Deadman

Heroic Action Points (HAP) Okay I give. Both Neil and Surrealone mentioned using Heroic Action Points and I have to say that I can't think of anything much more cinematic than that. It will allow for major characters to somewhat change an otherwise catastrophic event and survive it. On the other hand I do like a somewhat gritty feel to an adventure and allowing too many modifications could remove that. For that reason I would do several things: I would lower the roll from the 2d6 suggested in 6Ev2 pg. 287 to only 1d6. I would say that the GM may add HAP during the course of the game for Heroic, Creative, and/or Dramatic acts on the part of the player. I would say that the HAPs a character has are unknown to the Player. They are rolled once per adventure by the GM. I would say that HAPs can affect almost ANY dice roll even those performed by others but this does depend on what die roll is being altered. Skill, Characteristic, Perception, To-Hit and Hit Location rolls are 1 for 1. Normal Damage attacks are 1 HAP per STUN (adding 3 STUN will automatically add 1 BODY) or 2 HAP per BODY (no STUN adjustment). Killing Attacks are 3 HAP per BODY or 3 HAP to raise the Stun Multiplier by +1. Other Attack modifications will based on a 1 HAP per 5 AP of the attack. If a character spends HAP on something but doesn't have enough for the desired effect the points are still used. They just don't adjust the roll enough to have the effect the Player wished. Players may spend HAP to achieve Lucky Breaks (described in Luck below). The cost is left for the GM to decide. In an attack situation the defender gets the last say on HAP expenditures. Just in case a bidding war starts. HAP Example: Hair Trigger is facing off against El Azteca's Lieutenant, El Escorpion and a couple of his cartel soldiers. She is pinned down behind a short wall taking automatic fire. Suddenly the shots stop and El Escorpion leaps the wall looking to surprise our Heroine. The GM gives her a perception roll to hear him coming (he misses his Stealth roll of 12- by 1 but uses a HAP point to make it). Her hearing Perception roll is 12- and she rolls a 13 (1 short of hearing the stealthy El Escorpion). Her Player decides to use a HAP point to improve her Perception roll by one to make the roll. She is not surprised when El Escorpion leaps over and they have to roll to see who can get the first shot off. They each make a DEX roll which El Escorpion wins (neither spends any HAP points to increase it). El Escorpion fires two shots at Hair Trigger using Multiple Attack (he has Rapid Attack) and is aiming for a Head Shot (this is a -4 OCV but nullified by his PSLs). His total OCV for the attack is 8 (10-2 for Multiple Attack) and he rolls to hit. He gets an 11 on the first attack and a 14 on the second. Hair Trigger (DCV 6) is hit by the first (by 2) and is just missed by the second. El Escorpion decides to use a HAP to lower his second roll to 13 to hit Hair Trigger (the nerve!!!). Hair Trigger's player says that he will also spend a HAP to keep it a miss (El Escorpion can't spend more to raise it again as Hair Trigger is the defender). The Hit location roll for a Head Shot is 1d6+2 and El Escorpion rolls a 5...(uh oh...our Heroine just got hit in the Head!). Hair Trigger's player figures that she might be running out but tries to spend a HAP point to change the Hit Location roll to a 6 hitting her in the hand instead. She has enough and El Escorpion rolls damage getting 4 BODY and 8 STUN in the Left Hand (hitting the hand is 1/2 BODY and the -x1 STUN Multiplier is offset by the Hollow Point bullet's +x1). After her Combat Luck she takes 1 BODY, 0 STUN unfortunately she misses her DEX roll and drops the pistol that was in that hand. Hair Trigger returns fire with the pistol in her right hand, shooting El Escorpion twice with her Quick Fire (Autofire 2 shots for pistols). Her OCV is 10 and she cannot use targeting. She rolls a 9 and hits El Escorpion (DCV 4 since he use Multiple Attack) both times. She rolls a 9 and a 13 for Hit Location hitting him in the Shoulder and the Groin. The Raw Damage is 5 BODY, 15 STUN from the first hit and 6 BODY 24 STUN from the second (Hollow Point bullets +x1 Stun Multiplier). El Escorpion takes the first shot but worrying about the second elects to use 2 HAP points to change the location to 11 in the Chest where he is protected by his Jacket. Unfortunately El Escorpion is out of HAPs and takes the shot to the Groin. This means that the Stun Multiplier is +x1 and he takes 6 BODY, 30 STUN from the attack. He ends up taking no damage from the first attack (Combat Luck and Armored Jacket) but takes 3 BODY, 19 STUN from the second Stunning him. Hmmm...what is a good Vigilante to do? Thoughts, Comments? T

Here are a few more that have been brought down to 225 Points. Many of these don't have Backgrounds and such. Barracuda Edge Orion Purgatory Slash Talion The Shield Commando

