Thia Halmades

OK...it's unlikely that we'll be able to get away without any political discussion taking place in the forums (despite the fact that the forums are for an RPG and there are plenty of other arenas for political discourse) -- so we're going to make a dedicated spot for them to take place.  With rules that will be followed.
 
Before I get into the rules, a little bit about self-policing.  You guys are a good group.  I'm assuming that, political differences aside, you'd like to keep each other around.  So you're going to be the first level of checks that will take place.  This is the ONLY US political discussion thread that is going to be around.  If you see someone start another thread for politics, or if you see another thread head that direction, it's in your best interest to shut it down quickly.  Once I get wind of it, the thread originator (or poster who diverted the thread) will be moderated or banned from the forums (depending on the nature of the post). No arguments, and no discussions.
 
No, I'm not going to sticky this thread. No I'm not going to make a general announcement on the rules.  The rules are largely unchanged from the general rules of the forum -- ensuring that others are up to speed and don't unintentionally violate them is on you.  Talk to them before I do.
 
Now, onto the rules for this thread:
 
1. I will be monitoring this thread heavily. Email notifications, reading along as time allows, etc. I don't give warnings -- if you fail to follow the rules, you will be moderated or banned outright.  If this bothers you, I would suggest NOT participating in this thread.  Find any of the plethora of other areas of the interwebs for your political discussions.
 
2. Lies or half-truths which are determined to be intentionally communicated on your part will not be tolerated.  You present the facts. If you're not sure of the facts, then you don't post.  If you want to post something that you saw and agree with, you will want to make sure you do your due diligence and research it first to ensure that you are not passing along lies and/or half-truths which happen to be in line with your political view. 
 
3. Attacking of other forum members is subject to immediate banning.  Don't like what someone has to say? Great! Post a factually accurate counter point to their argument and make your case.  Discuss the topic, not the poster.
 
4. This thread is meant to be a place where ADULTS can have a SANE, RATIONAL discussion of politics. Posts which are viewed to be in violation of this concept will not be tolerated.  Yes, this is a very general rule -- use your brain and interpret it to the best of your ability. If you feel that this makes it difficult to know where the "line" is and that you may accidentally cross it, then I would strongly advise that you not come anywhere near the line. If this means that you are uncomfortable posting in this thread for fear of crossing an arbitrary line, I would refer you to rule 1.

It appears that yes, I can.

For everyone else:  LEARN TO READ.  The Rules Questions forum is not the place for discussion.  I will start using the infraction system for repeat offenders -- it's not fair to those who want to use the Q&A forum for what it's supposed to be to keep moving questions here when you just can't keep yourself from commenting and discussing rather than answering.

Deep down, I like the idea of a Descent: Freespace meets MechWarrior vibe;
 
It’s after the war. Mankind has been busy rebuilding. Despite what we expected, we didn’t get bombed back to the Stone Age, but the deconstruction of super powers gave rise to new leadership, focused heavily on science and the technological advancements required to save our planet. The mechs started as more efficient excavation machines, drilling, moving earth, lifting heavy objects. That sort of thing. It wasn’t long, though, before patterns re-emerged. Market leaders were approached by new governments who wanted to “protect themselves” against non-existent threats; threats that arose because they armed. And here we are, again. That was 200 years ago.
 
Me? I’m a humble mechanic. Then one of my pilots got sprayed all over the inside of his machine by a microwave gun because his shielding wasn’t maintained right. A problem I had logged a half dozen times but was told “Hey, how often do they bring those things out? They’re not going to melt anybody.” Yeah...
 
So they cleaned out the cockpit and say “Jackie! You know this beast better than any of us!” I blinked and pointed out that doing VR sims based on current telemetry, while it’s fun to post high scores, is really a diagnostic tool so we can figure out what’s going to happen or what may have gone wrong or where repairs are needed by simulating stress on the machine. Nope. “Girl, you’ve got a hot hand and you can think on your feet.” I saw the first ones when they came down. The flash. Thought people were dropping bombs, but there were no planes, no radar signatures, it was all visual. Next thing we know, armored nightmares start crawling along the ground. We stood fast. Scanned, scanned again. Nothing came up, system choked like a bad sniper with the game winning goal in his glove. That was ten years ago.
 
