knasser2

To reassure, my games are very seldom heroic punch-the-monster style adventures. Which I suspect many Hero games are because it was designed for comic books. My games are usually intense, twisty little things where you seldom know who your true enemy is till the end and there's genuine risk of failure. And my players know that. I do have difficulties with new groups or new players. Especially those that come from a background like D&D and use phrases like "Level Appropriate". Many players do not like playing a game on Nightmare level. But there's a type of player that needs to. "Hello!"

Space Rome is attacked by a giant swarm of toothy monsters. Got to love 40K. But now I want to exploit a player's knowledge of the setting to scare them silly. "So what's this planet we're going to called, anyway?" "Cadia". Even if they're not familiar, they'll be getting plenty of hints. This will be the capstone mission in a (I think) trilogy of adventures. And yes, it's an Inquisitor level game. So it's more like Alien 3 where direct confrontation is very dangerous and they're thinking on their feet on how to kill it. Only unlike Alien 3 there's a creepy cult aspect to it as well. If the players aren't rigid with fear by the climax, I'll have been doing it wrong. I'm not worried about them blundering in thinking it will be a cakewalk.

I run games where people die. I'm for players who like to have to be smart, who like to know they're up against something nasty and who like to feel they've achieved something when they beat me. It's not for everyone, but then what is? The way I figure it is if the creature could as easily kill the player then they're not any worse off if they lose their character some other way. In fact, as I've written this it's considerably harder to pull this off than to simply kill them. Their team mates will have chances to rescue them that they wouldn't if it just slit their throat. It's really going to depend on the GM what circumstances they use genestealers in - I intend to share the WH40K conversion when I've done it all (currently about a third of the way through them). But for myself, I have an adventure in mind where there's a single Genestealer purestrain in part of the underhive (A hive is a megacity, an underhive the lawless lower reaches of it). They'll be investigating a growing cult. If they're reasonably smart, they'll have a good chance to prepare for their final attempt to purge the cult. E.g. obtaining better weapons, roping in some NPCs to help with the hunt, creating some maps of the tunnels with the help of local gangers, etc. It's entirely possible some of them get picked off one by one. If it gets down to a single PC stalking alone through the underhive, playing cat and mouse with a wounded genestealer for the sake of the city, that's going to be about as tense as it gets.

There's also simply learning the system (which I am currently doing) and that I want to share this supplement with other people. For it to be maximally useful, I want to have the powers properly written up. Actually, they're fearsomely aggressive. They're essentially the WH40K version of the Xenomorph from Aliens. Yes - they use Stealth and strike and withdraw. But not really to run away, more to just keep stalking the rest one by one, picking them up. They hide rather than run unless the odds are really against them. They're absolute monsters in HTH and use the stealth to get close without getting shot more than because they're cowardly. I absolutely do intend there be a chance of the genestealer using its power on a PC. I alluded to it earlier when I said I expected a player to roll up a new character if it happened, but with the possibility that they'll carry on playing this one for a bit if the other players don't know they're infected.

Leave it to 40K to take a scenario where people are abducted, implanted with alien DNA and then made part of a creepy cult and ask themselves how they can make it even more horrible... "Oh, I know - lets add a bit of horrified realisation when they find that the star gods they've been worshiping are rounding them up for the digestion pits with everyone else."

This person gets genestealers! This person gets 40K! In the 41st Millenium, lonely, steel spaceship corridors are still swabbed down by tired men with mops. This person gets Hero! This person gets my GM'ing style! Great post. Very helpful and totally the atmosphere I'm going for. 'Stealers are the Xenomorph from Alien, for people who thought it wasn't creepy enough. Presence attack is a nice touch. I'll let it use that.

Thanks for this. It gives me a better understanding of the sort of things I have to be on guard for as a GM with this system.

I thought this over and realised it didn't work. The effect really needs to kick in much more quickly. It would be fine if the urges to go away and breed crept up over the next couple of weeks, but the character needs to become accepting of the Genestealer far more rapidly. I'm also inclined to agree with unclevlad, whether it's legitimate, that it's far too cheap. Not so much for the effect on the victim because as I've pointed out, you could probably kill them as easily, but for the benefit to the attacker. It's effectively a way to create a loyal supporter with a uncapped level of personal power.