Here are some of the characters that could be used as starting PCs in my campaign. Originals Hair Trigger (with background, etc.) Stone Ace Tracer Hero System 6eV2 The Verdict Alena Drake Libra Sarge Blade Hammer Knockout Shadow

This is an absolutely awesome breakdown. I may stea...er...borrow this for my games. Just to clarify I don't do an extremely low powered game. If and when I start my DC game back up it will be at the Powerful Heroic level (225 starting points). I consider it a very "cinematic" game. What this means is that the PCs should have little problem dispatching little gangsters or cannon fodder types. Though they still need to be wary of guns in general and understand that one lucky shot from one of those mooks could end it all. This generally means that they have to be smart about it. Now when they are going up against a higher powered villain, like Lieutenant level they really need to watch it because they will have the same capabilities that the PCs possess. Here is a typical character from my game. Her name is Hair Trigger and she is at starting level. By your breakdown she would be a Natural/Veteran. Hair Trigger

Here is what I am suggesting...but, as always, do what fits your game. Autofire Attack Range Penalties are Doubled unless the weapon is mounted or Braced. In my game I use the Optional Range Modifiers so the doubling doesn't begin until 9m. Normal penalties are (0-8m:0, 9-12m: -1, 13-16m: -2, 17-24m:-3, 25-32m:-4, 33-48m:-5, 49-64m:-6, etc.). This is what is doubled. Further shots hit based on single attack roll for every 1 less than required (adjusted from the +1 hit/2 in the RAW). If shooter is untrained (no Weapon Familiarity) the first shot takes no penalty (other than the untrained modifier of -2 OCV) but the further shots only hit at a rate of 1 per (# of Total shots fired). Multiple Attack Range Penalties are Doubled as autofire above. All shots suffer a -1 OCV for each extra shot fired (adjusted from the -2/additional shot in the RAW). Number of Multiple attacks is limited by Weapon Type (Semi-Auto: 4, Double Action Revolver: 2, Knife or Barehanded: 4, Shortsword: 3, Longsword: 2 ). This may be further adjusted if character is close to STR Minimum of the gun/weapon. Additionally most scopes and such are created with the Limitation (Must Set or Brace to use: -1/2) or (Must Set and Brace to use: -1). I do not apply any other modifiers but may add some maneuvers like the Quick Fire maneuver I previously posted. T

Here is what the 6e Martial Arts book has to say on the subject... “Mixed Martial Arts,” or MMA, is a term used in the Martial World for a type of full-contact fighting, and the training associated with it. This form of martial arts contest became particularly popular thanks to the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) competition, which begun in 1993. MMA training emphasizes three areas. The first is groundwork — fighting on the ground. Royce Gracia’s victories in the first, second, and fourth UFCs (which were single-elimination tournaments) showed how important this aspect of combat is. The second is clinchwork — throws, takedowns, and striking an opponent while grabbing him. Last is stand-up work — punching, kicking, and other strikes and maneuvers performed while standing up. MMA isn’t alone in the world of full-contact fighting. For example, Vale Tudo (“anything goes”) is a similar form of fighting competition in Brazil. It began as “taking on all challengers” fights in Brazilian circuses in the 1920s and remains a popular sport today. In HERO System terms, if you want to build an MMA-style fighter, you should buy a variety of Martial Maneuvers and Skills from the following styles: Boxing; Jujutsu (especially the Brazilian Jujutsu substyle); Karate; Muay Thai; and Wrestling.

Oooo...I like that. Perhaps implementing the -1 OCV per shot after the first might not be a bad idea. Though I would adjudicate that it only impacts how many times they can hit the target. This means that if an untrained person were to fire a three round burst the first round isn't impacted but they only hit once additional for every three points they hit by. That is unless the character has the proper Weapon Familiarity (this also works for things like Thrown Blades, etc.). I think that a WF: Assault Rifles, Submachine Guns or the like would work to negate the penalty (as would WF: Small Arms since it includes the former). This means that no characters would really be impacted and it could be thrown in immediately. This really does give more of a Hollywood feel. Think about a person unfamiliar with a submachine gun picking it up for the first time. I can just see the shots going everywhere. Nice suggestion Surrealone.