This is my apocalypse.
 
Introduce the game as fighting for independence to avoid past mistakes, then ramp into alien invasion. The key for me in this setting is to keep the politics. Aliens arrived. Nothing changed except now we’re fighting a war on multiple fronts. 

This is not a discussion thread, it’s a textual answer thread. I respect the conversation, and even want to participate, but please move it to System Discussion forum, rather than the specific rule helpline.
 
Thank you.

@Duke Bushido Here’s the wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent:_FreeSpace_–_The_Great_War
 
Here’s an excellent explanation of the Shivans, their introduction and why they remain terrifying to this day: When I’m relating your idea, I’m thinking of a threat very similar to this, Lovecraftian in nature, forcing an all new arms race and who unchecked is going to run rough shod over everyone. 
 
 
 

Holy rabbit holes, Batman!
 
What?
 
These rabbits. They dig holes. All over the yard.
 
Massey kind of nailed this, actually, and you have caught onto the gist of it; a power, in a very real sense, “is” its special effect. When we talk about reason from effect, this is precisely what we mean. If it gives your ego a boost, and I hope it does, when I built my dragon transformer, I did it in the exact same way you did. Bought a bunch of growth, flight, and he can shoot lasers from his mouth (I based him on the “race” of Bahamut from FF VII). When those powers activate as a suite, he turned into a dragon. I bought Striking Appearance: Dragon (OIAID, -1/4) to help his PRE attacks, but that was it. Because Shapeshift would be a waste of points, he’s not a shape shifter. He turns into a dragon. He could have been Godzilla, the Hulk, an orange dude in blue underwear made outta rocks (...the underwear, super chafing). 
 
Your second question is “fire blast?” Correct. You purchase EB and define the special effect at that time. Per 6E1:
 
The special effects of a Power define how it 
works, what it looks like, and any other inci-
dental effects associated with it. Sometimes a 
Power receives minor benefits and drawbacks 
because of its special effects. These minor modi-
fiers don’t change the cost of the Power, but if 
the special effect provides a major benefit, you 
have to pay Character Points for that to buy an 
Advantage (6E1, Chapter Six)
 
So your blast is “fire.” It behaves like fire at no additional cost. Your blast is magic, but the setting says “all magic attacks are inherently armor piercing,” so by saying “this is magic” you also must, per the campaign, purchase Armor Piercing. The excellent 5th Edition Ultimate Energy Projector is both a treasure trove of options and a positive nightmare if you approach with the “poor lost souls” mentality. 

But if you start thinking of those things, then you are starting to think like a HERO player. And to go back to a what I was saying in a prior thread, it’s the way of thinking that really separates HERO players from conventional OTS gamers. 

Holy rabbit holes, Batman!
 
What?
 
These rabbits. They dig holes. All over the yard.
 
Massey kind of nailed this, actually, and you have caught onto the gist of it; a power, in a very real sense, “is” its special effect. When we talk about reason from effect, this is precisely what we mean. If it gives your ego a boost, and I hope it does, when I built my dragon transformer, I did it in the exact same way you did. Bought a bunch of growth, flight, and he can shoot lasers from his mouth (I based him on the “race” of Bahamut from FF VII). When those powers activate as a suite, he turned into a dragon. I bought Striking Appearance: Dragon (OIAID, -1/4) to help his PRE attacks, but that was it. Because Shapeshift would be a waste of points, he’s not a shape shifter. He turns into a dragon. He could have been Godzilla, the Hulk, an orange dude in blue underwear made outta rocks (...the underwear, super chafing). 
 
Your second question is “fire blast?” Correct. You purchase EB and define the special effect at that time. Per 6E1:
 
The special effects of a Power define how it 
works, what it looks like, and any other inci-
dental effects associated with it. Sometimes a 
Power receives minor benefits and drawbacks 
because of its special effects. These minor modi-
fiers don’t change the cost of the Power, but if 
the special effect provides a major benefit, you 
have to pay Character Points for that to buy an 
Advantage (6E1, Chapter Six)
 
So your blast is “fire.” It behaves like fire at no additional cost. Your blast is magic, but the setting says “all magic attacks are inherently armor piercing,” so by saying “this is magic” you also must, per the campaign, purchase Armor Piercing. The excellent 5th Edition Ultimate Energy Projector is both a treasure trove of options and a positive nightmare if you approach with the “poor lost souls” mentality. 

