Commoner1

Juggernaut by PretzelBot

If (and it might not be; I may have missed the actual thrust here) the point is to simplify or reduce the size of the rules book(s), this apparently can't happen.
 
While I personally (this often-overlooked term is a word that indicates I'm offering an opinion and not just trying to stir up hate and discontent that leads to a thread-derailing argument of hurt feelings and wounded pride) think that a considerable amount of the rules bloat came from a shift in attitude of the rules themselves.  Someone else on these boards stated it more concisely than I could have:  the rules have gone from "permissive" to "restrictive."  That is, once upon a time, powers and skills and such included whatever you expected them to include-- put another way, whatever you and your group / GM expected them to.   Then came the creep-in of "NO!"  Bits and pieces were slowly pulled out and teased apart and suddenly became advantages and adders and modifiers, all of which had to be explained, costed, and demonstrated.   One small example is "Change Orientation" for Teleport.  Used to be assumed, now it costs money.  A recently-discussed second option is "Rapid" for perception.  What was once just a schtick now costs points, and from that same recent discussion, it seems like it can cost a hell of a lot of them for what, if actually role-played to meet the description, would absolutely wreck everyone else's good time in addition to being totally impossible to do.   (we don't make people with flight by life support vs cold to fly higher than a kilometer or so, but we _do_ make speedsters pay for the ability to see where they're going?!  Crap; I shouldn't have said that.  Edition 7 will now include "able to survive the use of your power" as a separate element for half the powers now....)
 
Once upon a time, you assumed things like "can see where he's going" and "can fly at least 3km up because there's air for him to breathe there" were already included (and you didn't bother with math about the energy expenditures for parabolic travel versus plowing flat over the ground at a height of ten meters, nor the loss of distance traveled in the same time between the two techniques.   That'll have to wait for either 7e or APG 9 or wherever it is we decide additional complexity should go.)
 
 
 
Agreed, but given the creep toward restrictive build rules -- i.e., "No; not unless you also buy this and this and this and this, (which made the 5e out-of-nowhere inclusion of "Growth Momentum" really glaring.  All other editions recognized that there was no inherent momentum in "I get bigger," and characters wanting it built it as a separate attack (or extra damage) with "Growth Momentum" as a separate attack.  I didn't mind the inclusion of it, but it seemed to weird next to new rules that were pulling stuff _out_ of "this power comes with" and turning it into "costs extra.")  it won't work.  If you are going to design a rules set that requires those options to build what the player envisions, then you are going to have to actually present those options.
 
Now it might seem that I'm being really hard on the new overall attitude of the rules, but I'm _not_.  I'm pointing out one of the main reasons that the rules _are_ so big and _why_ there are so many options presented.
 
Here's the edge you have to walk to write a set  of rules for this game:
 
Keep it short and brief.  Okay, one paragraph each for powers.  Let's be kind and say "no more than three paragraphs each for powers."   If you want to limit the size of those paragraphs to less than a page each, you'll have to include "not written by a lawyer" or possibly even specify "must be written by a mathematician  (Why is that word so hard to type?!!!)."   I can't _fully_ endorse either of those things, though:  lawyers are trained for keen and specific use of verbiage, and tend to be careful about selecting their words and ensuring that contradictions either don't exist or are well-explained (which leads to the verbosity, of course, but now we know why that's not always bad) and I don't know of anything I've read written by a mathematician (I am so done typing that word!  We're going back to AMG: amazing math guy), but if playing with numbers is your real joy, well there are likely to be great and lengthy sessions of tear-out and build-in of the various elements to seek the mythical "perfect balance" between Swimming and  Ranged Killing Attack. I can't see that _not_ ending up with more and lengthier "power does include this, but if you want any of the following sixty-two elements, you must by the appropriate advantages, so let's explain them, too."
 
 
Now I started out saying that this shift in the attitude of permissive / restrictive rules is _part_ of the bloat.
 
 
The rest of it is us.
 
