captainNeda

Ok, I have a question about using two area of effects. I am attempting to build Iron Man's Shoulder Pod miniature missiles as seen in Avengers. This weapon is first seen , when he used to wipe out many Chitauri during the initial parts of the invasion. According to the Marvel Wiki http://ironman.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_VII "The shoulder pod were miniature missiles and fires up to 92 missiles". Building this as an autofire attack that can fire 92 rounds and be area of effect is cost prohibitive, so here is how I was considering the build, "Mini-Missile Launcher (Shoulder): Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Requires 1 charge for each meter fired into (+0), Armor Piercing (+1/4), Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +1/4), Indirect (Source Point is the Character, path can change with every use; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2), Accurate Selective (+3/4), Area Of Effect (64m Radius; +1 1/4) (157 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Limited Range (400m; -1/4), 92 Charges (+3/4)" You'll note I placed Area of affect on there twice, once to represent being able to fire at multiple distinct targets (64m radius accurate selective ) and once to represent a hex size explosion (AE Radius Hex). The creates an affect where all the miniature missiles could be fired at once (at 92 different targets), one at a time, or somewhere in between and have a chance of hitting their target. I considered this build as I had some old 4th edition books that used multiple area of effects to redefine the areas of an attack (such as the tornado spell in fantasy hero). I also found the Accurate Selective Advantage in the Advanced Players Guide I on page 134. My question is it OK to have the two Area of Effects? If not do you have some other ideas on how to build this power to represent what we see in the movie?

What is the next Champions Book that the Hero System is working on? Is it possible to get an update on Viper or other organizations?

I considered followers and Duplication for the multiple armors. Followers mike work best. I'd also consider giving the followers several powers Usable on Others, but restrict that to not cover all the powers. Pepper couldn't use the repulsors when Tony put the armor on her, and he told Rhodey that he couldn't give him and armor because they were only coded to Tony (then again that may have been payback for Rhodey not giving Tony a clip earlier). Also he forced Killian into the Armor and used it to hold him in place. That may be an entangle or TK, or an Entangle with TK, and blowing the armor was an RKA. Still so many ideas.

Spoiler Alert!!!! Ok for those of you who have seen Iron Man 3, how would you write up some of the effects in the movie? Specifically 1. The tele-presence effect of Tony's armor where he could operate it remotely 2. The tele-presence effect of Tony being able to put the armor on someone else 3. The effect of having Jarvis remotely controlling multiple armors at the same time (Duplication?) 4. The ability for Tony to switch into and out of Armor as rapidly as seen in some instances

Ok quick quesion, how would anyone build the flares used in Iron man? Flash, Deflection, Blast, Barrier, AE Radius, line or Cone. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. We see them used to confuse and detonate Heat seeking missiles early, we also see them used as a flash attack to get Iron Monger to release Iron Man. How would you build these?

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Oh by improved turning I mean doubling the number of turns the character can make at combat velocity.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Your right. I just hadn't gotten that far yet as I'm not comfortable with the level of testing I've got to do on the ideas I've come up with. I'm considering 5 points could buy improved turning and 5 points could buy improved acceleration or a Non combat multiplier (these are mutually exclusive) instead of 5 points for improved acceleration and turning, or 5 points for a non combat multiplier. I'd appreciate your thoughts and input. Thanks

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Not bad, Warp9, but figure in time and you'll agree with me. You are right in that the turn will take only 1/4 the turn radius, but because you are traveling 1/2 the velocity it will take 2 times as long. Divide those 4 turns over 2 segments and you get 2 turns per segment. The formula is Centripetal force includes mass and is (mass x velocity^2 )/ radius. For an example assume a 100KG mass traveling at velocity of 32" with a 32" radius. (32^2*100)/32=3200 newtons to make that turn. Now cut the velocity to 16" and the radius to 1/4 8" (16^2*100)/8=3200 newtons. At 16" veleocity the projectile will travel 8" turn 60 degrees, travel 8" turn 60 degrees end a segement on the next segment travel 8" turn 60 degrees, travel 8" turn 60 degrees and complete the 32" of movement. Funny thing is because of this formula I had realized long ago turn mode was tied to acceleration. The force required to accelerate from 0 to x velocity is the same force that would be required to travel at x velocity and make a turn with x radius. If the adder that improves turn mode is tied to acceleration, this makes things really interesting in that a segment based movement system because improved turn mode/acceleration and Noncombat multipliers become mutually exclusive, you could purchase one or the other, not both. What do I mean by that? Lots but ask me later when I have time to go into it.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Yeah, I actually found that chart for VLF back in 1999 and was using it in my 4th Ed game. I was excited when I saw it make it into 5th entirely unchanged. I used his calculations to study physics and learn how Mass and velocity could be calculated for damage. I figure Noncombat movement could be purchased the same way it is now, it just takes extra time to get up to speed, and each NC level adds 2d6 for doubling velocity. I think there should also be two other modifications to combat movement I didnt' include. First every DC used in a move through or move by could be a -1 CV. The Second involves turning which is a long discussion, but basically I think turning should be limited to 1 60 degree turn for a full combat move, and every time a player cuts their movement in half they should double the number of turns they can make. For example if a character has 32" of movement if they move 32" they can make one turn at the end of the 32" run. If they use 16" of movement they can make 2 turns, or 1 every 8". The reflects real world physics and gives players the option to purchase 5 point turn levels to cut the turn mode down. These 5 point levels reflect increased acce

