Brian Stanfield

I’ve been skulking this thread, and am coming late to it, so forgive my tardiness for this comment. Thomas Carlyle wrote a book called Heroes and Hero Worship discussing how fame can lead to this sort of level of “worship.” The first chapter is a discussion of how Odin rose from a historical figure to actually become a god, and it is fascinating. 
 
I never really enjoyed the deities and similar stuff in fantasy because it always seemed a little (a lot?) contrived. The idea of a God’s power depending upon worshipers seemed kinda cheesy and paradoxical to me because why would anyone worship a god who is not yet powerful, and how could a god become powerful if he does not yet have worshipers?! But Carlyle at least helped me make sense of it for the first time in my life. 

Okay, then maybe I can sell you on the same idea, but just expressed differently. Rather than think of Action Hero as a rewrite/revamp of Dark Champions, consider publishing an entirely new genre book on the same level as Champions, Fantasy Hero, and Star Hero, but called Action Hero. It would cover the territory of action/adventure cinema: war, spy/espionage, counter-terror, martial arts, whatever Fast/Furious is, etc. That would leave Dark Champions 6e to focus more clearly on vigilante justice and "dark superheroes", freeing it from the burden of being an ad hoc catch-all for everything and anything action-oriented in a modern setting.

That is true, but we have considered doing Danger International as a subgenre book for the Dark Champions line that would cover espionage, terrorism, and related subjects. The problem is that it would require an insane amount of research, because if I'm going to write a book about espionage for gaming, it's going to be the book on espionage for gaming. It would cover everything from one caveman keeping a secret from the others, all the way up to the present day; would include bios/descriptions of many famous spies and espionage capers; tons of espionage equipment; "Espionage Super-Skills" like the ones we see in James Bond movies and the like; and of course a section discussing the genre in general, presenting information and campaigning options from the ultra-realistic to the totally absurd but deliciously fun. Especially since I want to keep moving forward on Mythic Hero, a new DI would take at least a year or two of non-stop effort to write -- and even though I do have a couple of potential contributors in mind (one of whom has worked in the US intelligence community for the past three decades), this is a subject that intensely interests me and that I want to write, not assign to other writers.
 
 
I'd definitely like to revamp DC for 6E (you can find PDFs where I've already updated the Templates and some other stuff in the Hero Online Store), but we're not going to change the name. Back in 1993 I wasn't entirely wild about it, but eventually I realized that it was better than my original title (Heroes Of Vengeance, which became the subtitle), and since it's been in use for 30 years we don't want to lose whatever brand recognition we've built up for it.

That's something I'd very much like to do as well -- Vehicles is, I believe, the last remaining subject to be covered in what I think of as "The HERO System Core Library" (which is, basically speaking, all the books with blue and gold covers that discuss "fundamental" subjects such as Magic, Martial Arts, and Equipment). I'm not sure if it would be a good subject to write as a sectional book -- I'd need to do a lot of research to update existing vehicle write-ups and find new vehicles to cover (just last week I read a fascinating article on cool military vehicles currently in use or in development that I'd want to draw on for new vehicles, for instance), and it doesn't really break apart into small sections I can cover on a weekly basis (since I'm only budgeted for so much time per week at present). OTOH, a lot of it would just be updating the existing text to 6E rules, which would be much easier work. So I'll give that some thought.
 
 
As a huge longtime fan of Shadowrun, I certainly love this idea, though I suspect that licensing fees would make it a non-starter (and as much as I love the SR setting, I'm kind of reluctant to spend a lot of effort writing up something that I don't own). In any event, though, before we can even consider this I will have to write a new Cyber Hero genre book, something I've wanted to do forever, have lots of ideas for, and am considering as a possibility for a sectional book or Kickstarter project.

And finally:
 
It would be more appropriately named "Vampire: the Marketing."
 
Remember when it came out?  Pop culture was nuts for all things Vampire. Anne Rice was Still a hot seller, the hipsters were still pretending Buffy was a niche, and there was a brief revisit to goth style in the youth.  As Spence noted, it wasn't marketed to typical RPG players; it was marketed to fang bangers and daydreamers who were spending those vampire bucks.
 
And when the winds shifted, WW sailed beautifully, socializing and generally de-monsterizng werewolves in the same way when Shark boy started taking off his shirt regularly.  I don't remember just which way (I had lost interest in Vampire for the exact dame reasons Spence pointed out: the people playing were... Well, the polite southernism is "touched a bit."), but WW made a pretty deft shift to ride the tide of Blair Witch, and that was every bit as in-and-out as it should have been.
 
For those who stuck with it, they kept grinding out supplemental material, all of which amounted to more versions of the same thing that sold, and the fans kept buying.
 
It makes all the WOD stuff less an exercise in how to make a game that appeals to RPG fans and more of a treatise on "how to cash in on a trend at just the right time."
 
I know there have been hundreds of discussions here on how HERO should have capitalized on the Marvel movies, but there is just no way that would have worked: you want instant recognizability and a rules set that can be picked up, learned, and played by any group of never-played-an-RPG-before types in a weekend, a week at most.  White Wolf did that very thing.
 
