JmOz
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Posts posted by JmOz
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I know...I so feel he is overrated...
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2 minutes ago, massey said:
It can't be untold havoc if we, the readers, were told about it.
Liefeld art at his best...
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You know that a couple wheel chair bound "heroes" did this as well...
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Sounds RAW to me...
- Khas and drunkonduty
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We know the guy, keeps files on all his villains, and his friends, and the guy he saw on the street last Tuesday. Has plans to take each one down, etc...Joins/founds a team of heroes so they have someone who can take them down (because one hero is not enough)...
Trying to figure out what would be in the files,
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I have just finished the last character sheet.
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Made a mistake. One of the last minute changes was that he gained the CON power (reducing his natural con). Will fix that in a bit
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This is us
- Duke Bushido and HeroGM
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There is a BIG difference, especially with instant powers.
LION heart, has a VPP. He can reconfigure his Nanite armor to change to what he needs. While fighter The Winter, he changes his energy blasters to a entangle. He rolls ONCE without RSR on the VPP now he can entangle away. WITH RSR he needs to roll every time he uses the power.
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4 minutes ago, Sicarius said:
I must say you members are so far a very helpful and civil group. Usually some troll would have manifested by now and poisoned the thread. Perhaps the dedication necessary to comprehend and utilize Hero effectivly appeals to a different breed of cat. Or perhaps I have just been lucky so far but between this and my other inquiries you people have been top notch.
Go ahead....pat yourselves on the back for me.
Just to make you feel better
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Issue 3 of the title IIRC, early 60's.
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2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:
Three things:
First, I am a _terrible_ person to ask about Multiform. I understand how it works, and how to use it, but at the end of the day, I personally don't believe it ever really needed to exist. I have theories (some _way_ less crazy than others) about how a lot of newer things came to be over the years, but absolutely none of that is important. Suffice it to say that the "only in identity X" thing has been around since the beginning, and given the massive price discounting, etc, of Multiform compared to that, I just don't think it's a thing that even _needed_ to be. It exists; feel free to use it if that's what you feel the best choice is.
Second: No; you don't actually have to become an entirely different person to qualify for multiform. To use the Human Torch example that has been discussed here a bit:
It is conceivable that you can build a character with all kinds of flame powers-- that is, powers with Flame as a Special Effect, and use multiform. Even if you wanted him to have some of his flame powers (I'm going to keep saying "Flame Powers" because I can't say "firepowers" with a straight face. Sorry) while he was a normal human. You simple have the "normal human" portion pay for the powers he can use as a normal human: perhaps a Fire Blast or even Flight. You can still build the Multiform specifically to represent the engulfed-in-flames version of him, which would have either more powerful versions of these same powers, additional powers not available in the normal human version, or both. The sky's the limit. Given the 1/5 costing, the freakin' lunar orbit is the limit.
it's going to really be between you and the GM and how he sees it working. As you can see from this conversation, those of us who have been with this game a long, long time can't really agree on what is "appropriate" for Multiform. In those cases: go with the rules. Look for the absolute essence of the rules, not all the verbiage. the Multiform rules (ignoring the outrageous cost discounting) boil down to "one or more powers that are available in one or more form that are not available in one or more other forms." If you can lock yourself out of something and into something else, and if changing back locks you out of that something else again, then yes: you can build it with Multiform.
Like I said, go right to the basics of the rules. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're using 6e.
That being said:
That's it. You can change into one or more forms, each with it's own abilities, personality, and Characteristics.
Your Human Torch will have, if built with a Multiform, at lest one ability that locks in and out based on the form he is in. It could be a Characteristic; it could be a Power; it could be a Skill.
5e, if you were wondering, says exactly the same thing-- the first paragraph-- and little bit more-- were just lifted whole-cloth from 5e.
it is almost identical to the wording from 4e, save the change from 4e's "a character with this Special power can have several different forms, each with its own personality, Characteristics, and Powers.
Multiform didn't exist in 3e-- at least, not in the core rules.
Weirdly, it didn't come from 4e. It came from 2e (sort of). It was presented in the supplemental book Champions III, which barely beat Champions 3e to press. In 2e, the first sentence states "This power allows a character to have several different forms, each with it's own Characteristics, Powers, and Disadvantages."
The difference here?
Two editions later, the word "personality" was added.
is it important?
Depends on who you ask. Those that maintain "you have to have a different personality or you can't use Multiform" will certainly find it important. However, that means that Captain Marvel is _not_ using Multiform to switch from a child to the world's mightiest mortal: he has the same personality. That's why he was chose to be Captain Marvel (not in the movie. The kid in the movie is self-centered dink who _becomes_ a worthwhile person. ) I don't think it's terribly important because it says multi-_form_, and not "scizophrenia."
Well for those who believe that the change to drop the word Disadvantages and replace it with the word Personality means something, then does not dropping the word Disadvantages also mean something?
Moreover, the word "can" is still in there. So are we saying that "he _can_ have this," as in "he might want to do it this way," or, put another way: "He _can_, but he might not." That is, we are saying _can_ as opposed to _must_.