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? I agree. Here is some fun things I learned about KB and hero games systems if it was exponential. With real physcs a bullet from a high power rifle would take -70 str to lift and a velocity of about 512"/segment. If it struck a man sized target that takes 10 STR to lift, the big a difference in Mass would result in no knockback in an completely elastic collision (no energy lost do to the deformation of either the target or projectile). This bullet would bounce off the target with essentially the same velocity it struck the target with 512". Now lets say the projectile was the Superman who as a projectile took 10 STR to lift and he ran into a human size target say Bizarro. In a perfectly elastic collision, because the target and projectile have the same mass the target would stop moving, and the projectile would begin moving at the same velocity the projectile had before the collision. IE if Superman was traveling at say 512" per segment, then struck a target like Bizarro, Bizarro would now have 512" of velocity and Superman would be stopped. This application of real world physics would cause bullets to do no KB, but larger projectiles like most Super Hero's use would do a lot (car's, rocks, Thor's Hammer, Cap's Shield, other characters...). An interesting note is that if champions movement system was changed to be exponential, where movement would cost say 10 pts to double combat velocity and increase move through/by damage by 2d6 this would simplify a lot of things. First of all lets look at the bullet example. 512" of movement/segment would be 100 pts. Now a bullet that takes -70 STR to lift moving with 100 pts of movement would logically be a 30 point attack and would do almost no KB to a human size target (aren't high power rifles 2d6 RKA's?) Also KB becomes a simple chart based on how many points of movement are involved in the relative speed of a collision. Text me later and I'll include some excel spreadsheets with the math.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Thanks SteveZilla. Slow moving compared to a speed of light microwave blast. Most animated depictions of the optic blast (cartoons, movies and so on) allow us to see the optic blast travelling to the target. Blasters in Star Wars obviously aren't spead of light because as soon as they fired they'd hit the target. So compared to firestar's microwave blast cyclops optic blast is slow moving. It thinkg compared to Thor's hammer or Caps shield it's pretty skippy.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? In physics there are two basic types of collisions. Elastic and inelastic. Elastic collisions are collisions where no energy is lost through the deformation of the target or projectile. An example of this would be two billiard balls colliding. They both leave the collision, with the same sum total of energy they came into it with. Inelastic collisions, are collisions where energy is lost do to deformation of the projectile, the target or both. As an example imagine a billiard ball colliding with a lump of playdough. Chances are they will be stuck together after the initial collision as the energy of the collision is lost as the playdough is deformed. In hero it is possible to treat every collision that does body, either to the target or projectile as an inelastic collision. A collision that does not do any body to either the target or projectile could be treated as an Elastic collision. An example of an Elastic collision would be superman performing a move through on Darkseid from the final episode of Justice League. Superman hit Darkseid and all his momentum transfered sending Darkseid flying through at least 3 (maybe as many as 6) buildings. What makes elastic collisions so powerful in a game like Champions is that after a perfect elastic collision of two equal sized objects, the projectile tranfers all it's energy to the target and stops moving while the target continues on at whatever the projectiles velocity was. Again Imagine Superman doing a move through on Darkseid with 64" of flight. After a perfect elastic collision Superman will be stopped and Darkseid would be traveling at a 64" velocity. Of course Knock back damage done to a target that hit's a horizontal servace couldn't work the way it is listed in FRED. Darkseid would take 64d6 and be out. To balance it segment based movement and VLF would need to be used which again is more realistic. Again this goes into another discussion as to why hero should be logrithmic or exponential, but in my mind it should be exponential. In an exponential segment based movement system for here 10 points of movement would double the characters movement and add 2d6. 10 Points would be 1"/segment 20 = 2", 30 = 4", 40 = 8", 50 = 16" and so on. 60 points would be the break even point for a speed 12 character that would provide 32" of movement and 12d6 vs 30" and 10d6. I could go on but I think that would be for another discussion.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? I disagree and you can say based on context. With the exception of the Punisher super heroes don't use guns, villians do. As such bullets shouldn't do knock back. Take Batman Year 1 and Year 2 where Batman is up against a swat team or the Reaper. In both cases he gets shot without any form of knock back (granted he did break stride when shot in the leg and a through hole did slow him down). In my game I feel it is appropriate that I allow some powers to do knock back and others won't. Thor's hammer is a 40 lb chunk of unbreakable stone, likely to do Knock back, Caps shield is a 10lb unbreakable disk less likely to do KB but it's still there. Firestar's microwave energy blast (nope), while Cyclops slow moving kenetic energy blast maybe. If there was a workable system to make things do more effective and realistic KB would you use it?