At first I thought that would be far too slow for what it represents but on second reading, you mean the actual attack can be quick but the effect starts to manifest over a long period of time! It's never specified exactly how quickly this happens in the fluff but I like the gradual change. It seems quite fitting.

Thanks for the full reply! I appreciate it. To clear up any misconceptions, I'm the GM. Whilst it may appear I'm trying to "cheese the points cost", it's actually just me going through the power description and the modifiers trying to work out what applies. I actually have fairly limited experience with Hero and am just trying to get everything right. I don't mind if it costs a lot - Genestealers are a very high level opponent that could solo a typical Inquisitor-tier party. Hope that context helps clarify. Regarding if the victim is aware of these changes. Yes, more or less. But they're okay with it. It's not deception so much as it is a fundamental change in their attitude. They suddenly feel their biological need for children and starting a family. A sort of inflicted version of turning thirty, if you will. They know that other people regard the genestealer that infected them as a monster, but it's because those other people "don't understand yet." Ditto not recognizing that their child is "special". Best way I can think to put it is that they're inflicted with a sort of "family bond" to the genestealers that doesn't interfere with their thinking, just their goals. If there's someone they're especially close to they may even try to get that person implanted to so that "they can see the light". I see what you mean about 4d6 being too low. I misread the power as needing to exceed the BODY, not 2xBODY. So probably 10d6 would be about right. That way there's a chance even if the victim is pinned, it wont succeed on the first go giving a little longer to rescue the character. Part of my difficulty might be not knowing how high BODY is likely to get in a campaign. I'm mainly basing everything on the Character Ability Guidelines table in 6E1p35. But unfortunately it doesn't include BODY, STUN, END or REC so I'm a bit in the dark as to what are normal values for these at any given level of play. Yes - pretty much every other faction will try to kill genestealers on sight. (Or more likely run for their life to return later with a mob). I didn't get into Hunted or similar because I anticipate a player will roll up a new character (though may want to carry on a little longer for fun if the other players don't know about the infection). No, the transform shouldn't be affected by Regen unless it's something very odd that would actually "reset" the body to a previous state (can't think of anything like that in the setting). Is there any way to make this permanent other than bulk-buying Delayed Return Rate? I can estimate something for humans (although with rejuve treatments a human could live for a couple of centuries - maybe even three). But if it infected an Eldar (Space Elf), they can live for thousands of years.

I'm porting over these lovely fellows for my epic WH40K conversion. Their reproductive cycle is giving me difficulties (and the odd nightmare). The bare bones version is that they implant their genetic material into a victim via an oviposter-like organ in their tongue. This suffuses through the body inserting itself into the host's cells. There's no cure in the fluff so far as I'm aware and it's depicted as Game Over generally. The host remains themselves in nearly all regards but their own progeny will be hybrids. Additionally they take on a few psychological compulsions. They begin to desire settling down and having children. They generally get the urge to withdraw from society (though just having enough privacy to raise their hybrid child without questions will do). They become accepting of the genestealer itself, sometimes even respectful, calling it "grandfather" or similar. Subsequent hybrid generations look more and more human until at the fourth generation they're almost indistinguishable. They can then head out into the wider world and their children will once again be full "purestrain" genestealers, starting the cycle over. I was originally going to do this with Mind Control but the problem is that the change is permanent and there's no chance to break free. The only people I could see "fighting it" are legendary level characters such as Primarchs or Lord Inquisitors, which is way above most PC levels. So I hit upon the idea of using Transform to impose psychological complications. This is pretty much the end of a PC, but then in order to do this, the genestealer has already got the PC in a position where it can kill you, so it's kind of a wash. You're rolling up a new character either way. So does this look suitable costing? Genestealer Kiss Slot #1 (Transform 4d6, Severe, All Or Nothing -½, Inaccurate (0 OCV) -½, Extra Time (1 Turn, No Other Actions) -1½). Active Points: 60. Real Points: 17. ->Psychological Compulsion: Start a family ->Psychological Compulsion: Regard Genestealer as Friend. Slot #2 (Transform 4d6, Severe, All Or Nothing -½, Inaccurate (0 OCV) -½, Extra Time (1 Turn, No Other Actions) -1½, Linked -1). Active Points: 60. Real Points: 13. ->Offspring are Genestealer. Total Active Points: 120. Total Real Points: 30. Even though it's a Mental Transformation I've skipped the Works Against EGO and AVAD modifiers because it doesn't make sense. A physically weak person with a strong mind is still going to be at a disadvantage to a large, powerful person when this thing tries to implant its seed in them. Did I put this together correctly? Just looking for confirmation or pointing out anything I missed.