The "HERO System" just won't work that way, and each new revision moves it further from having any hope of ever working that way.
 
A superhero game powered by HERO?  That might have worked, but only had HERO had a chance in Hell of licensing known characters.  Nobody saw Golden Heroes or Prowlers and Paragons making any new splash via the popularity of the Marvel Movies, right?  Supers is a super-crowded market; fantasy is a super-crowded market; steampunk has played out; the last good pulp was Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends (don't question it!  Just watch it again, with more seasoned eyes!) or possibly Sid and Marty Croft's Land of the Lost, though Brendan Fraser's Mummy movies were awesome; sci-fi that says Star Trek squeaks by; sci-fi that says Star Wars does extremely well, but only Disney makes money on anything Disney owns.
 
Ultimately, its like any other 'going viral' event: we can sit here and armchair just what needs to happen when and why, but its a matter of a perfect storm of random factors-
 
Remember the one true 5e powered-by-HERO game?  MHI?  Well-loved franchise; an author who is almost his own caricature; books still selling great guns?
 
After the deal is made, the author pulls a stunt that tanks his popularity, and the game went nowhere.
 
There is no magic balloon to carry HERO onward and upward; there is just a lot of hot air about what the ideal solution is.

In terms of "unfolding", as dmjalund puts it, I would revamp Dark Champions for 6e and call it Action Hero, and then put out a Danger International campaign book, providing a complete espionage campaign setting.

I would've loved to see the updated Danger International that was on a list a few years back. 

Kickstarter: someone mentioned in another thread that starship combat rules were punted from Star Hero to the never-complete 6e Vehicles book. I'd be willing to back such a book.

Im very interested in the Patreon concept for Sectional Books.  I like the concept a lot but my initial thought would be that if I have a choice between buying the individual sections and a complete product with art (even b&w art) I would generally wait for the "complete" product.  I'd hate to see this idea fail because people are holding out for the final book. 

If there was a Patreon structure that would let us pay as we go for sections and then reward backers with the complete version later (or let us "upgrade" our digital versions for a nominal fee) that would be ideal.  At this point in my life I'm more interested in the digital versions than physical ones anyway.

So this was a game breaking element last time I played Pathfinder (the first and last time, actually). A buddy had a character who could transform at will with no time delay. So when we were on a ship that got boarded by pirates, he turned into an eagle and flew as far up as he could, then dove back toward the ship and transformed into a mammoth at the last second, cannon-balling his way through the pirate ship, sinking it, and then simply transforming into a shark until he could get all the drowning pirates, and then transform back to himself to re-board our ship. This took him a couple of turns, and nothing more, and he pretty much single-handedly ended that encounter. 
 
It seems like your example could lead to something like this, which makes me a bit uneasy. Don't get me wrong: I'm pretty much convinced by your overall argument. I love it in fact. But there ought to be some limitations on the instant change part of shapeshifting. Of course, those are campaign limitations that the GM ought to define anyway. But I'm not very experienced in these sorts of builds, so I'm not too sure how "unbalancing" it might be in HERO. It most definitely was, however, in Pathfinder. 

@Steve Long Maybe you should consider setting up a Patreon campaign or something like that. There are enough people here who I’d imagine would throw in a little cash on a regular basis to help support the Q&A forum. 

The answer to that question is always "yes".
 
Like when a demon asks you if you are a god.

Aaaannnnnnnd just like that, I came home from chemotherapy on Thursday and found myself eating crackers in bed . . . .
 
 

Aaaannnnnnnd just like that, I came home from chemotherapy on Thursday and found myself eating crackers in bed . . . .
 
 

Thanks everyone. I didn't mean to ghost my own topic. I had to start chemotherapy again with very short notice and my time and energy has been taken up with that.
 
I always forget about the list of pre-rolled results made by the players themselves. That seems like an obvious solution to the mechanical problems I was having a hard time with. Lots of good input on when to do it as well. Thanks for the suggestions!

Thanks everyone. I didn't mean to ghost my own topic. I had to start chemotherapy again with very short notice and my time and energy has been taken up with that.
 
I always forget about the list of pre-rolled results made by the players themselves. That seems like an obvious solution to the mechanical problems I was having a hard time with. Lots of good input on when to do it as well. Thanks for the suggestions!

I'd like to attach a rider to that Bill!  This approach can also really help out the good player.  The one who might be thinking "it feels like I have been pretty lucky so far, and my character is pretty cautious - maybe he should stop and check around.  Or am I only thinking that because I rolled that 15 - my character does not know he rolled a 15."  Since the player does not know he rolled a 15, he is not forced to second-guess whether he really is playing the character, or is being influenced by metagame considerations and player knowledge.

Speaking of hidden rolls, my older son ran a short Basic Fantasy Dungeon crawl. And I saw somewhere that back in the day the DM would roll the thief’s skill on the account that you would think you disabled the trap but that may not be the case.  Anyways since I was running a thief I said let’s try it this way. Well it was fun and I even survived falling in the pit trap! 😂 I called that character the bungler instead of burglar. 

