the character difficult to read.
    Again, I like 6e and I appreciate the completeness of the Basic Set but at the very least it should have been coupled with Danger International, Justice Inc and Fantasy Hero as complete games using the toolkit, not showing the toolkit.
  17. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Duke Bushido in What happened to HERO?   
    Not sure what you mean by "early editions" but back in the days, our group startec with 4e. Out of 7 players I can confidently say that 4 of us got in in the first session and perhaps even up to 6. Playing HERO, any edition, is not hard but there certainly many moving parts.
  18. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Tywyll in Third Edition Renaissance   
    You are correct. I am not saying the 6E way is wrong. I just prefer the aesthetic of the previous build.
     
    I prefer:
    Transfer: Transfer END 4d6 (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 60 CP 
     
    over
    Transfer: Drain END 4d6 (40 Active Points); Unified
    Power (-.) (total cost: 32 CP) plus Aid END 4d6 (standard effect:
    same roll as Drain dice), Trigger (when character uses Drain,
    activating Trigger takes no time, Trigger immediately automatically
    resets; +1) (48 Active Points); Only Aid Self (-1), Linked (-.),
    Unified Power (-.). Real Cost: 51 CP
     
    and
    Instant Change: Switch one set of clothes for another. Real Cost: 3 CP
     
    over
    Instant Change: Cosmetic Transform 1d6 (standard
    effect: switch one set of clothes for another), Trigger (changing
    clothing is a Zero Phase Action, Trigger automatically resets;
    +.) (5 Active Points); Limited Target (the character’s current
    clothing; -.). Real Cost: 3 CP
     
     
  19. Haha
    DreadDomain got a reaction from GM Joe in What happened to HERO?   
    Thanks for the detailed response Duke. You finally convinced me that the 4th edition is much better than any of the previous editions!
  20. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Chris Goodwin in What happened to HERO?   
    Thanks for the detailed response Duke. You finally convinced me that the 4th edition is much better than any of the previous editions!
  21. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from GM Joe in Third Edition Renaissance   
    I would also suggest that the "complexity" of later editions is provided for gamers to use... or ignore. While we often hear about HERO's complexity, the fact is that characters can be built in a very convoluted way or in a very simple fashion and most of the time the system, though character points, will self balance. It is no more difficult to build a very simple character in HERO 6E than it is in earlier editions but later editions also provide for complex solutions. The power to make these design decisions rests with the players themselves and they choose the level of complexity their character will have.
     
    In any case these are cool characters Pariah. Keep them coming!
  22. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Amorkca in Extinction Event Kickstarter FEB 18th 2018   
    Extinction Event PDF has been delivered to backers!
  23. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Andrew_A in HS 6e is mechanically the best version of the rules; dissenting views welcome   
    Straight off the bat, I believe 6E is the best edition of HERO mechanically. I would not say it is the best it could be, but it is better than the previous editions. Most of the problems I have with 6E are not mechanical but rather with presentation.
    Presentation
    Again, I will declare it from the start, I love the two big-blue 6E books. I find them beautiful and neat and as reference manuals, they are golden. When it comes to look at general rules though, Champions Complete or HERO Basic are much more convenient.  Behold hindsight 20/20, with better production value (and completeness for Basic) they could have been the equivalent of HERO Rulebook and Champions BBB for 4E. I would have seen them both on glossy paper, full color and using the layout template 6E1 and 6E2 use while the two big books could have been softcover and black and white (what they now are in POD I suppose).   
    But my main presentation problems in 6E are on the character sheets. The wall of characteristics is horrible and with just a better layout could be easily avoided. Categorizing them like it was previously suggested in this thread would go a long way to make them look less intimidating. At the very least, grouping them slightly differently (example below but somewhat messed up) would definitely help.
    CHARACTERISTICS
    STR           40       17-         STR Dice 9d6, Lift 6.4tons
    DEX          36      16-
    CON          19       13-
    INT            18       13-         Perception Roll 13-
    EGO          15       12-
    PRE           13       12-         PRE Attack 2½d6
     
    OCV           10             OMCV      3
    DCV           12              DMCV      3
    SPD              5              Phases     3, 5, 8, 10, 12
     
    PD              12              Total         12 PD/0 rPD
    ED               9               Total         9 ED/0 rED
    REC           10               END         40
    STUN         40               BODY       12     
     
    MOVEMENT
    Running 12m (24m)         Swimming 4m (8m)
    Leaping 30m (60m)         Swinging 40m (80m)
     