Well then the answer has been pretty simple all along. It's just buy "Extra Limb" and perhaps a modifier to that power to lower the strength! Thank you.

Indie bands still hired recording studios, paid someone to master their tracks, mail out their marketing material. In fact, it was that they did all these things themselves rather than struck a deal with a recording label to handle it all for them that made them Indie.

I was looking for a way to buy the Grab Manoeuvre. That was my original question. But there's no points cost for it which is why I started the thread.

I don't think the Indie brand will help sell it (but can't hurt). It's not what people think of as "Indie". It's not small, it's not fluffy, and it has a tendency to bite. The big thing that holds Hero back - and it's also the big thing that makes it valuable - is that it's a programming language. And the market for programming languages is programmers. Most people want a finished piece of software. Maybe that's putting it too strongly. If you want to whip up a Superhero game, I guess you sort of have to take the Hero approach to make it able to cover all the different character types. But the fact remains that you're buying a box of bits, not a box of toys. I presume FHC and similar are a recognition of this and an attempt to provide a pared down and more focused version that people can get into more easily. A recognition that a huge blank sheet is simply too much for some people and they'd prefer a small blank sheet they have a reasonable chance to fill. And I think that effort needs to be taken. But I don't know if it's the right approach. It's still very much a blank sheet. My attempt to solve the issue was to build a much more specific setting and rule system using Hero. I may market it one day, I'm quite proud of it. But what I did was to create specific character templates not in the way Hero supplements usually do, as suggestions of "hey - you could do something like this" but as specific "Choose one of these six races. Choose one of these twelve classes". I built D&D in Hero 6e. I provided choices rather than freedom. And it worked. I had a few people telling me I was flying against the whole intent of Hero. And you know what? I totally was. I DID turn it into D&D. But you know what? It was a better version of D&D. Because Hero is a very powerful and well-thought out system. I took what I found valuable in Hero (great rules and balance) and used it to make a finished game that people could pick up and get stuck in. If they ever want to use Hero, well, the appendix has the points breakdowns, but they don't need to. I'm convinced it has the potential to be successful if I ever get it to publishable form. I think that's what Hero needs for mass-market appeal. Sell complete games made with Hero, rather than hope to make Hero more universal by exposing people to subsets of it at a time.

Fantasy Flight produce the X-Wing and Armada games, tonnes of board games and several role-playing game lines including WH40K (three related game lines) and Star Wars. The latter has churned out at least twenty hardback books. Even if odd games are small, their ownership or marketing by big companies like FFG disqualify them. Indie was a music term (along with an advertising schtick of "Oooh, isn't the Music Industry evil... Fight it by listening to us!") meaning not owned or marketed by a larger business. So even games like Pugmire which is small and was the brainchild of a single, home author with community support, isn't really Indie because Onyx Path bought rights to market it under their label, just like EMI bought up small, promising bands to market them. Indie really means "we made it and it's ours". Not Indie means "we made it for somebody else". Whether that "somebody else" is another company or a board of directors. It's why Monte Cook is considered Indie - because even though he's established and long-term figure in the industry, he's still someone making his own product and selling it, no matter how successful. And Richard Thomas isn't really, even if he put together a Kickstarter for Pugmire and it looks like a small press game - because he partnered with an established RPG company that deals in RPGs to market and sell it. Hero *is* an Indie game so far as I'm aware. It's the labour of a few people (plus a lot of supplemental help) who sold it to the public themselves.

