rstehwien

I don't have any problem with Disadvantages/Complications per se. I thought in previous versions you ended up needing to buy too many and I found that the "complications already added in" method made things more complicated than Base+Disadvantages. Now its "Here is your total, but if you don't take all the complications you need to subtract ..." seems a backwards and convoluted path to the same point. But I really do like the lower number of points in complications; people aren't walking bags of neurosis with strange weaknesses and enemies. All that said, I really like the option on 6eV1 pg 415 where you just have a total number of points and when your complications come up you get new HAP (heroic action points). Makes it behave somewhat like FATE Aspects in that they are a temporary reward when it occurs, so players want it to come up, rather than a permanent award and they often don't want them to come up. Now only if some power limitations were treated like that (things like focus which are a situational modifier that the GM must make happen and some players whine about).

Eclipse Phase is an RPG with a good number of transhuman ideas. There are many mechanical an biological "morphs" as well as the option of being a virtual infomorph. No FTL ships (something like a stargate) but there are some extreme morphs like the Suryas (Space Whales) And Salamanders which are both Coronal Morphs; they live in the suns out most layer. Books are Creative Commons (or pay if you find them worth it). Ideas there for the mining. http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/

One reason I'd recommend adding the Champions 6e book is that CC left out the chapter titled "The Superhero Gallery" (character templates) starting on pg 243 from Champions 6e - the 40 pages of champions summarized in 6e left out much that I find useful (including the Character Ability Guidelines Table that tells people what is the expected norm for different numbers of points). I disagree with the Powers book not being useful. Sure I think the variations are often redundant but there are some useful "how do you build that in hero" information in there that just reading the rulebook doesn't cover (especially CC without all the examples and explanation). Even after playing Champions since the 80's I find myself occasionally forgetting "how do I build the Flash's ability to disarm bombs in a second" (buy skill levels with a -1 limit "only to reduce cost of moving down the time chart"). Things like that aren't always clear or often used. The premade templates, powers, equipment, etc make it easy to get people into the game since they can just make a few picks and be off and running; system mastery can come later. Main reason I was surprised that CC didn't include the templates is that my belief was a goal was to get people into the game.

I can search for "homunculi" just fine but if I search for something like "multiform" I get a server error - takes along time and may be related to the number of results from the search query (tried the search numerous times over the last couple of days). The website encountered an error while retrieving http://www.herogames.com/forums/search?q=multiform&searchJSON=%7B%22keywords%22%3A%22multiform%22%7D. It may be down for maintenance or configured incorrectly. Error code: 500

I might use the d6 stun multiplier you suggested, the 3d6 method gives more fine grain control over probability if you want it but d6 is likely fine for my purposes. I really like there being resistant and non-resistant defenses. Killing attacks are more than "do more body but less stun and knock-back than normal attacks", they are intrinsically more lethal because normal people don't have resistant defenses at all. So unless they are in body armor, a tough guy (10 PD, 12 Body) looking at at DC 13 attack (10d6/4d6+1k) normal attack thinks "going to hurt but I'll live" but the killing attack is "this could just kill me". Even a DC 6 (6d6/2d6k) attack is pretty scary. Put on some 6 DEF body armor and the 2d6 doesn't look quite so bad. I've been running/playing Mutants and Masterminds for a while and haven't liked that a normal unarmored person with a good Con/Stamina (depending on version) that provides a Toughness of 4 is equally worried about a Damage 4 Heavy Pistol as they are a Damage 4 punch (which is what someone with a similar "good" Strength would have). I'd like the pistol to be more scary without having to crank up its damage value like I can in Hero. I don't see it as having two different types of resistances for PD and ED. You have PD and ED and none, some, or all of it can be resistant to represent how effective it is vs killing. Different perspective. I also like the stun multiple going before the damage is applied (rather than to the body that gets through) because that bullet proof vest may stop the bullet but you will still feel like you were kicked in the chest. But as you said its a matter of preference and the numbers aren't all that different. For being bullet proof, there is Damage Negation. The power is new to me as I've been away from hero from a while. That is a completely different type of protection (like Damage Reduction) so I can understand not liking that for the added complexity. Someone could have PD/ED, part of it resistant, Damage Negation, and Damage Reduction making it very hard to gauge just how tough they truly are.