Alright on to the next topic Recoil... This should be relatively short since I think that the STR Minimum combined with the modifiers for certain maneuvers accounts for recoil enough to be at least passably realistic. Recoil Recoil represents the tendency for a weapon's muzzle to rise when shot. Here is the description directly from 5e Dark Champions... "Thanks to the physical law of action and reaction, guns, particularly ones fired on full automatic, have a tendency to recoil violently and to “ride up” — i.e., jerk upward when fired, thus throwing off the shooter’s aim for shots aft er the first. The HERO System rules don’t specifically account for recoil when guns are fired. In “realistic” Dark Champions games, the GM may want to do so by adopting the following rules:" One of the rules given attaches a pretty severe OCV penalty when Autofiring, something that I don't think is really necessary. In fact we have made it easier to hit with Autofire in previous posts. My personal take is that the STR Minimum is what primarily defines the recoil. If a character doesn't meet the STR Minimum for the weapon he begins to accrue OCV penalties (per the RAW). This, in my estimation, along with the penalties for Multi-Attacking serve to represent recoil well enough. Recoil compensators would actually be a function of bringing down the STR Minimum. They would be bought as STR with Focus, Only To Meet STR Minimum (-1 at least) and other limitations. Just to refresh everyone the RAW say that for each 5 points (or fraction thereof) a person is short of the STR Minimum he suffers -1 OCV and -1 Damage Class on the attack. One caveat that I think I would impose with Firearms is to remove the Damage Class penalty and make the OCV penalty -1 OCV per 3 points the Character's STR is short of the STR Minimum. This means if Helen (STR: 5) picks up a .44 Magnum Colt Anaconda she would be 6 points under the STR Minimum of 11 and be at -2 OCV to use it. Of course she can use two hands and lower the STR Minimum of the Weapon by 3 and Brace to lower it by another 5 then she would be able to fire it without penalty. Thoughts? Input?

What you say is very accurate and I would agree that some penalty would definitely be in order. In my estimation it would be related to how obtuse the angle. For example a squared shot (straight 90 degree angle) would receive fewer penalties than say a shot from 150 degrees. Perhaps a somewhat subjective -1 to -3 penalty. It may be better stated to say that a -1 per 45 degree differential. This means that our shooter in my example who may have been shooting from a 15 degree horizontal differential and an 18 degree vertical differential would add to 33 degrees and therefore correspond to a -1 OCV penalty. Again, this is somewhat arbitrary and up to the GM. That said, I find it very realistic and it would gladly implement it. Well Neil, I don't know you personally but I would speculate that you wouldn't have a 20 STR Having done demolition on homes and such I can tell you that if I am using a 16 pound sledge on drywall, you do not want to be on the other side of it. Keep in mind that the range of a HTH attack is limited anyway so the target would have to be in close proximity to the barrier. I am not suggesting that Lt. Burroughs would have traveled very far beyond the door, even a meter would probably be out of range. This was meant more for someone right on the other side of the barrier...at least for HTH weapons. As with all of my posts, they are just suggestions. They are oddball ideas that I come up with that I do want to socialize to see how others feel. If I ever have the chance I will incorporate some or all of them in a game to see how they work. If I do I will share the outcome.