Well there's Fantasy Flight Games. You can't call them Indie and they have several RPG lines. And Onyx Path might try to look Indie, but even if they're not big, they're still a professional outfit with permanent staff. Catalyst Game Labs which bought Shadowrun can't really be called Indie unless failure through your own terrible decisions counts as Indie now (it doesn't). Cubicle 7 has a real small press feel to them and I don't think they're big. But they crank out great stuff with licences like Doctor Who and Warhammer, so also not really Indie. But honestly, it's not a word I usually think with.

I SENT A GROTZ FOR ME SHOOTAH ONE TIME. AND HE COMES BACK WIT ME CHOPPA. SO'S I HADZ TO RESENT HIM BACK AGAIN. IS THAT WOT YOU MEANZ?

OI! WE JUST TOLDS YER WE DON'T KNOW WOT DAT MEANS.

Ah, the Inquisition approach. Opposed roll works for me. I like it and, as you say, it gives the pilot a way to respond which I like. I don't think this will be a commonplace occurrence, don't worry! But when they do come up against one it'll probably be in some sort of siege scenario where there are convenient heavy weapons points for them to man. I run quite gritty, tense games. So every now and then I like my players to have a Christmas morning experience where they get to break out the big toys. Can't have a triumph without a challenge!

If the game line is more or less its own company, I'd call it Indie. Owned by a larger company, I would not. Smaller companies like Cubicle 7 might edge their games into the category just about, even though technically they shouldn't. The term "Indie" feels more like a cultural affiliation than a technical category to me. A sort of "We're not the Man, man!" branding. There were lots of "Indie" bands from Seattle that were corporate as Hell. Whilst something like Pugmire might be produced by Onyx Path but somehow feels more small "labour of love" game than you'd think.

OCV -12 is a bit strong at the power levels for this game. Though Space Marine characters might pull it off. And I want the shield to still be struck if they fail. I think I'll just keep the first part and have a pre-roll to get the timing. It'll ramp up the excitement for the coming Attack Roll if they succeed at it. I might modify it if they have Autofire as that would make sense. I don't expect this to be a routine thing, but I'd like to let them try.

A bit more context. It's a troop transport / deployment vehicle and the shield is only at the front. So PCs have the possibility of getting round the sides and back with good tactics. The primary military intent of it is to charge forward into and possibly through enemy lines and disgorge a squad of soldiers (typically CQC specialists) in amongst them. It's a setting where people have actual chainsaw swords. It's pretty gonzo.

Okay. This is for my WH40K conversion. The tank is an Eldar Wave Serpent. Eldar are essentially Space Elves. Only they make regular elves look positively humble by comparison. The Eldar word for humans is "Mon-Keigh". Their technology is highly advanced. The fluff and rules for Wave Serpents has varied with the years. The originals were pure troop transports and had no armaments. Later versions made them flying tanks and added projectile weapon armaments. The force field is not their only defence. They are also quite well armoured physically. Around the same level as a human fast tank, a hair under a human main battle tank. And far faster. Human society in the setting is verging on post-Apocalyptic. They have advanced technology but don't understand it. There are whole automated factories that churn out tanks and nobody dares tough anything for fear of it stopping and them not being able to start it up again. Technology is worshipped and ritualised. A skilled tech-priest might figure out how to pull off what you're talking about (especially if they're a PC), but chances of it becoming a widespread feature of human weapons is effectively zilch. Humanity has essentially become a cargo cult. And ork technology is a complicated subject to say the least. The fluff doesn't say it flickers. (Though it ripples, apparently!). However, I see the RPG version as an opportunity to fill in some of the fine points that the wargame doesn't. Players will certainly ask how it's possible to go through it one direction and not the other so it's either flickering or declare you can have one-way force fields in the setting. I dislike the mental image of the latter so flickering is how I'm explaining it.

WE IZ ORKZ! WE DONT KNOW DA MEANING OF RE... RES... DAT WORD WOT MEANS NOT KRUMPIN SOMEONE AS 'ARD AS YOU CAN KRUMP IM!