I appreciate efforts to reduce the stun lottery as I seemed to be its victim since 1e - my characters usually did well against other supers but out comes an agent with a machine gun and the x5 stun multiples popped up with obscene regularity. With the multiple of 1d6-1, the problem wasn't just that killing attacks did better stun it was the variance of the results. 6e improved things changing the multiple to 1/2d6 but it still comes down to fewer dice rolled makes for higher variance in results. Making killing attacks roll a similar number of dice gives it the same bell curve behavior that normal attacks have. In addition to the AVAD (which I may try) above I've also seen. What we found in earlier versions that helped was using the hit location chart and just reading the multiplier. Killing attacks still had higher potential for stun (which was annoying). Sadly 6e didn't change the hit location multipliers to match the same range when not using the hit location chart (still goes up to x5). But I've been wondering if rolling 3d6 for the multiplier might help keep the results more predictable. Some table like one of these: 3d6 STUNx 3-7 x1 8-13 x2 14-18 x3 * 16.2% chance of x1 or x3 Using 1/2d6 you have a 33% chance of any multiplier. I chose the above because it is close to half that for the two extremes. You can fiddle with the probability of x1 or x3 to fit how you think it should behave. Change to 3-6/15-18 and it is 9.26%, 3-5/16-18 is 4.63%, 3-4/17-18 is 1.85%, and 3/18 is .46%. Could weight it more toward x1 if desired. The able above allows you to use the rules as is but adjust multiplier probabilities I'm leery of allowing increases in stun multiple because I saw numerous people abuse it just to KO people in one shot.

I'm returning to Hero from a long time with Mutants and Masterminds (things about Hero I still like better and I was making changes to get closer to Hero and 3e moved further from what I liked). But I really like power stunts from M&M and never found them to be a problem even with people with variable powers in the mix (like a VPP). So I'm likely to be very generous and use some of the options from Advanced Player's Guide 1. I'll require spending some END (1/10 active points or something) to make the roll and if you succeed a the skill check you can: Create a new power with the same number of active points (could be same power with different modifiers) Add up to +1/2 worth of advantages or remove -1/2 worth of limitations Minor tricks won't require spending END. Reusing the same trick too often and I'll assign a penalty from -1 to -3 (or more) to the skill.

I picked it up and enjoyed "Blade of Fire", my favorite in the book (the red sonya like one being my second favorite - don't have book available so can't recall title).