Blowthrough and "Barrier" Defense The 5e Dark Champions Book defines Blowthrough as follows: “Blowthrough” is a gun user’s term for the ability of a bullet to penetrate some barriers or targets and keep traveling with relatively little loss of energy. While I do think this is a good rule in general since there are some "Barriers" which do not provide much defense versus bullets (or other Killing Attacks). The 6e rules, as far as I can tell, do not address this. Instead they introduce the idea of some items not having Resistant Defenses. Substances like Glass provide no Resistant Defense and are therefore very easy for Killing Attacks to penetrate. Some semblance of reality is buried in between the two somewhere. Without completely overhauling the "Breaking Things" system in the game it would be somewhat difficult to replicate. So while I don't want to overhaul it, the "Breaking Things" table could do with some additions. In my opinion this would do away with the need for the Blowthrough ruling and allow us to use traditional rules...Well sort of. I think we need to look at how the protection is calculated with a Barrier . Way back in 3rd Edition if you were hitting someone on the other side of a "Force Wall" you had to take down the barrier first. This involved subtracting the dice by the highest rolls first. In my opinion this unfairly gives the character more defense than he should get since you subtract out all of the sixes rolled, then all the fives and so on (when using a regular attack). Instead I would suggest using Standard Effect for what is removed. See my examples below on how this would all play out. This table more throroughly breaks down many modern building materials. Breaking Things Clarifications (Dark Champions) Material or Object PD ED BODY Notes Doors Interior (Hollow Core) 1+(2) 2 2 Two wood or laminate panels with cardboard spacers. Interior (Solid Core) 2 2 3 Two wood or laminate panels with chipboard filling. Interior (Solid Wood) 3 3 3 Solid Pine (or other light wood) door Exterior (Steel Panel) 4 4 3 Thin Steel panels with foam/wood insulation Exterior (Fiberglass) 3 4 3 Fiberglass panels with foam/wood insulation Glass Single Pane Window (1) 1 1 Standard Window (non-impact rated) Double Pane Window (2) 2 1 Newer Insulated Windows (non-impact rated) Thick Single Pane 1+(1) 2 1 Such as Standard Sliding Glass Door Tempered Glass 1+(2) 2 1 Safety glass (i.e. Automobile windows, newer Sliding Glass doors) Thin Laminated Glass 2+(2) 3 2 Impact resistant such as newer Store Windows Bulletproof Glass 6-9 6-9 3 Depends on UL 752 Level rating Aluminum oxynitride 10 10 4 UL 752 Level 10 Walls Indoor (Plaster) 3 3 3 Standard lathe and plaster wall (Frame: Activation 8-) Indoor (Drywall) 1+(2) 3 2 Standard drywall construction (Frame: Activation 8-) Indoor (Frame) 5 4 4 2x4 or Aluminum construction Outdoor (Stucco) 4 6 3 Plywood/Stucco construction Outdoor (Alum. Siding) 4 7 4 Plywood with Aluminum Siding Outdoor (Vinyl Siding) 4 6 4 Plywood with Vinyl Siding Outdoor (Wood) 5 4 4 Plywood and or all wood construction Outdoor (Concrete) 6 10 5 Standard commercial construction Items in Parenthesis () are NonResistant Example 1: Bash is chasing Lt. Burroughs through a house with a baseball bat. Lt. Burroughs runs through a bedroom door and slams it shut. Bash decides to smash through the door attacking Lt. Burroughs on the other side. The GM decides that because he can't see him Bash attacks at 1/2 OCV. Lt. Burroughs has a 5 DCV and Bash has a (4+2)/2=3 OCV. Bash rolls a 7 on 3d6 and has successfully hits Lt. Burroughs in the left shoulder. Bash rolls his damage of 7d6 (20 STR + 3d6) and gets (6,6,5,3,3,2,1) 26 STUN and 8 BODY. The door takes a total of 5 BODY to smash through and with Standard Effect removes 15 STUN from the Normal Damage attack. Lt. Burroughs applies 3 BODY and 11 STUN to his personal defense (4 PD) resulting in 0 BODY and 7 STUN, a glancing blow...whew! That could have been much worse... Example 2: Barracuda is armed with a .45 Mac10 with ball ammunition (remember +1 STUN Multiple) and is carefully proceeding through a house that he saw two of Buckshot's men run into. As he makes his way through he hears the slide rack on a pistol on the other side of the wall. He opens up on the sound with a 5 round burst. He gets 1/2 his OCV (6+2)/2=4 vs. the thug on the other side of the wall who is DCV 3. Barracuda's player rolls a 10 and hits the thug three times (we are using the optional Autofire rule which dictates that for every 1 point an Autofire attack hits by another round finds its mark). Barracuda's player rolls three 1d6+1 rolls against the standard hit location resulting in hits in the Right Shoulder 6 BODY x3 Multiple, Chest 3 BODY x2 Multiple, and Groin 4 BODY x3 Multiple. The wall is standard Drywall and has 1 resistant PD and 2 BODY. The thug has no resistant defense and ends up taking 3 BODY 9 STUN from the first bullet, nothing from the second and 1 BODY 3 STUN from the third resulting in 4 BODY and 12 STUN. He's hurt but not out of it and returns fire through the wall with his Glock 17... Example 3: Crosshair has been given an assassination mission and has taken up a position across from an abandoned house where Freddy Howarth, his target, is hiding out. He is using a .30-06 rifle with Ball Ammunition (2d6+d2) a long arm laser sight and a x9 Scope affording him +2 OCV and +14 Range Mod. When his target comes into view through the window he Braces (+2 RMod) and Sets (+1 OCV) and squeezes off a shot at Freddy's head. Freddy is unaware of the attack and is 1/2 DCV 4/2=2 and Hit Location modifiers are halved (Head=-8/2=-4). Crosshair is 6 OCV + 2 CSLs + 1 (Set Maneuver)=9 OCV. He needs a 14- to hit his target (the Range levels more than offset the Range Modifier) and rolls an 11. Freddy is on the other side of a double paned window. Crosshair rolls 9 BODY on the attack and x5 STUN Multiplier 2(roll)+2(head)+1(caliber). The window has no resistant defense and 1 BODY resulting in 9-1(Glass BODY)x2(head shot)=16 BODY and 16x5=80 STUN). Poor Freddy... Thoughts? Input?

The write-up does say that you can use EGO as a complimentary roll. However there is a difference between Willpower and Courage. If you were hurt and needed to overcome that to act I would say that is Willpower. Courage, on the other hand, is a function of Presence so that is why the roll is based on it. From Hero System 6Ev1 pg. 45 Presence represents the character’s forcefulness, charisma, bravery, confidence, bearing, and leadership qualities — in short, his impressiveness.