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Yep. Mass isn't though, and I think if Mass, movement and a knockback chart was used it would scale better than it does now, and still maintain the desired effect of superman being able to knock Darkseid across Metropolis as in the last episode of Justice League.

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? In this case laws of physics can be cooler. A 32" move through can result in 32" of KB. A bricks can start knocking each other back entire city blocks. This is great for energy projectors, speedsters, martial artists, but it sucks for energy projectors That is of course if the energy blast was a bullet or laser. It's a different story if it's a bowling ball

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th? Totally agree, it's to unrealistic. I worked out a more realistic version based on the VLF stuff in the book a few years ago. Small projectiles striking large targets did little knock back, while large projectiles striking small targets sent them flying at twice the velocity. It required that movement be modified so that doubling movement added 2d6 damage. That leads to my real peeve. Movement and move through damage. That is the most broken system there is because it's based on phases not segments, and high speed characters are penalized compared to there low speed high movement counter parts. If there is anything in hero that is broke this is. The fix is to make the whole system exponential, and 10 points of movement adds 2d6 to movement damage and doubles movement. That's how it works in real life Force = 1/2Mass x Velocity^2

Re: Help!!! Gate creation question. OIPD (Obvious Inescapeable Plot Device). How many experience points does someone have to pay for a car, their house or clothing. Consider it part of the terrain and move on. Heck if a character uses an energy blast to blow a hole in the ground do they have to pay for the hole? If a character falls out of a plane do they have to pay for the damage done by gravity? Does a character have to pay character points for electricity in their home? It can still do damage. The point is use a game mechanic, but make it a plot element not a power. Don't worry about it unless it's like a personal power that only one person has access to. If it's just a gateway that is always open and leads from one point in the universe to another, unless it significantly impacts your game don't worry about the cost and just make it a plot element. Imagine your setting is Stargate. Will you make that part of the environment, or make the characters pay for it?

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running Turn Mode For turning, the circumference of a circle is 2piR. I won’t go into the math, but if the force it takes to accelerate was used for making turns, a character moving at full combat velocity would be able to move in a circle with a circumference roughly 6 (actually 6.28) times that of their movement. This means it would take 6 segments to run a 360 degree circle, or to make one turn every 60 degrees. The nice thing is if the character traveled slower, it doesn’t require as much force to change course, that is why they are able to change their turn mode. In game terms a character moving at full combat speed can make 1 evenly spaced 60 degree turn per segment. If they cut their movement in half, they double the number of evenly spaced turns they could make. In other words if a character with 8” of movement moving 8” could make 1 turn every 8”, but if they decided to move only 4”, they could make 2 turns, 1 every 2”. This turn mode works in reverse as well in that every doubling of movement in noncombat cuts the number of turns by half. A character with 16” of combat movement using the normal X2 Noncombat multiplier to travel 32” can make 1 turn every 2 segments, or every 64”. This concept leaves Noncombat levels are unchanged, however they would change improved acceleration and turning levels. What I’d like to do is build a system where a character can double their acceleration and turn mode for 5 Character points. In other words they could go from the basic 2”/1” acceleration to 4”/1” and from on 60 degree turn to two. This adder would also have the added benefit of allowing the character to increase their movement by 50% of their last increase up to their full Natural noncombat value. In other words a character with 4” of combat movement purchasing this adder once gains 2” of movement, and purchasing it a second time would gain another 1”. This adder could be purchased until they had 8” of movement. If this adder is purchased however, they CAN NOT purchase a Non combat multiplier. Basically doubling the acceleration would assume it takes less time to reach top speed. A character starting from a dead stop with 4” of movement would travel 2” before reaching their top speed, and still have a fraction of a second to move at 4” velocity, traveling an additional 2”. Every increase then would only naturally lend itself to improved movement until they character reaches maximum acceleration which is equal to their non-combat movement in one inch. IE a character with 4” has 8” natural Noncom, would be able to increase acceleration to 8”/1”.