I have something to add here.
 
That answer was freakin’ epic. *slow clap* @mallet Bloody good show.
 
Get it? Vampire? Bloody? Because they drink blood? Amirite? Guys?
 
Where are you going?
 
Hey wait up!!
 
Moving on!
 
If I’m understanding the rule right, upon summon you get assignable tasks based on EGO, your Necromancer can purchase EGO, Only to Assign Tasks to Summoned Creatures, (-1). Why -1? Because he’s going to use it freaking constantly. As an aside to that aside, I generally don’t allow purchasing of stats over and above beyond 2x the base; so in a world of NCM, where they bought to 20, I’m going to keep the total possible at 40. One thing I learned early in HERO — you must set limits. Because players be like ‘wooooo!’ And you have to be all ‘noooooooo. Seriously, Chris, no, you cannot do that. Because it’ll break the game, that’s why. No, we’re not going to test it. Dude, seriously...”
 
(actual conversation, actually held multiple times).
(with the same freakin’ guy).

I have something to add here.
 
That answer was freakin’ epic. *slow clap* @mallet Bloody good show.
 
Get it? Vampire? Bloody? Because they drink blood? Amirite? Guys?
 
Where are you going?
 
Hey wait up!!
 
Moving on!
 
If I’m understanding the rule right, upon summon you get assignable tasks based on EGO, your Necromancer can purchase EGO, Only to Assign Tasks to Summoned Creatures, (-1). Why -1? Because he’s going to use it freaking constantly. As an aside to that aside, I generally don’t allow purchasing of stats over and above beyond 2x the base; so in a world of NCM, where they bought to 20, I’m going to keep the total possible at 40. One thing I learned early in HERO — you must set limits. Because players be like ‘wooooo!’ And you have to be all ‘noooooooo. Seriously, Chris, no, you cannot do that. Because it’ll break the game, that’s why. No, we’re not going to test it. Dude, seriously...”
 
(actual conversation, actually held multiple times).
(with the same freakin’ guy).

I did, as UBO.

You received a lot of information because you posted a freaking essay. And continue to do so.  Spend some time learning how to concisely and clearly state what you're after if you don't want folks to take sidelines based on the myriad and varied points in your posts.
 
It's generally to be assumed that you should realize that Trigger is a different Modifier from Linked and intended to represent different things.  You started this by suggesting that Trigger could be more limiting than Linked in certain contrived instances....which indicates a lack of understanding of the difference between the two Modifiers and Trigger in particular...so we spent time on that.

If you are after a set of gloves that can be charged up such that they emit a large Flash when you strike someone, that's a good case for Trigger.  You set the ability (charge the gloves) and then leave it until such time as you successfully hit someone, at which point you can choose to reset the Trigger if desired. It's appropriately classified as an Advantage for this build.
 
If you're after something different, then you build from effect.  Define how it works within the mechanics of the system and then take the appropriate Modifiers.  Maybe Trigger, maybe Linked, maybe Damage Shield, maybe some combination of them -- it's all about what you're after, which after multiple pages of text that you've posted is still unclear.
 
 

There is a tribe of Hero gamers who are worried that somebody might get something in the game without paying for it.  These poor lost souls will try to require every possible point expenditure that they can think of.  If they can think of a power that might possibly be related to the one you already have, they will want to see it on the character sheet as well.  This mentality seemed to hit its peak in the Steve Long 5th edition character books.  Unfortunately, all it does is limit the characters that people actually choose to play, by making cooler concepts too expensive to be competitive.
 
The purpose of the Shapeshift power is to let you assume a variety of different forms.  A character with Shapeshift and appropriate levels of Growth can look like a regular guy, a small asian woman, a big dog, a motorcycle, a leather recliner, an elephant, a big monster, etc.  Is your Growth power this versatile?  Probably not.  Do you always change into the same big monster every time you use your power?  Probably so.  If that's the case, in my opinion, you don't need Shapeshift.