Players make their rolls and the GM makes their rolls.
 
When I GM, if we have new players at the table, either new to roleplaying or new to the game system, then I usually have all rolls made on the table with each person rolling, including myself, explaining the roll and how I, or they, calculated it. 
 
If I am playing with experienced players or players that have gotten the hang of things, then I only ask the players for the results and as GM I do a lot of hidden rolls.  I run a LOT of games that have mystery/investigative themes which means that there are events/rolls that the players cannot know about if those plots are to be preserved and lead on to the big reveals.  A whodunit is not a whodunit if you read the last page first.
 
For the die rolls themselves.
 
If a player is actually cheating as in they are not making a mistake or misunderstood some game mechanic, but are actually rolling one thing and claiming another.   Then why am i bothering to play with them?  I'll be courteous,  but once you have cheated in my game, I'll never invite you back.  And if the rest of the table insists, I will just walk away from the game all together.  I've done it in the past and do not see myself changing in the future.
 
If a player distrusts me enough that they cannot trust me to roll a set of dice or run a game even evenhandedly, then they don't trust me.  Since they don't trust me, why are they in my game?  I am up front in the kind of games I run and what the intended feel and rule restrictions the game will have.  You have a choice, play or sit this one out.   If not enough players like what I have planned, I am more than glad to be a player instead.  If no one else is ready to run I have no problem building a different adventure.  
 
But an RPG game is a game not a forced participation with guards. 
You don't like the way I run, don't play.  It really isn't going to darken my world.
 
I love to create stories that allow the players to solve mysteries, resolve ancient curses and be heroic.  If you know the answer from the beginning it is not a mystery. 
I tend to use die rolls for NPC decisions, will they A or will they B.
I have loose event flow charts that incorporate some random results such as "how long until the Thieves Guild becomes aware of X?" 
These are secret rolls that can directly impact the entire game and no, I am not going to trash an entire plot line because one player had a crappy GM in the past. I have had hundreds of very crappy players in the last 30 years and I don't treat every player at my table as crap because of that. 
RPG's are game and you play or run them as a choice for entertainment. 
 
If you don't like the way I run my games, then don't play them.  I mean seriously why would anyone subject themselves to that?  Playing something they don't like. 
 
I have a friend that is a seriously good GM, but I do not play in his games and vice versa.  Why?  While we can talk for hours about gaming and have a lot of common beliefs, his games have a lot of PvP intrigue and backstabbing.  He and his players love the White Wolf betray everyone games.  I don't.  I love games that actually have good guys.  But I am straying from point.
 
Yes, as GM I frequently make hidden rolls especially if the die roll could reveal something that is hidden.  I never put in a threat of obstacle that is beyond the players abilities.  There is always a way.  I tell new players that at the beginning, there will always be a way.  Just because you cant knock it down by force doesn't mean there isn't a way around.  I also do not make people roll for every skill.   Just asking the question is enough for me to reveal a clue, especially one that the PC would know.  The player may not have that knowledge, but the PC they are playing does.
 
But a player having an issue with me making hidden die rolls in a game that I am running?  That is not my problem, it is theirs. 
If that means that particular game doesn't happen, well that is life.

When face to face just roll behind the screen.
When on line I just roll real dice, and in both cases try not to let the players see the rolls.

For some rolls, like Stealth rolls, what you really have is a skill roll contest, so the player makes a Stealth roll and the GM makes a PER roll for whomever they are trying to sneak past.  If they roll really well, they know they probably won the contest, but they are never quite sure.  Plus, I think the character would have some idea of how well they did (they can hear their own footsteps after all).
 
For rolls that need to be secret, I will sometimes roll those myself.  Mostly my players are okay with that.  But I have also had players make a bunch of rolls and write down the results ahead of time.  I will then use those rolls for whatever action they are doing that needs to be secret.  Once I use a roll, I cross it off, and then go to the next one.  I always start with a random spot in the list so they don't try to figure out if a good roll is coming up or not.  This system lets the players make all their rolls, but keeps them from knowing the exact results of any given action.

Welcome back, Brian!
 
It's _glorious_ to see you out and about again! 
 
There's a big laugh coming your way, as soon as my buttons are recharged again. 
 
 

I would totally agree here, except that I once saw Ernie solve the problem of "not eating crackers in your bed" by eating crackers in Bert's bed instead. Some crackers (albeit very few) really do matter to some beds.
 
But in the spirit of your overall message, we do in fact tend to take ourselves waaaaay to seriously in these discussions, and probably do deserve to sleep in the beds we make for ourselves, crackers or no. 

I would totally agree here, except that I once saw Ernie solve the problem of "not eating crackers in your bed" by eating crackers in Bert's bed instead. Some crackers (albeit very few) really do matter to some beds.
 
But in the spirit of your overall message, we do in fact tend to take ourselves waaaaay to seriously in these discussions, and probably do deserve to sleep in the beds we make for ourselves, crackers or no. 

Yosemite Sam? I mean, c'mon, he's the rootin'est, tootin'est, gosh-darn shootin'est . . . .