Grace Under Fire This represents a Character's ability to go through with actions which place his life in danger. The full write-up is in Dark Champions pg. 193. One of the abilities encompassed by Presence is courage and that is what this Optional Rule represents. I would suggest that it be optional for PCs but villains should use it when appropriate. Here is the table as amended by me. Grace Under Fire Table PRE Roll Result Made by 5+ Character may perform his declared Action and gains a bonus of +2 to all rolls involved (including Attack Rolls) Made by 2-4 Character may perform his declared Action and gains a bonus of +1 to all rolls involved (including Made by 0-1 Character may perform his declared Action Failed by 1-2 Character may perform his declared Action, but he suffers a penalty of -1 to all rolls involved (including Attack Rolls) Failed by 3-4 Character hesitates and loses a Half Phase. If it’s still possible for him to perform his declared Action, he may do so, but he suffers a penalty of -2 (or more) to all rolls involved (including Attack Rolls). If he prefers, he may change to some other Action that he can perform in a Half Phase, provided that other Action is defensive or otherwise diminishes the danger or anxiety that caused him to hesitate. Failed by 5+ Character is paralyzed with fear, hesitation, doubt, or the like. He loses a full Phase, may take no Actions and is at half DCV. Alternately, he may panic, taking action that’s detrimental to himself or his side in the fight (e.g. accidentally shoot an ally, block the path of escape, knock something over and start a fire) PRE Roll Modifier Circumstance +1 or more Outcome of Action is crucial (will help save the city, or the like) +1 or more Action will help to save/protect character’s loved ones from danger +1 to +3 Action agrees with one of character’s Psychological Complications (+1 for Moderate, +2 for Strong, +3 for Total) -1 to -3 Action contradicts one of character’s Psychological Complications (-1 for Moderate, -2 for Strong, -3 for Total) -1 or more Danger to character is extreme Thoughts? T

Here is what I came up with. I also decided to base the STUN Multiplier strictly on the 1d3 per the RAW. This gives a shot that hits the head a range of x3-x5 which seems pretty correct to me I don't think that this will really mess up things and since I use MapTool to run my Online Games it is pretty easy to put in a Macro. If you are running Face to Face it may be a bit more difficult but the "realism" may be worth it. I have also decided that if a character takes all of his BODY in a single attack in the Head or Chest he is Dead. The GM could wave this for PCs and principal villains but for others it should stick (though many GMs just say that if Mooks take all of their BODY they are dead). Modified Hit Location Table 3d6 Roll Location STUNx N STUN *BODYx To Hit Instant Kill? 3 Neck +x2 +1 x2 -8 OCV Yes 4 Face +x2 +1 x2 Yes 5 Head +x2 +1 x2 Yes 6 Hands -x2 -1 x½ -6 OCV No 7 Forearms -x1 -1 x½ -5 OCV No 8 Upper Arms -x1 -1 x½ No 9 Shoulders 0 0 x1 -5 OCV No 10 Chest 0 0 x1 -3 OCV Yes 11 Chest 0 0 x1 Yes 12 Stomach +x1 +1 x1 -7 OCV No 13 Groin +x1 +1 x1 -8 OCV No 14 Thighs 0 0 x1 -4 OCV No 15 Lower Legs -x1 0 x½ -6 OCV No 16 Knees -x1 0 x½ No 17 Ankles -x1 -1 x½ -8 OCV No 18 Feet -x2 -1 x½ No If necessary, roll 1d6 to determine left or right side (hands, arms, shoulders, thighs, legs, feet). If you roll a 1, 2, or 3, the left side is hit; if you roll a 4, 5, or 6, the right side is hit. *BODY Multipler occurs AFTER Defenses have been applied. Let me know what you think. T

Thanks for your input Neil, it helps having someone to bounce this stuff off of. Agreed but my percentage would be lower...say 65% of the time it works okay. I am inclined to give a bonus to the Stun Multiplier just to give it some leeway. A +2 to the Stun Multiplier on the Head would illicit a range of x3-x5 in standard games and x3-x6 in mine so that feels about right to me. I like your idea of making a helmet the same as Hard Armor for this purpose. In the case of the Stomach and Groin (I don't use Vitals since I feel that is ambiguous) I would be inclined to give it a +1 to the Stun Multiplier similar to the Head above. I agree, though I will say that you don't often see people knocked out by shots to extremities (even in the movies). I would say to use the Disabling/Impairing rules for extremities especially. Here I would apply a -1 Stun Multiplier for a range of x1-x2 for standard games and x1-x3 for mine. That gives it some difference but does skew it toward the lower end (as a 1 or a 2 on the die would result in a 1). Disabling/Impairing would be a way to really address this in my opinion. In my games you cannot Die instantly from shots to Extremities (though you can bleed out). If you use multiples for them then I would agree. If I were to use a set modifier I would apply it before defenses. I can see the benefit of that but then I think you would have many more people getting knocked out by hand/feet shots. I will put together a table of my suggestions and we'll see how it works. At some point I am going to have to get a group together to playtest this stuff. Let me know who is interested. Regards, T