Re: Alternative Necromancy Nethermancers in Earth Dawn deal with spirits and the dead but aren't inherently evil (many find them creepy). They are in some sense keepers of the past allowing contact with ancestors or great masters of various skills... in fact all of the diciplines (ED classes) can access a ghost master trainer and guess who invented that. I've also seen discussion about (but can't quite place the origin) fantasy cultures that summon the dead to defend their land because "obligation does not end at death". These cultures see nothing wrong with raising their beloved uncle to help fight the orkish hordes because uncle would approve (and says so when you talk to him over tea). For "day of the dead" celebrations you go hang out with the spirits and bring their favorite food and drink. Its a big old party and often lively and full of good humor regaling each other with the humorous antics of the family members who have past on. Just take the spirt of that celebration add in some warrior's code of honor and I can totally see necromancers having an honored position in society - not only in letting you talk to your favorite departed relatives but also helping them to continue to defend the living.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product This is also true and I expect it is getting more true as time passes. The RPG market is aging and many people don't have time to do their own custom games anymore (and even the younger new players don't either). So when you have a choice between something you can just pick up and play and something else where you are given a toolkit where you have to make everything yourself people often choose the easier path. Lately I've not had enough time to even convert adventures so I just go with the system that gives me adventures premade. That has been either Savage Worlds when I want something other than a fantasy experience or Pathfinder for the fantasy experience. Still inside many gamers is a tinkerer that wants to make their own stuff and often feels stifled by games like D&D where there isn't a core system to make their own stuff (you just wing it). Its what drew me to Fantasy Hero in the first place... but I had more time to tinker 25 years ago. I'd love to see a Dungeon Hero "adventure path" that just requires the core book and the adventure path. If I had time (and a bit more skill ), I'd make adventures myself.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product Chiming in late but figured I'd toss in my $.02. Bit rambling and without quotes to some things I'm responding to. My top 3 reasons for loving Hero: Modular Effect Based Power System - Build what you want rather than relying on someone to produce the supplement with the power you want. Any Genre - The rules are flexible and scalable enough you can run any setting. I've played fantasy, supers, steampunk, star wars, cross genre rules, etc. with hero. Only one core book needed to run anything. Everything else I buy is examples and suggestions on customizing to a genre. My preference is for "Dungeon Hero" (really like that title) is to have it be a complete setting and not genre book but not a rule book. If you want to capture the fantasy gamer (aka get some D&D / Pathfinder players to try Hero), give them something that is similar to what they are used to but showcases what Hero is capable of. Give them a setting, rules customizations, templates, sample spells, monsters, equipment, and an adventure/mini-campaign so they can hit the ground running. Basically I'm suggesting something similar to the extremely popular Savage Worlds setting (like Hellfrost or Deadlands) or plot point books (50 Fathoms, Deadlands The Flood, Necessary Evil,... seriously get 50 Fathoms and read it; their best example of a plot point books capability). In the thread I saw mention on SW moving to a Rules+Setting book... there were 2 (ever) made that I know of (Pirates and Solomon Kane) and only one is still in print; even their main settings of Deadlands, Hell on Earth, Noir, etc. all require the main book. Think that shows that for SW players at least they prefer to have a main rulebook separate from the settings. The main book costing $10 made it take off like gangbusters. Savage Worlds has set their focus on the time constrained gamers (adults with jobs and children) with their plot point settings and rules in general. While they do have some genre books (supers and horror; IMHO SW doesn't do supers well as it isn't scalable). I personally prefer hero to have a genre free rulebook and was a bit sad that it was champions focus. Like others I prefer hero for fantasy and I wasn't well pleased having it be superhero focused. But I got the book and found that the superhero focus was just art, some text, and a few pages of genre info at the back. So with the idea that CC was the core rulebook going forward, I picked up 5 copies. I'm a bit miffed to learn there will be a fantasy hero complete ... won't be buying since I already have 2 core rulesets. Actually I've never bought any Hero setting/genre+rules included books (dropped out of the Narosia kickstarter because it did) after the different lines merged into Hero System as it violates what Hero means to me (one genre free rules book). Maybe I'd buy a customized ruleset for a focused fantasy gaming experience that was based on Hero.... something to whet new players appetite for the potential of Hero and only had what was core for the game (so didn't reprint the entire core rules from CC). On that note I'd actually recommend streamlining the game in general. Take a look at these sheets teh bunneh uses for Titans http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/89685-Hero-GUI?p=2332424#post2332424 Something like that would work quite well for fantasy.... the sheet can look pretty similar to what they are used to (D&D and Hero core stats aren't that different), there is no endurance, and no speed. The experience of such a dungeon hero game would be quite similar to D&D, help alleviate some fear on the complexity of hero compared to D&D (... D&D 3.X is more complicated than Hero really). A bunch of templates, talents, spells, etc in that format could be quite compelling and then point them at the core rulebook if they want to build their own stuff. Of course it is sacrificing some sacred Hero cows. There is much about Savage Worlds rules I don't like - not scalable, randomly deadly from exploding dice, and the powers are completely combat focused (how useful is shapeshifting to a house cat for a minute or two). But I buy and play their products anyway because they very successfully targeted my gamer profile (married, demanding job, kids) with their core rules + setting plot-point books. I also like Pathfinder's setting, modules, and adventure paths. I could run my newly acquired Rise of the Runelords for a year or more with my group with no more prep than reading the adventure and making some notes. But good lord the rules are a killer... spread across an infinite number of books with loopholes aplenty for power gamer builds. I could just limit it to the core and maybe advanced players guide... but still some good opportunity for power builds (or crap builds). I'd love to see Hero go somewhat in the direction of Savage Worlds or Pathfinder. Core rules and a way to hit the ground running. I still want the genre toolkits too for when I have time... but I know what I (and many others) need is something that lets me just run with low prep and that is where Savage Worlds and Pathfinder win. Some will say "you can't make money with modules"... tell that to Paizo and Savage Worlds folks. Piazo makes some good money on the rules but as far as I can gell the modules and adventure paths are serious money makers and certainly one of the reasons they had a market before making Pathfinder.

Re: Fantasy Fiction From Steve in THE END WAS NOT THE END Anthology Sounds like just my sort of anthology. Looking forward to it.