I had some spare points, so I bought some campaign appropriate psychic abilities. Low grade telepathy (No Conscious Control), Precognition (...No Conscious Control) and so on. When it works, it’s always right, but it never, ever, works on demand.

I have something to add here.
 
That answer was freakin’ epic. *slow clap* @mallet Bloody good show.
 
Get it? Vampire? Bloody? Because they drink blood? Amirite? Guys?
 
Where are you going?
 
Hey wait up!!
 
Moving on!
 
If I’m understanding the rule right, upon summon you get assignable tasks based on EGO, your Necromancer can purchase EGO, Only to Assign Tasks to Summoned Creatures, (-1). Why -1? Because he’s going to use it freaking constantly. As an aside to that aside, I generally don’t allow purchasing of stats over and above beyond 2x the base; so in a world of NCM, where they bought to 20, I’m going to keep the total possible at 40. One thing I learned early in HERO — you must set limits. Because players be like ‘wooooo!’ And you have to be all ‘noooooooo. Seriously, Chris, no, you cannot do that. Because it’ll break the game, that’s why. No, we’re not going to test it. Dude, seriously...”
 
(actual conversation, actually held multiple times).
(with the same freakin’ guy).

This is actually my point; I believe in this post, somewhere, I pointed out that it’s just as interesting if not more so to watch the protagonist meander about without their OIFs while talking to a volleyball. If the points are paid, then that’s that, and I agree its one of the “absolutes” in HERO. What is often unsaid is that it’s a game; things can change, points can be refunded or redistributed. But if you just fell out of a plane and miraculously survived by your parachute catching on a tree, and your stuff is scattered hither and yon, I mean.
 
Good luck finding it. That’s also why I like the idea of “fungible gear score.” That way the math heads have a mechanic they can lean on, while the players can still, you know. Pick things up. 
 
Another point I would make is that its important for players to realize that sometimes things are fungible; you pick up a rocket launcher, you fire the rocket, you fire the second rocket, invariably someone wants to take it with them and call it loot, at that point the GM should say “that’s heavy ordinance and isn’t supported by your current gear; you’d have to pitch something or acknowledge that it’s a giant paper weight.” That’s an all new rabbit hole, though. Sometimes the rocket launcher is there for a scene. And just that scene.
 
Thank you! I always strive to educate and entertain at the same time!

Well, it does depend on why the Character summoned them at that time, in the first place. 
 
Remember, even Slavishly Devoted Followers only have so many Tasks they can/will preform ( 1 per Ego of the caster) before leaving or maybe falling apart in the skeletons case, or turning to dust in the vampire's. 
 
So, for example, if the Necromancer has an Ego of 20 then each summoned being can/will preform 20 tasks before leaving. 
 
As per the rules, if the Necromancer had them just hanging around "on guard duty" then each day without combat counts as a Task. So if nothing happens for 20 days, then at the end of that all the skeletons would fall apart or wander off, because all their tasks are done. 
If 10 days in a big battle happens, then the skeletons would have 10 Tasks left, which equals 10 phases of combat (each phase of combat counts as one task) before falling apart or wandering off. 
 
Also, per the rules, the summoned beings do take up the actual space needed, so a 1000 skeletons would take up a 1000 hexes/squares and each hex/square is 2mx2m. So that is a lot of space needed for them, roughly the size of an NFL football field if my rough math is correct. And that is all of them just standing there, unmoving, and waiting. 
 
The smarter the beings (like the Vampires) the more detailed or complex the commands given to them can be. So the vampires could be given better commands then just "guard this area", but they still only have 20 Tasks they can preform before dying or going off on their own. So for example, with the Vampires, maybe the necromancer wants them to guard inside his tower (while the skeletons guard outside his tower) he can tell them the same thing, guard this tower and me. And the vampires would, but they would also need to sleep (so would need caskets, but those are easy to come by or make)  and have blood to feed on or they would grow weaker (this doesn't need to be human blood, could be animal blood. And they only need to feed once a week, so only twice in the max 20 days the necromancer would have them). But for the most part they are intelligent beings and can fend for themselves, not needing to be directly controlled or micro-managed. They would just hang out, follow the rules the necromancer set in place (don't feed on the other players), and if anything happened would fight to the death to protect the necromancer and the tower (with however remaining tasks they had in combat phases), and then turn to dust or take off on their own. 
 