At the end of the day, the defining trait of Multiform is access to at least one thing that at least one other form locks you out of.
As far as "getting the logic" of OIHID versus Multiform? Stop trying. There is no logic to it at all-- the difference between "multiform" and "alternate ID." _Something_ makes that ID "alternate," after all. it might be abilities; it might be Characteristics; it might be Powers; it might be Personality; it might be Disadvantages. Why is that "alternate" not an additional hundred pounds of muscle and a hokey accent? Until Champions III was published, it _was_.
Now if you're just opinion shopping, here's mine:
Multiform exists because enough people didn't make an intuitive leap from Only in _hero_ identity to "only in _appropriate_ identity," as so were flummoxed as to just how they could create the Hulk. The Hulk is billed, more or less, as hero, but at the time Champs III was written, he was mostly running around the American Southwestern Desert beating up Army guys (and running over to New York once a month to do an Avengers thing before racing back to the desert before anyone caught on).
Any justification for why Multiform is more or less appropriate than OIAID that I have ever come across or even come up with on my own (yes; I used to try) sounds so forced as to be just a little bit embarrassing to pretend I accept that there is a difference. My final decision on that for my own games was that Multiform has no place in my games and is just a points grab to start out at higher levels of each "alternate ID" than are possible with the OIAID (which, if we would read as "only in _appropriate_ ID," we could STOP HAVING TWO NAMES FOR THE EXACT SAME THING! oh. Sorry about that. I didn't realize I wasn't just thinking that part....).
Honestly, we just had a remarkably good discussion on this vey subject-- Multiform, I mean-- not too terribly long ago. If I stumble across the thread, I will be happy to link you to it. There may be something there that will help you make up your mind.
For all other questions you might have of me, I respectfully refer you to the first answer in this response: I am a _terrible_ person to ask about Multiform.
Point of order, Hulk had stopped being an avenger decades before Champions first edition came out...I think at the time he was actually working as a bouncer in Vegas...
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Wow GRAMMER BAD
Rewritten for clarity
I recently had reason to look at my 6th edition character pack from 2010. I am noticing that a few files seem to be missing and wondering if this is a universal issue or something that has happened over time. I did go back to the original zip file I had and they are missing from that as well. I do realize that there has been a software update on the website that has erased any order from this far back. In truth I cannot remember if I bought it or was given a copy for doing data entry on it.
My main curiosity here is if this was a universal issue, or something that haas happened to my files. I am missing for instance all of the Giants....
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My cranky today...I have to get ready and go to work YUK!!!
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MANY MANY years ago, there was a HERO named Sam Bell. Never met the man, but he was a HUGE comic and Hero fan who did some insanely accurate write ups. They wound up on a website called the Netbook of Heroes
http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/
Here is his Human Torch II (Johnny Storm of the Fantastic Fore)
http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Human_Torch-sb.txt
- archer and Acroyear II
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3 hours ago, Sicarius said:
This makes good sense to me. I did not think of breaking them into two different frameworks.
Would you give them both the limitation OIHID? Seems to me the EC group would be OIHID but not the necessarily the multipower.
Does the Torch need Instant Change as one of his powers or is he considered always in hero form just not always actively using a power, such as flaming body.
Is his flaming body expressed a power or a SFX?
Sorry about all the questions but I think if i can get a handle on how to accurately express JS/Torch them I'll be a long way on understanding how to build with Hero.
RE Captain MArvel/Shazam. Yes the "adult" form is the Hero ID and basically a F/X of the powers
I would not build torch as an OIHID. the EC represents his flaming form, while his other powers can be used without FLAME ON. also important to note, most times he can control what part of his body is flaming (so he can hold someone's hand and not burn them for instance)
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Thinking I might just change the seed to being a single person transform into someone else with the transform power (ala Vampires)
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Okay. Captain Marvel is the poster child for OIHID. He CAN be built with Multiform, but OIDHID is the normal way to go about it. I do NOT agree that the change HAS to be mental for a multiform, lots of characters who can change into an animal will use multiform (say Changling/Beast boy for instance, though that is really a limited VPP)
Not the torch. I would say you are looking at (in 4th edition terms) an EC with Flight, Force Field, and Damage Shield, while having a MP of different "Tricks". Believe it or not 5th and 6th has actually made this simpler in some ways (thought long winded at times)
I CANNOT stress this enough, the main thing to do is KEEP IT SIMPLE. Many times you can get to the same destination in hero in multiple ways. Find the way that "feels" right to YOU...
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Easier, and normaly cheaper, to buy the skill up instead, I think 6th got rid of the idea of skill levels for removing penalties on non combat skills...kind of remember that as being part of 5th...
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tarp
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8 hours ago, Grailknight said:
Buy the Megascale at it's largest size and then limit it so it starts at the smallest increment and grows at your desired time intervals.
Probably will basically do that, but with a more complicated build, but this gives me the idea on how...
1d6AE transforms
Megascale / Extra time per turn
10 km per min, etc...
will need to play with the numbers...
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"He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else"
Human Torch
in Champions
Posted
This is one of the better pieces by a guy named Rob Leifield...He was popular about 20 years ago