Hit Locations The RAW Hit Location tables work pretty well in most cases. In my opinion they just need to be better defined and perhaps the damage could be adjusted. Here is the current RAW Hit Location Table. Hit Location Table 3d6 Roll Location STUNx N STUN BODYx To Hit 3-5 Head x5 x2 x2 -8 OCV 6 Hands x1 x½ x½ -6 OCV 7-8 Arms x2 x½ x½ -5 OCV 9 Shoulders x3 x1 x1 -5 OCV 10-11 Chest x3 x1 x1 -3 OCV 12 Stomach x4 x1½ x1 -7 OCV 13 Vitals x4 x1½ x2 -8 OCV 14 Thighs x2 x1 x1 -4 OCV 15-16 Legs x2 x½ x½ -6 OCV 17-18 Feet X1 x½ x½ -8 OCV If necessary, roll 1d6 to determine left or right side (hands, arms, shoulders, thighs, legs, feet). If you roll a 1, 2, or 3, the left side is hit; if you roll a 4, 5, or 6, the right side is hit. My personal opinion is that the STUNx, N STUN and BODYx are a bit too severe. I think of STUN as the pain that one endures until they fall unconscious and to always assign a x5 to the Head and a x1 to the Hands seems unrealistic somehow. I personally have replaced the old 1d6-1 and the new 1d3 STUN Multiplier with 1d4 in my Heroic games. In the past I have assigned a STUN Multiplier Modifier to the area. For example if someone were hit in the Head the attacker would still roll 1d4 but would add 1 to the roll giving a range of x2-x5. Is that too lenient? Should it be +2? Should it have a cap of the most that can be rolled on a die? For example it could be made +2 but would still cap at x4 giving it a range of x3-x4. Would buying up the STUN Multiplier add to this cap? As for N STUN and BODY I think that they are also too severe but at the same time I can see the logic. As I said in a post previously a .22lr round should be able to kill someone with just a single shot. Given that I have assigned a 1d4 killing attack to the round this isn't normally possible. Should I keep the x2? Or should it be given some other modifier? For N Stun I have normally just given a +1 STUN per DC to the roll for the Head, Stomach and Groin and a -1 STUN per DC to the Arms, Hands and Feet. If I keep the Modifiers for N STUN and BODY should this damage be Before or After Defenses? I know I am asking a bunch of questions but I would like the opinion of the gallery (well all 2 or 3 people that are reading it anyway) before I make a decision. T

I think this is a good time to summarize what we have discussed thus far. All of the options are designed to add a bit of realism (tongue in cheek) while keeping with the cinematic feel of a roleplaying game firefight. I have modified some of the entries from their original presentation based on comments and my own thoughts. Disclaimer: I am not mandating nor even suggesting that any of these ideas be used in your game. I am merely presenting my opinion and ideas for your consideration and as possible seeds for changes you may want to incorporate. Use them at entirely at your discretion. I will not be held liable for any fallout that arises from the use or abuse of any of these ideas. If you plan to play in one of my games in the future (provided I overcome my current blah attitude toward GMing) understand that I reserve the right to incorporate some or all of these rules into that game. Your agreement to participate in said game is your binding word not to whine, complain or otherwise try to dissuade me from my set course of action. Muzzle Energy Based Damage - Base Damage is directly linked to Muzzle Energy (in Joules)of Round. This is subject to be altered based on Shape of the Round, Composition of Round (material) and/or Characteristics of the Round Firearms Damage DC Joules Example Kdamage 1 50 Pellet Gun 1 pip 2 100 .22 Long Rifle 1/2d6 3 200 .380 ACP 1d6 4 400 9mm, .45 ACP 1d6+1 5 800 .357 Magnum 1 1/2d6 6 1600 .44 Magnum, 5.56mm 2d6 7 3200 7.62 2d6+1 8 6400 .458 Win Magnum 2 1/2d6 9 12500 .50 BMG 3d6 Killing Damage Intricacies - Breaks down incremental damage between Damage Classes for increased diversity of damage. Killing Damage Breakout Points Kdamage Range 5 1 1 6 1 1 7 1 1 8 1d2 1-2 9 1d2 1-2 10 1d3 1-3 11 1d3 1-3 12 1d3 1-3 13 1d4 1-4 14 1d6-1 0-5 15 1d6 1-6 Armor Piercing Optional Use - Armor Piercing does not reduce the defense to half its value. Instead it pierces through an amount of defense equal to the BODY damage rolled on the attack for a +1/2 Advantage. Semi Armor Piercing is thus 1/2 of the BODY damage rolled on the attack for a +1/4 Advantage. This can be made Standard Effect and therefore pierce through an amount of defense equal to the Damage Class of the attack at the Player/GM's option. Pistol vs. Rifle Rounds - Rifle rounds act as Semi Armor Piercing vs. Soft Body Armor by default. This is a characteristic of the Real Armor Limitation and does not qualify for an additional Limitation. Body Armor - All Body Armor will use Sectional Coverage Rules based on the area that is armored. Additionally the Requires a Roll Limitation will be used to define the amount of that body part covered. Soft Body Armor will follow the write-ups in the RAW with the addition of the definition above with regard to Rifle Rounds. Hard Body Armor will be constructed using the rules for Barrier. This will mean that if a round does not penetrate no STUN damage will carry through. A sample write-up follows Trauma Plates - Level IV Ceramic: Barrier 8 PD/8 ED, 2 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1/2m thick), Personal Defense (+0), Hardened (+1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Sectional Defenses (Covers Locations 10-12; 36.57%) (-1), OIF (-1/2), Ablative BODY Only (-1/2), Requires A Roll (11- roll; -1/2), Half Mass (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) 14 Real Cost Autofire Optional Use - Autofire is amended so that 1 additional shot will Hit the target for each point that the shot hits by. This will also affect the cost of Autofire as follows: 2 Shots - +1/4 Advantage, 3 Shots - +1/2 Advantage, 5 Shots - +3/4 Advantage, Each doubling of Shots is a +1/2 additional Advantage. When firing more than one shot the Range Modifier is doubled if the weapon is not mounted. Multiple Attack Optional Use - Multiple Attacks will be done at a -1 OCV per shot after the first instead of the -2 in the RAW. Range Modifiers are doubled as with Autofire above. The number of Multiple attacks allowed is limited by weapon type (i.e. Revolvers - 2, Low Caliber Semi-Automatic - 4, High Caliber Semi-Automatic - 3, etc.). Additionally each attack is performed individually, so while in the RAW if you miss the first shot you miss the rest, this will not be the case with this option. That is what we have covered so far. Your mileage may vary, use at your own risk. Next up: Hit Locations, Grace Under Fire, Blowthough and Knockdown... T