So to sum up, if the necromancer, fearing attack, decides to summon a thousands skeletons and 16 vampires to protect him and his home, then all he would need to say to the skeletons is stand guard outside and fight anyone one that comes here. And then the skeletons would just stand outside, remaining still, until something approached and then they would swarm it, and any remaining skeletons would go back to just standing there and waiting, until their tasks ran out or something else came for them to fight. The vampires on the other hand, could be told the same thing, "Guard me and this building", and then they would do so, but they would be like normal guards or house guests, able to wander around, talk, hangout, read books, etc... they would sleep and feed when they need to, but otherwise be ready for an attack if/when it came, and if nothing happened after 20 days they would turn to dust or wander off to do their own thing.
 
So the big limiting factor is the EGO of the caster as that is how many Tasks the summoned beings will preform or if nothing happens how many days they will hang around, or some combo of both. But the summoned beings don't need to be micro-managed for simple tasks like "guard this area" and the smarter the summoned being is the more flexibility and decision making they can do on their own while following the command. 

Deep down, I like the idea of a Descent: Freespace meets MechWarrior vibe;
 
It’s after the war. Mankind has been busy rebuilding. Despite what we expected, we didn’t get bombed back to the Stone Age, but the deconstruction of super powers gave rise to new leadership, focused heavily on science and the technological advancements required to save our planet. The mechs started as more efficient excavation machines, drilling, moving earth, lifting heavy objects. That sort of thing. It wasn’t long, though, before patterns re-emerged. Market leaders were approached by new governments who wanted to “protect themselves” against non-existent threats; threats that arose because they armed. And here we are, again. That was 200 years ago.
 
Me? I’m a humble mechanic. Then one of my pilots got sprayed all over the inside of his machine by a microwave gun because his shielding wasn’t maintained right. A problem I had logged a half dozen times but was told “Hey, how often do they bring those things out? They’re not going to melt anybody.” Yeah...
 
So they cleaned out the cockpit and say “Jackie! You know this beast better than any of us!” I blinked and pointed out that doing VR sims based on current telemetry, while it’s fun to post high scores, is really a diagnostic tool so we can figure out what’s going to happen or what may have gone wrong or where repairs are needed by simulating stress on the machine. Nope. “Girl, you’ve got a hot hand and you can think on your feet.” I saw the first ones when they came down. The flash. Thought people were dropping bombs, but there were no planes, no radar signatures, it was all visual. Next thing we know, armored nightmares start crawling along the ground. We stood fast. Scanned, scanned again. Nothing came up, system choked like a bad sniper with the game winning goal in his glove. That was ten years ago.
 
This is my apocalypse.
 
Introduce the game as fighting for independence to avoid past mistakes, then ramp into alien invasion. The key for me in this setting is to keep the politics. Aliens arrived. Nothing changed except now we’re fighting a war on multiple fronts. 

If I had to guess... Two options.

One: It is a Buff. You cast Lightning Fist, and either the next Attack with a HTH attack inflicts the effect, or for the next Minute or so the effect will activate with HTH attacks.
Two: It's a specific Attack. You cast by attacking with Lightning Fist. You make a HTH attack, and the effect goes off.
In both, techincally all three of these cases, you would pay END for the second attack, and see if the Magic hits, but only if you hit them.

The base effect I would have as a Linked Power. You say he wants magic Light to go off? Then I'd say... Presuming it is a Flash attack.
 
Link up a flash attack to a HTH strike. Something like...
Lightning Flashing Fist: xd6 Flash attack. Linked Power: HTH Attack (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4),  No Range (-1/2)
That lets you literally Cast Fist with a flash.

If you are looking for it as a Minute long buff...
Lightning Flashing Fist: xd6 Flash attack, Time Limit: 1 Minuit (+3/4) Linked Power: HTH Attack (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4),  No Range (-1/2)
This cloaks the hand in a lightning or flashy aura, that they can activate for a Zero Phase action when they hit with a HTH attack.
 