You heard me:  It's us.  The players.  We _had_ the very thing we're sitting here crying about not having.  First edition was 56 pages start to finish (+10 if you add the covers and eight character sheets).  2e was eighty pages (which included a selection of villains to get off to a quick start).  3e was 96 pages (boxed set) and had _no_ character sheet (it was printed on the rear cover of the separate 40=page Campaign Book in the boxed set).
 
Third edition gained ever more rules spread through supplements, adventures, etc, all of which were specific to situations presented in those supplements and adventures and eventually even entirely new games build using Champions rules with custom tweaks for the game being presented.
 
4e, as we all know, was little more than gathering _all_ that material in one place.  All of it from all the supplements and previous editions and hammering it all into one cohesive rules set that would cover _everything_.  You would never need another rules set again, because it was all here.   The the genre books came out and totally wrecked that idea:  Here, have new characteristics!  Have new Talents and Skills!  Have new modifiers for other powers!  Have some Kung Phooey!
 
5e was lather, rinse, repeat, meaning that it had the ground work of 6e already laid in.....
 
 
So why this constant growth?
 
 
Us.  We weren't happy with what we had.  We had questions.  We had problems.  We didn't want to answer all of them ourselves.   We have this super-anal fetish to make sure we're doing our thing exactly the same way someone else is doing their thing (or vice-versa).  We might be having the time of our lives, but we're not happy until we know it's a book-legal time of our lives.  (Yes; I know every time someone mentions this inherent need to be book legal, we pay great homage to the idea that "the game is yours!  Change it how you want!"  Then we run off to some other thread to make sure it's all nice and book legal. )
 
 
There were _so many_ great points you raised, and I wanted to address so many more, but I have _got_ to get going, so if I may simply offer a poor wrap-up of what I've started  (I _am_ sorry to lurch off like this, but the pop-up says Hugh has replied, and it made me glance at the time, and I really have to be somewhere in just a few minutes):
 
 
We wanted more rules.  Some people figured out their own vehicle rules, for example.  Others didn't.  Others _wouldn't_, and demanded to know how to do that "officially."   
 
We ran into situations we weren't sure how to handle.  We wanted rules for that.  We developed the habit of building the entire world in HERO stats (what was the DEF of Granny's screen porch again?  Doesn't it take x4 BOD from fire-based attacks?)
 
We _wanted_ rules.  We asked for them.  We begged for them, and lamented the lack of new ones all through the long years of 4e when everything HERO-related stopped, and we turned to the internet and our fellow fans for new ideas.  We wanted to hard limits to help the different kinds of players work well at the same tables.  We wanted to be able to mathematically simulate (and to price in character points) every single aspect of the world we were building, and wanted it all to be precisely relevant tot he world in which we live.  Hell, I'm not claiming I'm exempt!  I _love_ building stuff in HERO terms!  
 
We just wanted lots and lots of rules.
 
 
Well now we've got them.  
 
 
Yet look at the number of "how do I...?" threads.  There are still issues that are not clear.  There are still problems.  Yes; I personally think the restrictiveness creeping into the massive rules tomes is part of that problem, but I also don't see a solution in simply doing away with it and stating "Okay, just decide that a power features all its elements automatically, and take Limitations on any of them you don't want in your build."  Honestly, either way still gives advantage to the clever or the highly-motivated.
 
Obviously simpler rules ins't the answer:  I don't think the PDFs of 1, 2, or 3e in the HERO store are selling like hotcakes.  I'm pretty sure even Sidekick isn't doing anything appreciable, nor even HERO Basic (Sidekick 6e, dammit!    )
 
Look also at the fact that in the subsequent books, bloat wasn't just in the build rules.  It wasn't just in the breaking things rules.  It wasn't just in combat or movement.
 
There was more and more bloat in the "tell me about the world I'm going to be playing in" sections, too.   People have _always_ wanted playable-out-of-the-box worlds.  People have _always_ wanted pre-build adventures.   Given the amount of time it takes to create from whole-cloth in the new rules (much, much more to select from when you're building _anything_, after all), people need them more than ever.
 