    Another issue brought up previously is how some powers were deconstructed and need now to be built from other powers. While I have no problem with the approach, I would have preferred if they would have defined and used a simplified nomenclature on published character sheets (basically what they did with Talents). A few basic write-ups would have benefited from it (Force Field, Instant Change, Transfer, Super-Running (you know, the one not built with Running but with Flight or Teleport), etc…). In short, I would have liked if they looked for a way to declutter the character sheets and make them look more appealing, more fun (and yes, I would be totally happy not seeing Real Cost per line item and the advantages and limitations +/- values).
    Legacy
    Another aspect that clearly irks long time HERO fans is the loss of some legacy components. The two examples constantly referred to are Comeliness and Figured Characteristics. In both cases, I was initially against their departure but after the fact, my opinion is that the game is better without them.
    Comeliness was not doing much mechanically and every attempt I have seen to give it a purpose were heroic efforts for sure but ultimately unconvincing. I much, much prefer Striking Appearance as a mechanic. That being said, I agree that adding Comeliness in a sidebar as a potential new Characteristic would have been a must. It is clearly important to some of us and we should respect that.
    Figured Characteristics were a tougher nut to crack. The challenge is to balance a linear point cost progression per characteristics with what is fundamentally a breakpoint progression of abilities. Some benefits of characteristics increase every +1 but others only in +2, +3 or +5 increments. GURPS can balance its Attributes with its Secondary Characteristics by the simple fact that most benefits progress on a +1 for +1 basis. ST is equally divided in three components, Lifting, Striking and Hit Points, +1 in ST means +1 in all three components and the sum cost of the three components equals the total cost for ST. Trying to balance that in HERO was next to impossible and at best could have been better approximated than in previous editions (this is what I was hoping for while 6E was being developed). In the end, figured characteristics were not figured anymore and it suddenly became much easier to build any concept desired without worrying with point efficiency.
    But something was lost. Call it guidance or verisimilitude but the fact remains that a deeply entrenched paradigm, the relation between Characteristics and Figured was erased. Again, a few solutions were possible. First, a sidebar re-introducing Figured Characteristics with better balanced costs could have been added. Second, and even easier, a sidebar could have introduced “suggested values” for Secondary Characteristics based on Characteristics (example below).
      Base Cost Suggested Value OCV 3 5 DEX/3 DCV 3 5 DEX/3 OMCV 3 3 EGO/3 DMCV 3 3 EGO/3 PD 2 1 STR/5 ED 2 1 CON/5 SPD 2 10 1+DEX/10 REC 4 1 (STR+CON)/5 END 20 0.2 CONx2 BODY 10 1 10+STR/5 STUN 20 0.5 BODY+STR+CON)/2
     
    From a cost perspective, nothing would change. You would still buy STR at 1 pts for +1 and no Secondary Characteristics would be automatically recalculated. If you wanted to bring your Secondary Characteristics in line with the suggested values, you would still need to buy them up. Suggested Values would simply give an indication of how the Characteristics could influence the Secondary Characteristics and the player would still have full power to buy them up their desired values based on their concept, may it be the suggested value or something else. Unless of course a campaign strictly enforces them.
    I haven’t touched on mechanics at all in this post. Hopefully will have time to do so later.
     
  24. Like
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Matt the Bruins in DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...   
    Ditto here. Affleck had to work with was he was given (including gunning down people) but he did a good job and personally thought he was the better choice for the chatacter physically. I never cared about Bat-Keaton and while I liked Bat-Bale, he never had the jaw for the role.
    In the end Batfleck is closer to the source material.
  25. Thanks
    DreadDomain got a reaction from Maccabe in Third Edition Renaissance   
    You are correct. I am not saying the 6E way is wrong. I just prefer the aesthetic of the previous build.
     
    I prefer:
    Transfer: Transfer END 4d6 (60 Active Points) Real Cost: 60 CP 
     
    over
    Transfer: Drain END 4d6 (40 Active Points); Unified
    Power (-.) (total cost: 32 CP) plus Aid END 4d6 (standard effect:
    same roll as Drain dice), Trigger (when character uses Drain,
    activating Trigger takes no time, Trigger immediately automatically
    resets; +1) (48 Active Points); Only Aid Self (-1), Linked (-.),
    Unified Power (-.). Real Cost: 51 CP
     
    and
    Instant Change: Switch one set of clothes for another. Real Cost: 3 CP
     
    over
    Instant Change: Cosmetic Transform 1d6 (standard
    effect: switch one set of clothes for another), Trigger (changing
    clothing is a Zero Phase Action, Trigger automatically resets;
    +.) (5 Active Points); Limited Target (the character’s current
    clothing; -.). Real Cost: 3 CP
     
     
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