jp42

That makes sense to me. I do think I will change up the rule a little, though, to allow for greater flexibility, though I'm not sure how just yet. But being caught outside ought to be something that you can make up for with a less effective attack (-1 OCV) or with greater chance of being caught ought by it (-2 DCV, say, as an example).

Did I dream this, or is there already an option in Hero somewhere for hitting someone with the flat of your blade - is that all included in pulling punches? And might you use the same rules in a mandatory fashion for someone who wants to whack their opponent with the shaft of their spear instead of sticking the pointy bit into their fleshy parts? I was AFB (or rather AFPDF) at the time, so I couldn't go look it up. I'll give that section a re-read when I get the chance.

Did I dream this, or is there already an option in Hero somewhere for hitting someone with the flat of your blade - is that all included in pulling punches? And might you use the same rules in a mandatory fashion for someone who wants to whack their opponent with the shaft of their spear instead of sticking the pointy bit into their fleshy parts?

I think it's more complex than the current system models. If the situation is dagger versus spear, and dagger advances two meters to be able to attack, spear has to either step back two meters, or change his grip radically to be able to use the point of the spear effectively. It's less of an issue if it's a greatsword with the longer reach, as swords work well at anything but immediate, in-your-face range, where they can wind up being less than useful. I mean, I can see what you're saying - yes, you have to close the range to attack at all. But what happens if you close the range and you don't hit? Do you automatically get pushed back to where you started? Does the defender with the larger weapon move backwards automatically? Or does he just maintain his lack-of-penalty to hit you, even though his weapon might remarkably constrained at that range?

I wonder why that is. I mean, the system provides for 360-degree vision, but doesn't include the concept of facing... I'm wondering if it would be inappropriate to say that weapon reach differences lead to an OCV penalty, per 6E2, p.202, or the individual can invest a half-move in closing or extending the distance, and trade the OCV penalty for an equivalent DCV penalty - trading the higher risk of being hit for lack of reduction of offensive power.

Really, just the assumption that, since weapon size explicitly increases your Reach by a set number of meters, and there shouldn't be any reason why you can't just step forward to close that distance - but that's probably too much reliance on my background in GURPS combat. I suspect that this boils down to a problem I'm going to have with the system as written, and that's the failure to rely on a hex map for accurate placement of individuals and terrain, to deal with facing and the like. It pains me to resort to house-rules so early in my exposure to a system, but this might be a deal breaker for me otherwise.

Thanks, Bigbywolfe and RRavenwood for the feedback. I did hose up Phase 8 a bit, and I'll tweak it to follow the rules while not changing the outcome too drastically. I'm considering a two-column version, with flavor text on one side and mechanics on the other, and will include relevant character stats as well.

I always used the 11+OCV-DCV, but that's probably because that's how it was in Champions, back in the day. The very old day. 2nd Edition days, I believe. That said, the version where the player doesn't get to know, but can eventually deduce the target's DCV is a better option in most cases.

I think I'm with Ostof on this one - Perception and Intelligence aren't necessarily related to one another - an individual can be pretty dim, but observant (easy to do with Enhanced Senses) and an individual can be remarkably bright, but oblivious (less so). I think it's totally a candidate for being separated.