 
But not everyone.  Not at this point.  Most of us have game worlds and game groups with long-established histories at this point.  Let's face it:  new players aren't happening as fast as the old ones are dying off.   There's not a big enough market to support it anymore.
 
 
So let's try this:
 
Fan-built adventures.   Post 'em here.  Co-operate and build one together.   Get with Jason and see if you can toss them into the store: a buck a piece, even.   I won't lie:  I've got three groups I have to run, and a  job  that eats up over 70 hours a week.  I'd buy even a passable adventure in a heartbeat.  As much as it shames me to say it, I've been recycling from group to group for over a year now, simply because I don't have the time to come up with new stuff like I used to.
Now I really, really have to go.  I wish I could have addressed more, but such is life.
 

Hero has had MANY rewrites and rulebooks.  In addition to the big core books they had the Sidekicks and Basic Rulebooks which were streamlined books of 128 or 138 pages.  Champions Complete is yet ANOTHER basic rewrite for only minor changes. 
 
The reason that hero is on basic life support and giving up the ghost fast is that it was decided in the past (4th or 5th?) to not provide any kind of campaigns or adventures.  Real gamers don't use them and similar tripe.  Sure, I still believe the 5th edition and 6th edition genre books are fantastic sources for designing worlds/campaigns.  As are the setting books.  But none of those products address the HUGE massively glaring missing part of the game.  Literally every successful RPG on the market has it, except Hero.  
 
PLAYABLE Adventures and Campaigns. 
 
Yes, I know.  The microscopically tiny remaining gamers that are even aware of Hero insist they "would never use prebuilt".  But it is 2019 and the vast majority of gamers simply do not have time to built stuff.  That is why D&D packs the house.  Many of the people I know that play it don't even like D&D.  But it is one of the only games that they can actually play, as in sit at a table and actually chunk dice. 
 
Hero has never been hard to play. 
It has never been overly hard to design characters providing the person doing it has a basic imagination.
 
What has been made into a overwhelmingly daunting task is the requirement for the GM to design everything from practically scratch.
 
Hero does not need Champions Now, Champions Later or Champions Counter Clockwise. 
What it needs is the minimum support for the existing line.
Champions Complete is the current version.
Now we need a few STARTER adventures suitable for initial build characters and at least one campaign to help new GM's with a practical and PLAYABLE example of a superworld. 
 
The myth that people do not buy or play adventures or campaigns may have been true years ago.  But they are majority of product that moves in the here and now. 
 
I feel like we are a group of old curmudgeons out in the stable hammering out horse shoes because "Dag-nab-it, them there horseless carriages will never catch on".

Yes, rPD and rED cover normal (non-killing) physical and energy damage.  Also, your normal (non-resistant) PD or ED is added to your rPD and rED, with that total applied against the STUN of a Killing Attack.  Only the rPD / rED is applied against the BODY damage of the killing attack.
 
For example, let's say Joe the SWAT Cop is wearing a bulletproof vest (6 rPD / 6 rED) and has his own 4 PD / 2 ED.  Joe is shot in the chest with a pistol (1d6+1 RKA), doing 5 BODY and 15 STUN.  The 5 BODY goes against the 6 rPD (doing no BODY damage to Joe), and the 15 STUN goes against the 10 total PD (6 rPD + 4 PD), doing 5 STUN to Joe.  If the thug hit Joe in the back with a lead pipe (doing 5 BODY and 18 STUN of normal damage), Joe would still get his full 10 PD against the attack (taking no BODY and 8 STUN).
 
As such, I advise a mix of Resistant and Normal defenses, because the resistant defenses cost more than the normal defenses.
 

To be honest, I don't disallow it either.  However, as it got used more often by the PC hero, I had the bad guys develop defenses against it, with ARGENT producing a neat device that they'll sell to villains for a tidy sum.  (Though I like your idea for dealing with it.)

"Mental Paralysis (Entangle that goes against EGO, not STR)"
 
My gaming group calls that one "The I Win Button."  We don't disallow it, but anyone who uses it buys beer & pizza for the whole table next session.