Re: Why does DEX affect OCV and DCV equally? I found that people just changed their concepts to take advantage of the cost breaks that figured stats gave you. "That Dex and Str were integral to my character concept because of ... Oh, it saved me a bunch of points!? I never noticed ;)" With some groups I found that slowly this happened to everyone as the arms race of point efficiency infected their thinking. Doesn't happen to all groups but it did with several I was involved in and soured me on Hero for a while (everyone was a martial artist gadgeteer and layers of defenses with different activation rolls because they could shave points... I did so love the look on some of their faces when I ran an adventure that began with them getting captured and their gear taken). Strength was also a good bargin... I saw many strong blasters and wizards for that reason.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete What are the 4 books you speak of? The bulk of CC is from "Hero System 6E Volume 1: Character Creation" (466pg) and "Hero System 6E Volume 2: Combat and Adventuring" (322pg) - prior to CC these were the only two books you really need, everything else is an exploration of genre and examples. Third book might be the genre book: "Champions 6E" (304pg). But honestly there isn't that much of that book in CC there is only 20 pages of exploration of genre, templates, and other Champions focused stuff in the book. There is nothing of "Champions Universe" the dedicated setting book. Maybe the 4th book was "Hero System 6E Basic" book at 138 pages. But that was a simplified (less explanation and examples) version of volume 1 and 2 with some things missing.... CC feels like the complete version of basic. CC is a condensed version of V1&2 that has all the rules but less of the explanation and examples (plus some reorganization like putting all the power modifiers not specific to a power in one place). I've been playing champions since 81 (maybe 82) and its way of doing thing has influenced my expectations of games in general. Most superhero games (actually most rpgs) have "description based" powers. Powers are things like Gravity Control, Fire Powers, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, etc. Each power is a rule in itself and not very modular. In all games there really are a limited number of effects you can do - damage someone, apply some modifiers to some roll, stun, KO, move, etc. Instead of burying these discrete effects in complex powers; Hero System breaks out each effect you can achieve in the system into discrete effects and modifiers to those effects. You then build up a power out of these effects. So a lightning bolt is an Energy Blast (or Ranged Killing Attack) that looks like lightning and could have some secondary effects like jumpstarting a car at the GMs digression. A fireball is just an Energy Blast (or Ranged Killing) that looks like fire but has a modifier to make it area effect. So in essence Hero breaks things down into an "effect based" system with "special effects" that flesh out the description. I have a strong preference for "effects based" system because they expose the inner workings of the game to the GM and Players and allows them to build whatever they want. Other games often make you buy a supplement or make something up that may not be balanced at all to extend the system. This toolkit approach makes Hero System/Champions easy to apply to just about any genre.

Re: After The Magic Ever read "The Magic Goes Away" by Larry Niven. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Goes_Away Magic Goes Away Collection Basically magic was a non/renewable or slowly renewing energy source so it was eventually eaten up by gods and magicians. Gods were first to go when the magic dropped to low and eventually it got to low for even magicians and the world was taken over barbarians (actually magic being used up in an area was the reasons civilizations like atlantis fell). In first story I ever read the main characters wanted to bring the magic back. Seems that magic gets stronger the higher up you go (some renewing from the sun I think) and they get the idea that the moon is basically magic. They waken a lost god who decides that is a good idea, he will crash the moon into the earth and bring about a new age of magic. Not to worry about everyone dying ... he will have enough power to remake everything he wants. The main characters aren't too pleased about humanity getting under the thumb of the gods again. Anyway the books have some good ideas of adventures in a world where magic dwindles... getting old magic items that have the old power, cities crumbling as the enchantments fade, rising of a new form of magic (shamanism), etc.

Re: What do I need? New to HERO. Important to note that the warning "Damaged Cover" really means there is likely just some small scuff or dogeared corner. I'm very happy with my damaged cover and keep wishing more of the books would meet such an unfortunate accident so I could get a discount . Others were right on the money. Get the 2 core books or wait for Champions Complete (still wish it wasn't champions focused and just was "Hero Complete"). That is all you need really if you are willing to "do the math" and make everything else up. Fantasy Hero gives some great design ideas and I'd really recommend it. After all that, there are some supplements that would provide premade goodies: Grimoire for spells, maybe some of the new Magic Spells pdfs for more spells, the Besitary for monsters. You could even reach back to hero 5th edition things like "Enchanted Items", the Asian Bestiary, and others. Converting isn't that hard.