If you are looking for a Single Use Buff
Lightning Flashing Fist: xd6 Flash Attack, Trigger: Punching someone (Half Phase to Reset, Zero Phase Activation +1/4), Linked Power: HTH Attack (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), No Range (-1/2)
That lets them spend a moment prepping themselves before they strike someone, and only lasts through the hit. It requires reupping it.
 
 
Those are the first ways that come to mind.

This is actually my point; I believe in this post, somewhere, I pointed out that it’s just as interesting if not more so to watch the protagonist meander about without their OIFs while talking to a volleyball. If the points are paid, then that’s that, and I agree its one of the “absolutes” in HERO. What is often unsaid is that it’s a game; things can change, points can be refunded or redistributed. But if you just fell out of a plane and miraculously survived by your parachute catching on a tree, and your stuff is scattered hither and yon, I mean.
 
Good luck finding it. That’s also why I like the idea of “fungible gear score.” That way the math heads have a mechanic they can lean on, while the players can still, you know. Pick things up. 
 
Another point I would make is that its important for players to realize that sometimes things are fungible; you pick up a rocket launcher, you fire the rocket, you fire the second rocket, invariably someone wants to take it with them and call it loot, at that point the GM should say “that’s heavy ordinance and isn’t supported by your current gear; you’d have to pitch something or acknowledge that it’s a giant paper weight.” That’s an all new rabbit hole, though. Sometimes the rocket launcher is there for a scene. And just that scene.
 
Thank you! I always strive to educate and entertain at the same time!

Which brings up a whole separate point, which is this:
 
Are we debating whether its possible, as a special effect (good news, it is) or,
Are we debating the very specific how because it’s an ongoing power use? Or.
Are we debating how many “car traits” you inherited in your transform. Or.
Are NONE of these things fully capturing the question?
 
In the first scenario, I’m fine with extra limbs and strength — exactly as I said in the beginning. If we’re really going into the more granular space of “how do I build seat belts and life support?” That’s almost a separate question, and the answer is exceptionally well documented, with harness being a thing included as part of a vehicles SFX. If this is a question of “how many angels can dance on my butt while I fly?” Depends on the type of angel and the amount of junk in that trunk. 
 
I’m all for a healthy debate, but I do want to ensure we’re answering the same question. That’s kind of important. I mean. To me.

I would like to point out the first thing I said was, “if the vehicle is properly defined and has sufficient strength.” You’re not the odd man out, I think this is a case of “HERO being HERO” and people wanting to micro things that I would — and this is a pretty good example — merrily handwave. “You’ve got strength 100? Yeah, by all means, carry all the people you can fit on your badonkadonk.”

This Halmades I like your late night ramblings!

This one!

I LOVE THIS ONE!!
 
Warning: I’m up a little late and when that happens I tend to ramble. So I’ve put my answer to your question up front, where it’s easy to see:
 
Answer 1: It actually doesn’t matter as long as you’re consistent. You’d be surprised how much punishment the HERO system can take and still put out a balanced game experience. To go back to @Ninja-Bear, it’s easiest to make all weapons free, because the cost was paid by the player when they invested in the Martial Art to use it. For example, Kusari-Gama. If I pick one of those up, I’m going to smash my own skull. Someone trained in it, however, is going to have the opposite experience. This is how I did it in Persona; you pay the points for what you want, you have the thing more as a manifestation of the point investment, rather than the other way around. If a bunch of points are paid for magic, great. Here’s your spell list based on the rules laid down for this system, etc.
 
Answer 2: There are a number of other things to consider before you can answer it. And based on the question, I’m making a couple of assumptions: That you’re doing some kind of high fantasy setting, that said setting involves the collection of gear and loot, and that said gear and loot is plentiful enough that it prompts the question. So if Kage, the Shadow Mage, doesn’t have 33 points available, he can’t pick up the enchanted hand crossbow? Or the bracers of archery? It’s downright skull breaking. So how else do you solve for it?
 