LOL the facetious side of me would say..."bah, players! The bane to all of my wonderful plans." On the other side, wait....I don't really have another side Seriously, most of the things that I have presented are not technically of my own creation (in spite of me thinking they were when I typed them here). They are scattered about the books in optional rules sections. Interestingly most of them are presented as ways of increasing realism I am all about making a game fun but if I am the one running it I have this ridiculous need for it to make some sense to me. I am also an unapologetic tweaker when it comes to the RAW. You know this, you have played in one of my games. I don't think too many of my tweaks get in the way of having a good time but I could be wrong. At any rate I suppose I should have posted a disclaimer on my first post. I am not mandating nor even suggesting that any of my ideas be used in your game. I am merely presenting my opinion and ideas for your consideration and as possible seeds for changes you may want to incorporate. Use them at entirely at your discretion. I will not be held liable for any fallout that arises from the use or abuse of any of these ideas. If you plan to play in one of my games in the future (provided I overcome my current blah attitude toward GMing) understand that I reserve the right to incorporate some or all of these rules into that game. Your agreement to participate in said game is your binding word not to whine, complain or otherwise try to dissuade me from my set course of action. T

Ya, my mistake you're chill. And? If I am the GM and I choose to adopt the changes then I guess I know what I am in for.

Dude, chill...it was a statement not an accusation. As we all mentioned before, missing a lot ain't fun. Frankly I am just trying to work within the system to address some of the perceived inadequacies. Ultimately it probably isn't worth fixing since it works okay as it stands but if I can help someone improve their game why not try? I am not proposing that any or all of what I put out there is used in any way shape or form. I am just throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. My solution actually addresses the issue you presented and helps with what RDU Neil is trying to do (get the characters to put shots down range). I would probably suggest using a 10- Basic targeting breakpoint to begin with as well. This would skew things a bit from the "you are supposed to hit" mentality to a more even outlook. Even I know that there is no perfect way to simulate reality in a roleplaying game. As a GM I am generally looking for a certain "feel" in a game and I am not afraid to adjust the rules to get as close to that "feel" as I can. Oftentimes, as you can undoubtedly attest, it is an ongoing series of adjustments. I personally don't see the complexity you're speaking of. I feel that the solutions that I have presented are no more complex than the original rules, just different.

I guess this is an example of Reality not making for very good gameplay. If the rate that you cite is to be taken into a game you would start with a ~7- chance to hit in a gunfight if the target is returning fire and ~9- if they are not Honestly the hit probability only goes up because you are firing more rounds. For example if you have a 50% chance of one shot hitting and this is constant across multiple shots and you fire three shots you have a 92% chance of at least one of those shots hitting given the cumulative probability. Now this doesn't play out well in the Hero System because the chances to hit are severely lessened by the -2 OCV per attack modifier on Multiple Attack. Let us take a combatant that has a base 11- chance of hitting if he fires one shot. That is 62.5%, not bad. If he instead decides to fire three shots (taking a -4 OCV) he ends up with a about a 41% chance of one of those shots hitting (not great). So what if we change up Multiple Attack a bit? What if we changed the OCV Modifier to only a -1 per additional shot? Well then our combatant has the same 62.5% chance to hit the target with one shot but a better (75.6%) chance to hit with at least one of those three shots. If this is done I would suggest the individual skills that offset the penalties become more expensive (say 20 points for Rapid Attack or Defensive Attack). I do think that the native penalties for the Maneuver are still sufficient to balance it in most cases. Incorporating the -1 per additional shot for Multiple Attack along with altering Autofire to hit once per point over the target's DCV would definitely encourage more shots down range. I encourage everyone to take a look at the Gunfighting section of Dark Champions 5e pg. 192. It gives a lot of good suggestions to make Gunfights more realistic (incidentally both of the options that I mentioned, Autofire and Multiple Attack, are mentioned in there under the Storm of Lead heading). I especially like the section on "Grace Under Fire" pg. 193. This would go a long way to formalizing the "Adrenaline Rush" aspect of combat. Of course it is yet another roll that must be made. T