400 points for 6th Ed, but be sure to put a 12 DC/60AP cap on powers, make sure every knows they are expected to spend AT LEAST 60 points in Skills NOT INCLUDING COMBAT SKILL LEVELS,  and be sure players are aware of your campaign's CV norms.
 
Also make sure they know they are each expected to have several NPC Contacts.

" I was already quite sceptic about VPPs"
 
I only allow VERY experienced Hero System players to use a VPP.  NOT "very experienced RPG players".  I insist the player be a very experienced Hero System player and GM before I will allow then to play a character with a VPP.  And even then I insist they show up with a "Spell Book" of various powers pre-built on paper so that they aren't flipping pages or just winging it at the table. slowing the game down.
 
VPPs are awesome in the right hands.  But you don't give a machine gun to a chimp.

Beyond its use on heroes themselves or their foes / innocent bystanders, a PC having Healing raises some interesting potential issues.  Does he spend his free time going to hospitals and helping out all the people there?  If his ability to Heal is known, is he inundated by requests / demands to heal the wealthy / loved ones / famous people?  And as a GM, how do you handle things like incurable cancer?  (FYI I did it as a DoT Drain of not only BODY but also CON, STR, DEX, and/or other things.  So the PC's Healing (BODY) may buy the person some time, but the DoT continues and the person still slides downhill even after the Healing is done.)
 
BTW, I'm not saying you shouldn't allow Healing at all.  That's your call.  But you may want to think long and hard about it.
 
As to balance, having good lines of communication with your players and common-sense application of rules is a good part of it.  But as Gnome Body pointed out, you'll also want to make sure CVs and damage levels aren't unbalanced.

This touches one of the smaller story arcs I have planned about a superpowered evangelical faith healer who uses his incredible healing powers only to extort ludicruos amounts of wealth and power from his believers. Is that evil or is he operating a tolerable grey area or is he even truly blessed by a higher power? 🙂 It's up to the players to decide and/or find out  what's really going on. 🙂

Margarita Man

Nibblin' on sponge cake
Helping a thug make
The smartest decision he's made in some time
Yeah he'll get off scott free
But that doesn't bug me
'Cause the three he'll turn in are the worst kinds of slime.

Savin' the day again, I'm Margarita Man
Scanning for some good deed I can do
Some people claim the fact I'm here is a shame,
But I know, that they don't have a clue.

That mugger was stalking
A young woman walking
But now he's freaked out and his mind's come unglued
She's a real beauty
A Mexican cutie
She's had a close call, but she hasn't a clue.

Savin' the day again, I'm Margarita Man
Scanning for some good deed I can do
Some people claim the fact I'm here is a shame,
But I know, that they don't have a clue.
 
My fights, I must pick 'em
I can't save each victim
And mind reading psychopaths drives me to drink
But if you ask how come
Some killers get so dumb
And finally get caught, well now, what do you think?
 
Savin' the day again, I'm Margarita Man
Scanning for some good deed I can do
Some people claim the fact I'm here is a shame,
But I know, that they don't have a clue.
 
 
 

Lucius Alexander

Some people claim that Jimmy Buffet's to blame,
But I know, it's the palindromedary's fault.

Margarita Man! LOL.
 
This character design is one of my favourite examples to new players about the sort of abusive builds that can be created (and that should be avoided.) But he's never had a name before. Margarita Man <snicker> Stealing it.

Hello,
 
I've been lurking in this forum for some time now and I never bothered to create an account. But my group and I finally get around to start our first Champions game next week.
 