Re: Announcement: The Monster Hunter International RPG! In the same boat as Tasha.... not pleased by the bundling of rules and setting. I've found that over the years I target generic systems (Hero, Savage Worlds, kinda GURPS ... don't like GURPS much) because of the one rulebook covering multiple settings. I typically stop buying books when I'm sold the rules again (White Wolf). Now if the rules are really customized then maybe. Too bad I've had MHI on my list since reading his other books the Grimnoir Chronicles.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Very true "champions" isn't tied to supers. But it might have confused the champions universe setting name. Course there is the multiverse concept in champions (now, cant recall if there was then) so the other games could have just been alternate worlds and kept the conceptual tie.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete No problem. Wrote up a big post, organized responses into sections, but then realized I really didn't want to inflict a "giant wall of text" on someone Got things off chest and available if anyone cares. Could probably have improved the text... but had to get back to work rather than write a dissertation.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Been busy, missed some of the posts so I'm catching up a bit. I directly dropped a line to Derek to express my excitement about CC and Eternity Island. Had a 25+ year love of Hero (not always playing) that I don't intend to stop now. Long winded stuff below hidden in sections to not be such a bother.: REGARDING HERO SYSTEM vs CHAMPIONS COMPLETE

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Despite wanting "Hero System" rather than "Champions Complete" (would rather have a multigenre core book than a supers focused one); I am really looking forward to the book. I love it when authors listen to feedback and like the idea of "elegant crunch".

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Yeah, really hard to sell supplements when you can't get the main book. I have a very hard time selling games to my group when they can't get the rulebooks... and my group will play just about anything I run. Hoping that CC sells well and stays in print.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete No matter what I may gripe about below; I'm very excited about "Champions Complete", think it will do well, and congratulations all around. A single $40 Print + PDF book is very approchable and I have high hopes it will bring new people to Hero. Glad to see that while the cover and examples will be geared toward Champions, it is still the full generic Hero I know and love. I'll be sad to see the full 6E1&2 go though. My wife and I talked about things and what we thought would be great is a concise book (like the one being made) but still having the more lengthly explanations and examples of the big books available is helpful for clarity. But I've got the full books and really only need one set to help clarify things. Maybe there will someday be a "Hero Explained" or "Hero FAQ" to fill in the gaps. Overall having one complete book is much better than basic and 2 full books. Much more approchable and easier to sell to new players. I'm going to really enjoy this reorganization I think. Actually I'm in this boat somewhat. I've played/run M&M and love it but was getting back into Hero for several reasons. One thing I wanted was a better explanation of things as M&M3E is very vague in parts (shapable area of effect). Another thing I wanted was a system that covers other genres better. I do disagree that M&M is less customizable in the superhero genre but it is less usable than hero cross genre... everything feels like a superhero comicc in M&M (especially 3E). Hero works less well for me as a superhero game than M&M; even back in the Champions 1st edtion days I had trouble with the concept of tracking endurance for a superhero (rarely do I see superheroes hiding behind a wall to take a recovery). But Fantasy Hero 1E did things so much better than D&D (then and now). As I mentioned above, I think that Steve's work is great reference material to explain things in detail. I've got some power gamers and people that like to do strange stuff in general and having a detailed explanation helps. But for general use I've wanted a more concise version. I also liked the 10 templates and power blocks mentioned in other posts... just thought I'd quoted enough for one day

Re: Hero System Sixth Edition Concise Excellent, I'll pick up one or two. Don't really plan on using it for Superhero games but a concise writeup with all the rules is exactly what I want.

Re: 5E Fantasy Hero hardcover Might be worth a try to see if they have fixed it... or report the problem. I've been able to sell some vintage rpgs on ebay (that I had multiple copies of... a collector so it is hard to let go). Another option might be selling to Noble Knight Games ... I've considered doing that for a bulk sale (shelves getting crowded and baby toys displacing space in house) but I'm not sure if it is worth it for one book. Was top of my mind because I had to write some code for it a few weeks ago (matching by zip strings instead of geocoded zip that might be from old data). Still need to import new geoshapes for all the new zip codes. Zips are a pain but shouldn't be for old ones.