Here is one resurrected back from Enemies 1...Frizbe A few more from Classic Enemies, Green Dragon, Thunder and Lightning. And another favorite from CLOWN...Beuford The Bard

Wow, total Buzzkill Surrealone . Take realism tongue in cheek. I still want the game to be fun. I want the PCs to be scared of guns generally. That keeps them from thinking that they can take on a proverbial army. However if they are only hitting once every 4 shots that takes combat from a crawl to a near stop. I do agree with Neil that having more shots fired is fun because you introduce the dynamic of changing magazines and such. On the other hand if they miss too much combat gets very frustrating. Perhaps introducing a damage increase for more shots without penalizing OCV would be a good way to encourage more shots downrange. For example if a PC is firing at a mook that he wants to ensure is taken out he says I will use three shots at him and give him a bonus of +2DC to the attack making it a 2d6 attack rather than the 1d6+1 it would normally be. Kind of like Boostable charges in the RAW. The caveat being that you take a -1 DCV per shot fired after the first. Thoughts on that? You could also allow them to Rapid Fire it and really get them expending those rounds. Maneuver OCV DCV Damage/Effect Quickfire -0 -1/Additional Shot +1DC/Additional Shot Fired (Max: 3)

Well all things being equal and given that you have a normal person (3 OCV) that has at least some knowledge with the weapon they're using (Weapon Familiarity) they will hit another normal person (who is actively evading; DCV 3) 62.5% of the time. That isn't bad odds in my book. If you are talking about a Professional Soldier or Police Officer they will probably have at least one skill level and most probably a higher OCV (4 maybe?). That increases their odds to nearly 84%. Add an optic (A Red Dot sight is listed as +2 OCV and +10 vs. Range) and you are looking at 95% accuracy out to 250 meters (perhaps a bit of a stretch). This also means that even by the RAW he will hit with all three shots of a 3 round burst 62.5% of the time. As you get higher up the scale Heroes (and Villains) will inevitably have higher OCVs and DCVs which represents the cinematic part. All said and done I think it is at least feasible. Now my take on the range issue... You really don't want to be too close with a gun. Within a meter can be bad news as the target can step in nullifying the weapon. The sweet spot is 2-4 meters as the shooter has enough time to pull the trigger before the target can close the distance. Obviously this doesn't take into account the target being covered where any twitch means the attack succeeds. I think we have made some pretty good headway in increasing the realism but I think that some of the cinematic flavor needs to be there for the game to be fun. T

I was strictly speaking of the kinetic energy of the arrow corresponding to 1d6-1. I agree that this is low and should be increased by a DC or so to represent the sharpness/cutting aspect of broadhead arrows (plus it is just downright cinematic). If you decided to place the limitation on the defense then adding a couple of DC is within reason (I don't know if going up to a full 2d6 is warranted however). This is where you start to get into some serious stuff with regard to ballistic dynamics and such. It is very difficult to account for everything in ammunition. Just an increase of 10 grains (.65g) can change the ballistics of a bullet significantly and that is before you begin to speak of shape and composition. With all of that said, the Muzzle Energy to Damage Classes is a starting point and not an exact science. It does give us a good place to start from. Accuracy is even more important since a .22lr shot to the head IS realistically a kill shot even though it may only do 1/2d6 killing damage. I guess you have to strike a compromise between realism and playability.

That would be dependent on the armor. Many soft armors are now manufactured with metal fibers interwoven to protect vs. bladed attacks. If it isn't then they would be more susceptible and get Semi AP or only half defense as I presented previously (this could be a -1/4 Limitation on the Armor). Since you brought it up, Arrows are generally pretty effective vs. Soft Body Armor. Arrows generally travel at about 300-400 feet per second. The entire arrow usually has a mass of about 400 grains or .0259kg. This, when plugged into our formula, gives an arrow about 150j of energy. Checking our chart that equates to about a 1d6-1 killing attack. Now to take into account the sharpened point and barbs you may want to either increase the DC of the attack or add Semi AP to it. But even with Semi AP it is relatively unlikely that an arrow is going to pierce Level IIIA armor (in fact it will only do so on a roll of 6). In order to increase this I would suggest incorporating both Semi AP and the Half Defense for the armor (unless it is interwoven with Metallic Fibers as I mentioned). T