So, I'm hoping you all will be honest about the mechanics that I screwed up here. I tried to take good notes of the results of a sample combat between two pit fighters, and I'm sure I've hosed something up somewhere... ========== Sebastian hadn't been imprisoned for long, but he'd quickly learned the one important lesson - to stay alive, you had to survive in the arena. They'd outfitted him with some unfamiliar gear - a stout hauberk of bronze lamellar, and a pair of sturdy soft leather boots. He wished he'd been issued a helm, but that didn't seem to be customary in these fights. Instead, he was forced to make due with a battered but still serviceable wooden shield and a heavy falchion - nothing like the smaller, lighter shortsword he was used to, but easy enough to acclimatize himself to in short order. Entering the arena, he found himself facing a veritable giant, a fellow he had encountered in the pens who was called Abraxas, and stood a good head taller than Sebastian. He wore a coat of mail, and studded leather greaves, and Sebastian was glad to see he wasn't the only one without a helmet for this fight. Abraxas also carried a huge poleax rather than a sword and shield. They stood facing one another, about 12 meters apart, and at the sound of a bell Sebastian knew it was time to fight. Turn 0: Phase 12 Sebastian, with a DEX of 15, goes first, but decides to hold his action and evaluate what Abraxas does first. Abraxas lumbers forward five long steps, covering as many meters and stops, adopting a wary stance. Sebastian closes the remaining distance (a half-move for him) and attempts a cut at the big man. He puts his two CLSs into OCV, and uses Martial Strike. This gives him an OCV of 8 (6 base + 2 CSLs -1 for shorter weapon reach +1 for natural accuracy of the falchion), DCV 8 (4 base + 2 for the maneuver +2 for the shield). Abraxas aborts to his held half-phase action for a Block, and puts all 7 of his CSLs into OCV, giving him an OCV of 10 (4 base + 7 CSLs -1 for the inherent inaccuracy of the axe), DCV 4. Abraxas rolls to block (11+10-8 = 13-) and gets a 14, just missing on his block. Sebastian has an easy target now, (11+8-4 = 15-) and his roll of 8 is more than sufficient to land a hit. Hit location is determined by 3d6, and the result is an 11, a blow to the chest. The damage is 2 BODY, and the location gives a x3 multiplier for 6 STUN. Unfortunately for Sebastian, Abraxas has 6 points of resistant PD just from his hauberk of mail, and doesn't even really feel the glancing blow. Turn 0: Post-Phase 12 Recovery Abraxas used 1 END for movement (5m) and 1 END for his block. His REC is 6, so he recovers both lost END. Sebastian used 1 END for movement (7m), 1 END for the martial strike, and 3 for his STR in the attack. His REC is 6, so he recovers all five lost END. Turn 1: Phase 4 Had Abraxas successfully blocked last during his last phase, he would go first this phase. As he failed in his roll, he is forced to go second. Sebastian goes for anther hit, and having hit on his last phase, is no longer at -1 due to reach - he got inside the reach of the axe. Abraxas again aborts to Block, with the same values as last time. Abraxas is rolling against (11+10-9 = 12-) and rolls a 13, failing to block again! Sebastian is rolling against a 16-, and once again gets an 8, scoring a hit. This time, the location rolls is a 13, a low blow, but one still protected by chain armor. The damage roll is a total of 5 BODY, and with a x4 multiplier, 20 STUN. The armor protects against any of the BODY damage getting through, and combined with the giant's natural PD of 6, stops all but 8 points of STUN damage from getting through, reducing him to 22 STUN. His CON of 20 means that it'll require a much harder hit to actually stun Abraxas, who takes the blow to his midsection with a grunt, but the metal of his armor protects his guts from decorating the sandy floor of the arena. Turn 1: Phase 8 Sebastian goes first again, and would like to target something unprotected, but he's seen how skilled his opponent is, and that he's only just barely gotten past his defenses twice now. He opts instead to take two attacks, at a -2 to each attack, the first a shield bash, the second a cut with his falchion. Abraxas opts for one more attempt at blocking. He's rolling against (11+10-7) a 14- for his first block, to stop the shield bash, and his 10 is successful, getting his axe in the way. The second attack requires a second block, at -2, for a target of 12-. He rolls an 11 and has successfully blocked both attacks. Turn 1: Phase 12 Having finally blocked successfully, Abraxas gets to go first this turn, and he opts to take a half-move to step back 1 meter, removing the -1 penalty for having his target inside his reach, and makes a standard chop at Sebastian. Sebastian aborts this time, to block, using his shield (the +2 DCV bonus is also an OCV bonus when used for Block). Abraxas has an OCV of 10, Sebastian has an OCV of (6+2 for the shield +2 for the martial block maneuver) 10 as well, and needs an 11- to block the attack. He rolls a 5 and easily succeeds, interposing his shield between himself and the incoming axe. Turn 1: Post-Phase 12 Recovery Abraxas has used 8 END (4 for STR, 3 for maneuvers, 1 for movement) and recovers 6 of them, leaving his END at 38. He took a blow to the bread-basket for 8 STUN, recovers 6 of them and is now back up to 28 STUN. Sebastian used 9 END (6 for STR, 3 for maneuvers) and recovers 6 of them, leaving him at 27 END The crowd is still cheering on the fight, having seen some minor blows and some dancing about, but keen to see some bloodshed. Turn 2: Phase 4 Sebastian is back on the offensive, but is back out of his ideal range, so has a -1 to his OCV once more. He steps forward, pressing his opponent to eliminate that penalty and takes a swing at Abraxas, who opts as usual to block. Abraxas needs a 12- to block, and rolls a 10, easily batting the sword blade aside. Turn 2: Phase 8 Abraxas goes first this time, steps back 1 meter (to eliminate any OCV penalty but leaving only 3 meters between himself and the wall) and opts for a double attack as well. Instead of blocking, Sebastian opts to abort to Dodge, and put his levels in DCV. This gives him a DCV of 4 + 2 CSLs +5 maneuver +2 shield = 13. Abraxas's chance to hit is (11+10-13-2) 6-, twice. Sebasitan gets no active defense roll against these attacks. His first roll is a 13, entirely wide of Sebastian as he dances away, but his second roll, a 5, is enough to catch the wily fellow! Abraxas's poleax does 2d+1 damage (including his STR bonus), for a total of 9 BODY to the 14, a hit to the thighs. Sebastian is lucky that his hauberk hangs long enough to cover his thighs or he would be in real trouble. As it is, the lamellar protects him from 5 BODY of damage, leaving 4 to get through, reducing Sebastian to 6 BODY and drawing first blood. The location also has a x2 STUN multiplier, meaning that the hit does 18 STUN. His armor combines with his natural PD of 5 to stop 10 points of STUN, leaving 8 to get through, reducing his STUN total to 16. He isn't stunned by the attack (CON 15) but he felt this one, and it's a significant blow. As the injury (the amount of BODY caused, before or after the BODY multiplier - in this case x1) was not not in excess of half of Sebastian's BODY score, there is no impairment or disabling to be checked, but as BODY damage was done, bleeding may occur. The crowd cheers lustily as the first wound of the match strikes home. Turn 2: Phase 12 Sebastian goes first, and grimly closes the distance to his foe. He opts for a standard attack and Abraxas gamely tries to block, needing a 12-. He rolls a 14, and fails once again to block the blow. Sebastian rolls to hit (11+9-4) at 16-, and gets a 12. The hit location is a 5! A shot to the head! BODY damage done is only 3, but the stun multiplier is x5, and the BODY multiplier is x2, and Abraxas wears no helm. He's protected only by his own natural PD, which will not stop the BODY damage from a killing attack. He takes 6 BODY to the head, and 15 - 6 = 9 STUN, and he's bleeding like a stuck pig, but isn't stunned from the attack itself. The BODY damage is more than half his BODY score, however, so he has to roll on the Impairment table. The result of 1d6 on the table indicates that he will only be impaired for one turn, and the GM rules that Abraxas has been knocked briefly unconscious by the blow. His eyes roll up into his head and he crumples to the ground. Sebastian raises his falchion in the air - not for a killing blow, but in salute to the crowd. They cheer him lustily, and slaves enter the arena to haul Abraxas out. Abraxas is able to stand by the time they reach his side, and they each take an arm and lead him through his gate and back to the cells. Sebastian stops briefly, checking on the wound on his leg. It bleeds for 5 additional STUN worth of damage, and he hobbles around the arena, making a brave show of receiving the plaudits of the crowd. Another thing a pit fighter has to remember is that the crowd can decide if he lives or dies just as easily as his opponent.