I'm the GM and my Champions Universe is a mixture of the written Universe and the City of Heroes Universe (mostly for enemy groups like the Skulls Gang and the Malta Group which I find much more interesting than the Champions gangs and corporations). The major difference is that almost all heroes besides the low powered one like Silver Avenger Sanchez just mysteriously vanish due to a plan of the still presumed to be dead Dr. Destroyer. But I want to make use of several established Champions characters:
 
Black Paladin and Entropy are the first Master Villains behind the Skulls with the Monster as their premier enforcer. Black Paladin is much weaker right now because he is still in the process of regaining his weaponry and armor. This is also the plot hook for the first story arc I planned. Warlord and the Warmachine as a constant threat looming over their heads. Warlord threshes the group during their first encounters but gets much more mangeable over time as they grow in strength. Dr. Destroyer is the big bad in the background. His time is about to finally run out (he has just 24 hours of life time left, so he spends almost all time in stasis) and he made basically every noteworthy hero disappear in a mysterious way. So he gains free reign at achieving immortality. Molnya and a less cruel but funnier Beek start out as enemies and allies of Warlord but become rather dependable frienemies of the group over the course of the campaign. Blackguard, Cateran and Bulldozer are recurring and rather light-hearted opponents who are supposed to be comic relief or even romantic interests (well, not Bulldozer, he's just there for the laughs 😂) for the group. Panzer, Garguntua and the Ultimates are supposed to have major guest appereances but not necessarily in combat encounters/arcs.  
I have 6 players and our campaigns tend to run for 5+ years if we stick with a game so I plan accordingly. The players are all very genre savvy and put a big emphasize on teamwork without going down the minmax route. We all like to start small and grow strong over time.
 
The lineup so far is mystic Weaponmaster with teleportation, superstrong mind reader with low toughness, mystical standard Brick, energy projector with a water flavor and some healing powers, force field projector for defense and offense, gadgeteer with a focus on information gathering and scouting.
 
What would be an appropriate CP value for such a group? I'm not spoiling the numbers I've got in my mind so I get your unbiased responses. 😃
 
Also: What is a good starting CP value if you want to play Champions (6th Edition - "Complete") "by the book" where even Alpha- and Beta-Level villains (with some mook support) pose a threat for a group of seasoned players.

This thought has given rise to a general guideline in my games.  If I wouldn't want the players to use a particular power writeup, then I shouldn't use it (or something similar to it) against them.  And vice versa - if a player is wanting a questionable power, ask him how he'll feel when (not if) something similar is used against him.

I would avoid potentially bad party mixes such as:
Characters built for a different type of game such as combat-monkeys for a role-playing-heavy game or a role-playing-heavy character for a combat-focused game. Provide players some build guidelines so they know whether they'll be playing in Superhero Fight Club or Ang Lee's Superhero Art Film. Players who unintentionally build rivalrous characters with the same power set, party role, or schtick. For example, two players build scrappers, but one consistently outshines the other and makes that player feel useless or underpowered. While Champions is "classless" you still may want to encourage players to build toward a desired party role. However, there is fun to be had for groups who intentionally build rivals. Just make sure your players want that fun. Players who unintentionally build characters who are antagonistic toward other characters in party. This is usually some poor mix of Complications like player one has a hatred of aliens and player two makes an alien. It's fine when intra-party conflict is a dynamic your players want, but such interactions should not come as a surprise. Again, build guidelines such as, "no brooding loners or murder hobos" can prevent these issues. Groups where one or more players have attacks against alternate defenses or attacks with no normal defense that make other players feel useless or underpowered. These attacks should have diminishing returns over time as foes adapt to them. "This time the Malta agents have come prepared for Internet Troll's NND mental attacks." Essentially, everyone should have a time to shine. Don't consistently reward or punish one power build over another.