You can do this: Each character can soul-bind/befriend/attune (to use the 5th Ed D&D word) to X number of magical items. This is a campaign rule and costs zero points that the players can see, but you can see them. If you want to be hard and fast with it, you can give everyone their build cost in magical attunement. I build a 200 point Rogue, I can equip up to 200 points of magical gear. Or if you’re concerned, just, “gear.”  This can include spell books, spells as well as swords and shields. Going this route removes all of the messy player level book keeping from the equation, and leaves the GM free to run a game that plays like it should. 
 
Alternatively, each player may be limited to the Rule of 9; head, chest, arms, legs, two weapons, two rings and a necklace.
 
There’s no “canonical right way” to do it. In ... FH 5th Ed? Steve put forth the idea, as an option, gear is gold, magic is points. But that’s not always the case. And, more importantly, ignoring that is not necessarily going to create any kind of imbalance in your campaign. Your best bet, IMO, is to ignore this question entirely, and instead drill down to stat spread, skill selection, core powers/abilities, damage dealt, and damage that can be sustained, in addition to any other non-combat abilities that your casting classes are going to have. So let’s break down the reasoning:
 
In a traditional fantasy setting, there are three and a half core classes; Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard/Cleric. I say 3.5 because there’s a ton of campaigns and systems that just go with “magic” and that includes healing, there’s systems with all kinds of different ways to tap into other worldly... or natural but normally inaccessible... or... you get my point. The more critical question, in my mind, is not about point assignment or gold spent, but functionality and general balance. To that end, I would say that those three classes don’t really provide much framework. Whereas tank, blaster, scrapper, controller, etc., more traditional super heroic tropes, do the job much better.
 
The tank wears heavy armor, carries some variety of weaponry, has a shield. Do those cost points? Someone brought up: things paid with gold are fungible, things paid with points are not, however, there’s a counter to that, and that’s “everything has a point cost.” There’s a nasty rabbit hole you can fall down trying to reconcile the cost of a shield against gold against real cost in points to the character. Meanwhile, your casting classes have to spend points on their spells — unless you say they don’t. And you treat spells like equipment. Also an option. My late night rambling aside, here are my hard learned lessons from years of GMing Fantasy HERO:
 
1) Power level is, broadly, a lie. After a while it becomes nearly impossible to do a decent audit. I became much more interested in this question: Does everyone have roughly the same points invested in base stats and core skills? Do they all fall within the guidelines for CSLs, and are they utilizing the tools provided accordingly? Last, but not least, is their general DPR (damage per round) equivalent? A fighter who hits every round may not be as sexy as a Rogue with extra dice in Backstab, or a wizard who can throw chain lightning through an entire group, but that just means they’re doing their job. Standing up front, drawing fire, surviving, and dealing out punishment. The Rogue should be able to outpace the fighter in damage, because that’s the rogue’s job.
 
2) Damage output caps are critical. Decide early what your max number of KA dice is, AND your highest Active Point cost, and hold that line for a while as you continue to balance encounters and defenses. 
 
3) Remember: Defense wins championships. Unless you let someone buy an NND Killing Attack that’s disruptive, or the Wizard can call down oodles of Meteors every round. You don’t want that to happen, that gets gnarly.
 
4) This in a very looping way comes back to my point, and your question: when is it appropriate and how do you do it? My answer is “ignore the common application, and approach it differently.” We can math everything to death. Doesn’t mean we should.

Which brings up a whole separate point, which is this:
 
Are we debating whether its possible, as a special effect (good news, it is) or,
Are we debating the very specific how because it’s an ongoing power use? Or.
Are we debating how many “car traits” you inherited in your transform. Or.
Are NONE of these things fully capturing the question?
 
In the first scenario, I’m fine with extra limbs and strength — exactly as I said in the beginning. If we’re really going into the more granular space of “how do I build seat belts and life support?” That’s almost a separate question, and the answer is exceptionally well documented, with harness being a thing included as part of a vehicles SFX. If this is a question of “how many angels can dance on my butt while I fly?” Depends on the type of angel and the amount of junk in that trunk. 
 
I’m all for a healthy debate, but I do want to ensure we’re answering the same question. That’s kind of important. I mean. To me.