That's as close to a tutorial as I've seen, in a very brief example. I'm going to keep working on a more extensive example, with things like impairments, bleeding, hit locations and the like, and I'll post it here.

I've been looking for just such an example or tutorial for heroic play as opposed to superheroic play (I agree that the example from Champions Complete is pretty great), and have all but given up looking. Thinking it might be smart to just create one for myself, post it here, and let the experts tear it up for me so I can make it better.

Re: Stunning Environment option w/in "Change Environment" Yeah, 30 points, only targets one individual at a time (if I'm reading correctly), and has a big ol' stop sign next to it.

Re: Minimalist HERO? Those are some fine pregens, but I think for a truly minimalist feel, you'd have to all but build an intermediary game out of the HERO rules. Use the rules as the GM to design powers, reduce them down to "slots" or "levels" and let the players pick them to build characters out of. That would be a good first step.

Re: A Thread for Random Musings "Sometime Around Midnight" by The Airborne Toxic Event. If the song doesn't elicit from you a visceral, hair-on-the-back-of-your-neck reaction, I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for you, or congratulate you on your successful love life...

Re: Alternative Necromancy GURPS default magic system addresses this, with their spell prerequisites. Resurrection in that system requires that the mage in question know how to summon the spirit of the deceased back to the material plane, which itself has a prerequisite of the Death Vision spell, so you're forced to dip your toes into the forbidden to gain access to the whitest of white magic.

Re: Ctrl+V 3fUOT I feel all... cryptic and enigmatic.

Re: Maximizing Realism - what optional rules are essential?

Re: Maximizing Realism - what optional rules are essential? This is probably the best unsolicited advice ever. I would never turn on all of these optional rules without explicitly spelling out how they would impact play, that's for sure. And I think it will be okay if the players in question are new to the system, but come from a similarly realistic system. Great stuff here, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to share your experience using the system in a more realistic manner. Anything I should be concerned about outside of combat? Encumbrance rules sound like they'll be broadly applicable.

I've played Hero games since the mid-80s, back when it was called Champions, and still love the system. That said, I'm looking for ways to take it out of the cinematic hero realm and into a more grittily realistic style of game. What are the optional rules (and the books they're included in) that you'd recommend as being essential to making that sort of system out of the vanilla 6E rules?

Re: no one stronger then me I think I'd want to know more about the special effects before I said what sort of build made the most sense. Might be straight STR bought with a limitation on how much can be used. Might be an Aid that kicks in and fires off again and again until your STR exceeds that of the highest on the field.

Re: Hero Central Down for?? Woah, DDoS attacks against role playing game websites? That just doesn't make any sense at all. Though it does explain the terrible performance on this website the last couple of weeks...

Re: Why does DEX affect OCV and DCV equally? The change in 6e was one of my favorite changes. I really like the fact that OCV and DCV are separate, and that you can then add in things like WFs to represent knowledge of specific weapon types, and then levels to give tightly constrained bonuses in certain situations. It lends a level of granularity that many systems lack. As for the way 5e handled it, there's really a significant difference between the results of a 3d6 roll with a +/- 1 associated with it (might be really important, near the middle of the curve, not so much on either end) versus the rather larger distribution of damage dice, which tends to be more linear.

Re: [Compilation] "to Star HERO Conversions & Adaptations" Many of the links for the things I was interested in (Star Frontiers, Traveller) are either dead, or from 2003-4. Does anyone have any updates for either of these conversions for 6e?