Be very careful with what supersenses you permit your players.  Simple things like seeing through walls, identifying people by scent, or detecting electricity can be surprisingly difficult to plan around.  I once GM'd for a character who spent a good eighth of their point budget on super-sight.  Finding ways to have elements of mystery and surprise was very hard when he could look clear through the Earth and into the villain's lair!  And then the one time I planned for him to use this to find something, he of course didn't show up to the session grumble grumble.
Be very careful with VPPs.  First, it makes it easy for a player to have something unexpected and solve what you thought would be three weeks of game.  Make sure to put limits on what it can do so you can predict their range of options.  Second, it makes it easy for a character to accidentally step on another character's toes.  Make sure they talk with the other players so VPP-Man doesn't steal Laser Gun Man's spotlight.  Third, it can drag the game to a complete halt while a player tries to figure out how to build a certain power.  I'd recommend either implementing a 60-second rule or declaring that if they haven't figured out how to make the power OOC, their PC is still figuring it out IC and thus holding their turn/doing nothing. 
Be very careful with defenses and offenses.  If one PC rolls up with 45 PD and ED backed by 80 STUN and another PC has 8 PD and ED backed by 25 STUN, anything that threatens the former will OHKO the latter.  Likewise, if once PC has 10 OCV and 6d6 damage while another has 6 OCV and 16d6 damage, the former risks rarely doing damage past defense while the latter risks rarely hitting (and neither is fun!).  The game scales up and down well, but make sure your PCs are within a dozen or so Defense and a few CVs and DCs of each other so combat runs smoothly. 

Hello,
 
I've been lurking in this forum for some time now and I never bothered to create an account. But my group and I finally get around to start our first Champions game next week.
 
I'm the GM and my Champions Universe is a mixture of the written Universe and the City of Heroes Universe (mostly for enemy groups like the Skulls Gang and the Malta Group which I find much more interesting than the Champions gangs and corporations). The major difference is that almost all heroes besides the low powered one like Silver Avenger Sanchez just mysteriously vanish due to a plan of the still presumed to be dead Dr. Destroyer. But I want to make use of several established Champions characters:
 
Black Paladin and Entropy are the first Master Villains behind the Skulls with the Monster as their premier enforcer. Black Paladin is much weaker right now because he is still in the process of regaining his weaponry and armor. This is also the plot hook for the first story arc I planned. Warlord and the Warmachine as a constant threat looming over their heads. Warlord threshes the group during their first encounters but gets much more mangeable over time as they grow in strength. Dr. Destroyer is the big bad in the background. His time is about to finally run out (he has just 24 hours of life time left, so he spends almost all time in stasis) and he made basically every noteworthy hero disappear in a mysterious way. So he gains free reign at achieving immortality. Molnya and a less cruel but funnier Beek start out as enemies and allies of Warlord but become rather dependable frienemies of the group over the course of the campaign. Blackguard, Cateran and Bulldozer are recurring and rather light-hearted opponents who are supposed to be comic relief or even romantic interests (well, not Bulldozer, he's just there for the laughs 😂) for the group. Panzer, Garguntua and the Ultimates are supposed to have major guest appereances but not necessarily in combat encounters/arcs.  
I have 6 players and our campaigns tend to run for 5+ years if we stick with a game so I plan accordingly. The players are all very genre savvy and put a big emphasize on teamwork without going down the minmax route. We all like to start small and grow strong over time.
 
The lineup so far is mystic Weaponmaster with teleportation, superstrong mind reader with low toughness, mystical standard Brick, energy projector with a water flavor and some healing powers, force field projector for defense and offense, gadgeteer with a focus on information gathering and scouting.
 
What would be an appropriate CP value for such a group? I'm not spoiling the numbers I've got in my mind so I get your unbiased responses. 😃
 
Also: What is a good starting CP value if you want to play Champions (6th Edition - "Complete") "by the book" where even Alpha- and Beta-Level villains (with some mook support) pose a threat for a group of seasoned players.

I suggest adding to the "required" books Hero System Martial Arts. Having a nice number or pre-built martial arts styles, both real and fake, and a system for creating more makes the book a book not to game without.
 
You should also have both Advance System books, which of course are not mandatory at all, but are interesting stuff to look over in your spare time. Especially when you want to do things like take possession of others or stop time ("Za Worldoh!").
 
A few adventures to slip between your original adventures are good.
 
I'm assuming you have all three Champions Villain Volumes. Tiger has some nice Forgotten Enemies books that I recommend. And his Terror Inc. stuff and the recent Los Assinasos book (redoing the classic villain team from the BBB for 6ed).
 
And welcome to the board.