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running Acceleration Acceleration is related to Non-combat movement and inversely related to turning. Basically acceleration is 2” / 1” traveled, and turn mode is one evenly spaced 60 degree turn per segment if the full combat movement is used. Every time half the combat movement is used, the character can double the number of EVENLY spaced turns. Every time a non combat multiplier is used, the number of segments to make a 60 degree turn in doubled. Why is that? MATH CONTENT Well assume that we chunk all acceleration in 1 second/segment blocks. Combat movement assumes all movement/displacement is performed in one segment. Displacement (the distance moved) is velocity over Time. Displacement during acceleration is the initial Velocity in this case 0 + the final velocity over 2 or (0+FV)/2. In other words an object going from 0 to 16” would move 8” (0+16)/2. Hence acceleration is 2” per inch.

Re: New Mechanic: Decoupling SPD from Running I know this is an old thread, but this is something I’ve been considering for several years now was an alternate to speed. Throw in your input on it. The basic premise is based on the +5 = 2X power concept where +5 STR Doubles lifting capacity and in theory Damage. I used the Kenetic Energy formula f= 1/2MV^2 where doubling mass doubles damage (+1DC), but doubling velocity quadruples damage (+2DC). Try it. Any way using this premise doubling speed adds 2DC I built movement purchased per segment where 10 points doubles velocity. Base movement is 1”/segment and max human is 2” per segment. The changes this has on the system primarily effect damage, turn mode, acceleration and Noncombat movement. Damage becomes easier and consistent in that movement damage is 2DC for every 5 Pts of movement. 60 pts of movement would be 32”/segment and +12DC. I’ll cover Acceleration, turn Mode and Noncombat movement later.

Re: Haymaker out of combat Personally I really like the 5th Haymaker, it makes a lot more sense to me anyway. In essence I compare it to Offensive strike, and consider the special effect to be putting more weight and movement behind the blow In my mind it seems most people don't know how to throw a real punch and focus their whole body mass into it. A martial strike to me is a proper strike where the attacker makes a quick blow and they put their entire body weight into it and recover quickly. An offensive strike then to me is a proper blow with the entire body weight and some movement localized to the hex behind it like a round house kick, spinning punch or some such big flare attack that takes a while to land hence the -2 OCV. Haymaker would then just be an extension of this, with the characters entire body mass behind it, and localized movement. Like Offensive strike it's slower and more devestating but because it is untrained it's extremely slow and sloppy. The offensive strike is essentially the same, but more refined to present less of a target, and more easily land the blow. Since first reading the STR rules I've always believed that 1d6 of an attack was an apparent doubling of damage. Using the Kenetic energy formula f= ma^2 you could double mass for double damage (1DC) or double movement for quadruple damage (2DC). Martial strike then made more sense to me as a punch with 4 times the mass behind it, or twice the speed, and an offensive srike was both, but the X 1.5 damage for a haymaker broke this mold. I was really happy to see this change. As for most of you, I agree with "What was Steve Smoking when he made this ruling". Dramatic effect is one thing, but if someone can do something once, they should be able to do it again.

Re: "Mundane" Magic Items I wouldn't do this as a detect. Marital statis is a state of being, not something tangible that could be detected. There are signs that indicate marital status such was having wedding rings and such, but these do not necessarily have to be true. Actors where rings and remove them while acting. As you're describing it, this really should be a form of telepathy. Think of it this way, what would be the difference between this detect and one that works against someone's occupation? Heck if my GM allowed this, I'd go for a detect house wife, salesmen, firemen, bank robbers or supervillians (boy that would really spoil a game adn tons of secret id's). How would this detect be any different than a detect friends of Kevin Bacon? I can understand a detect vs certain genetic markers, electromatic wave lengths, vibrations, sounds, types of objects, but marital status is a state of mind in how we Identify ourselves. Married, widowed, divorced, single, engaged, are all states of mind, just like an occupation. I can go from single to married as fast as I can go from computer programmer to unemployed, or unemployed to entrepenuer. Marriage is a relationship. My marital statis is how I identify with another person, or people, and how they with me. Is this any different than my relationship with people as a friend, a stranger, a coworker, a buddy, an aquantance, an enemy or a romantic interest? In each of these cases it is how the other individual thinks of me, and I think of them. Doctor Destroyer may like you, and consider you a friend, but how would you know that. Seeker may hate your sorry butt and call you an enemy and Quantum may be gaga over you, but without telepathy, how would you know? Imagine how would this work on a person that was a blank slate? Jane Doe showed up buck naked with total amnesia, Would this detect you described work on her? An investigator could check her out physically, identify the signs that show if she had kids or not, was a virgin or not, wore certain types of clothes in a while (possibly including wedding rings), but can any of that prove she is or was married? Maybe a detect marriage license or signature, that works at the courthouse, but not marital status. Maybe detect rings, but not wedding rings (because honestly how could you tell a set of matching rings in a set from a set of matching engagement rings). Maybe a detect vs any marker that indicates marital status, but not the status itself. Does that make sense?