The Game Basics section on page 8 of Champions Complete explains the four icons you can see for certain rules. Rules with exclamation points and stop signs are the ones I suggest you pay the most attention to. It's possible to build some "I win" power combinations where there is little to no defense against it. For example, making a teleport power usable as an attack that you use to port enemies away or into harm's way. Or an attack with no normal defense that does body damage. Players may think it's great to use such a power on others, but they generally don't like it used on them. In general, every attack should have a defense. I suggest violating that rule sparingly so that when it occurs it has dramatic consequences. There are already plenty of power mechanics and interactions for you and your players to learn, and you can always add in more complex builds as you become more comfortable with the rules. There is a recent thread about Cheesy-munchkiny builds you've seen that will give you an idea of the kind of powers you may want to avoid.
 

I second steriaca's recommendation of the Hero Martial Arts book.  That's probably the one I use the most after 6E1 and Powers.
 
I would recommend either avoiding or at least strongly regulating the following:
Healing - Having this available seemed to give my players a "who cares?" attitude toward BODY damage (both to themselves as well as what they did to bad guys, and often what was done to normals), as the mage would just heal it after the battle was over. VPP without limits on what powers are available -- particularly one that can be changed without a roll in combat, in the hands of someone familiar with the system.  It can provide an instant band-aid for anything and everything. Usable by others, particularly for defensive powers.  I'll second Durzan's "Teleportation Usable as Attack."  This can be a major pain in the arse. Any power combo that can give rise to the Mentalist Sniper Syndrome (e.g. Invisibility to multiple sense groups + mental powers, huge Mind Scan, etc.).  Someone here posted an amusing Margarita Man concept - a mentalist who sits on a tropical beach, sipping margaritas and mind-scanning for targets halfway across the planet, then blasting them mentally.  Mental Paralysis (Entangle that goes against EGO, not STR) Any character with multiple different NNDs / AVADs.  ("Oh, you're protected against my NND gas attack?  Let's see if you're insulated against my electrical NND.  Or my AVAD against Resistant Power Defense...")

Character points are just a starting point. Things like campaign limits, decisions about which "stop sign" powers you want to allow, and just talking with your group about the type of game they want to play also factor into a fun game. I would suggest adding in rules and powers as you feel comfortable rather than starting with all the bling, but your mileage may vary. Welcome the boards, and I look forward to hearing about your games.

Thank you very much for all your answers. 😊 They all helped a lot.
 
 
 
We usually play twice a month. So we're right in the middle. 😊
 
 
I think so myself because I'm still in the "having to be approved by mod"-phase. Thanks a lot for the welcome. 😊
 
 
I share your feeling about 300 points! 😄
 
 
Your posting exactly reflects my thinking. 🙂 We have a big emphasize on teamwork in our group so I usually expect my group to punch quite a bit above their weight class, so I have to either reduce their entry level or up the opposition (a lot). And yes, your example is also right. 😊 The Skulls are supposed to be the entry level opponents with Entropy/Monster/Black Paladins as their bosses while Malta Gunslingers/Sappers/Titans will replace the rather lame Destroids later in the campaign.
 
 
I was torn between 300, 350 and 400 CP. But after reading this topic I settled for 300 CP so they have room to grow but they will gain XP at a 50% increased rate to let them close the gap to the "real" enemies in a reasonable time period.

First, welcome to the boards, Commoner1. Next, don't be afraid to test the points you allow yourselves: if you find 300 pts works fine, then use it. If you find more points is better, grant all characters a boost/rewrite/bigger base/free xp/whatever. It's whatever makes the characters fun for you and your group that you use. The guidelines for characters are just that - guidelines; change them as you see fit.

I find the number of points to be less of an issue than the power level you want the players to be at.  It is worth thinking hard about the split between skills and powers and where you want the players to be as far as each level of villain.
 
If you do want to use published stuff then I am with assault.  🙂

There's no time limit on edits.
 
You might not have been signed in the second time.
 
Oh, and starting with 400 points is easiest, especially if you are using published villains.
 
I like 300, but only because I'm a grumpy old man.
 
I don't think your question about Alpha and Beta level villains changes my answer either. 400 is still right.