GreaterThanOne

I use a Perception roll to notice and give general information. 'She is wearing a big diamond ring on her ring finger', and a Deduction roll to give additional information. i.e. She must be married, (+4) She must be married to a rich guy., (Crit or +10)She must be married to a multi-millionare or be that rich herself, that is a rare type Ib diamond."
 
Using another example I would use PER to inform the player, "You hear footsteps on the stairs" and Deduction for, "They are coming down the stairs trying to be careful", (+4) "They are too heavy to be your little sister's", (Crit or +10) "A heavy set person is trying to creep down the stairs, they are wearing work boots or some other heavy shoes."
 
I prefer using Deduction to interpret and PER just to notify the player and let them come to their own conclusions. I heavily use complementary skills as above including Science and Background skills to supplement Deduction.

Or use Autofire instead of AoE if that flavor is better

Selective AoE, with the AoE further limited with "first miss ends the sequence of attacks".
 
Or simply accepting that different games have different mechanics, as there is no concept of "minion" and many more combat options in Hero.

Sorry I forgot to prepend my post with "in my opinion..."   
 
Yes, Hero is designed with many ways to accomplish various effects. However, that doesn't mean you or your GM won't prefer (or even require) one particular way.
 
I, as a GM, would probably not allow this affect to be built as extra OCV specifically for Multiple Attack unless I heard a very compelling justification. Most characters in my games don't have extra OCV for fighting multiple mooks. They can just fight multiple mooks well because they're really good (i.e., they have a high OCV in general).
 
And if they do have some special ability for fighting multiple mooks well that isn't based around "being really good," then OCV seems to me like an odd way to model it anyway, because I think of OCV as being a measure of how good you are at hitting things in combat. If that's not the SFX, then another approach seems better to me (such as a Selective AoE attack).

So if this is just to simulate the ability of Daredevil or Batman to be able to take out crowds of mooks, just buy a high OCV (or generic levels with combat or martial arts).  The mooks are more combat trained than the average normal, but they shouldn't have a high DCV, which is why the superhero can take on several of them at a time in the first place.  The hero can't do that in the climatic battle against the boss, because the boss has a combat value on par with the superhero.
 
That said, there are techniques to fighting multiple opponents instead of a single opponent, so I would allow combat levels for that with a limitation "Only when fighting multiple opponents".  In real life that would typically be applied to defense so you aren't getting attacked from two different directions at once, but I could see putting those levels toward a Multiple Attack maneuver.
 
If you want your character to be really good at taking on a mob, buy an Area Effect attack, with the special effect that it is rapid bunch of individual attacks.

While by itself having a OCV 10 above your base may seem excessive you also need to factor in that the attack does less damage and your DCV is 1 less than it would be if you used the offensive strike.  The fast strike does 2DC less in base damage and the extra 2 point skill levels cannot boost that.  If you were to put the skill levels into increasing damage on the offensive strike you could raise it up to doing +6 DC above your base damage. 
 
 
In The Hero System just being able to hit does not guarantee you can actually hurt your opponent.  Unlike D&D or other systems you still have to be able to damage your opponent.  This means that your attacks against the real opponents have to be able to do more damage than those against the mooks. Martial arts are a good way to achieve this.  You can take a lower damage high OCV attack for the mooks, and a high damage lower OCV attack to use on more serious opponents. 
 
 
If you have a 14 or less chance to hit it does not matter how you achieve that.  So what is the real difference between straight having 2 point skill levels with a particular maneuver and CSL with a limitation?  Keep in mind the only thing that a 2 point level can be used for is OCV.  I cannot use it to increase damage or even DCV.  The numbers I used were off the top of my head and used to illustrate the point that you can get the ability to take down a lot of mooks without having to use specialized levels. 

If you want to build a character like Batman or Daredevil don’t purchase each ability individually.  Instead create character who has a flexible fighting style composed of parts made to work together.  Start with a martial art with maneuvers that allow him to alter his fighting style to suit the situation.  Buy a few broad skill levels and then pick up a few skill levels with specific maneuvers or weapons to round things off.
 
For example pick a Fast Strike and an Offensive Strike.  Purchase a few CSL (say about 4) with the martial art, and then take a few more (again 4) with Fast Strike.   This allows you to boost your OCV with Fast Strike 10 above your base OCV.  That should easily be enough to hit a ton on mooks.  When fighting the main opponent switch to the Offensive strike.  The Extra DCV will mean you are harder to hit and the extra damage means you have a better chance of getting through the more heavily defended opponent.  Your max OCV when doing so is 2 above your base.  You may need to use some of the skill level for DCV or damage so chances are your OCV is not even going to be that high.  You could of course use the Fast Strike on the main villain, but with its lesser damage it will not have as much impact.  
 
This character can mow through the mooks like they are made of paper, but is still challenged by the main opponent.  To me this is a lot better way to create a character than trying to find a way around the rules forbidding purchasing PSL to overcome multiple attack.  Don’t forget that 2pt skill levels can only be used for OCV.  
 

While you cannot buy CSL to directly reduce the penalty for multiple attack you can buy them for the attack you are using it with.  If the attack you are using is single maneuver or a single weapon simply by +6 skill levels with that.  When you make the multiple attack your OCV will be 6 higher so will offset the penalty for attacking multiple targets.  The only issue you may run into is if the campaign has limits on OCV.

Multiple and Combined Attacks have the potential to be super powerful, so the rules are built to try to prevent cheap ways to offset their penalties.

I've been doing a fair bit of gaming in Middle-earth lately. I ran a MERP game via Tabletop Simulator (there is a bunch of MERP stuff in the Steam Workshop) a few week ago, and I'm trying to get a regular campaign going. Using Tabletop Simulator is one option; a live rpg session is another. I had come up with a bunch of house rules last year. Some are taken from the rule book; others are modified.
 
MERP HOUSE RULES

UNARMED COMBAT (BRAWLING AND WRESTLING)
 
These rules are mainly taken from the rule book with few modifications.
 
1. Fist/kick (brawling) attacks use the Tooth & Claw Table (AT-5) to attack and the Unbalancing Critical Table (CT-4) for critical hits.
2. Grapple/tackle (wrestling) attacks use the Grappling & Unbalancing Table (AT-6) to attack and the Grappling Critical Table (CT-5) for critical hits.
3. All fumbles (unmodified roll of 01) use the Moving Maneuver Failure Table (FT-4).
4. Brawling and wrestling attacks may be used untrained without the usual -25 penalty. Use ST bonuses for strikes and AG bonuses for grapples. Alternatively, add ST and AG bonuses as per MERP rules.
5. Hobbits are limited to Small attack results. Trolls and Ents are limited to Large attack results. All other races are limited to Medium attack results. All critical hits are limited to A criticals.

MARTIAL ARTS
 
Martial arts cannot be used without training. Two options are available: 
 
1. Use the system described on page 218 of MERP 2nd Edition. These rules are similar to the brawling and wrestling rules above, except martial arts strikes use the Impact Critical Table (CT-9) for critical hits.
2. Use the Martial Arts tables from Rolemaster's Arms Law/Claw Law. Use the Martial Arts Fumble Tables in Rolemaster Companion I for fumbles.
 
Note: I use a table I found online for martial arts attacks, but that table no longer seems to be available.
I never cared for the martial art rank system used in Rolemaster. Instead, I use the number of skill ranks to determine the maximum result of the attack. 
 
Using the MERP 2nd Edition option:
Skill Rank 01-05: Novice Strikes or Sweeps
Skill Rank 06-10: Standard Strikes or Sweeps
Skill Rank 11-15: Expert Strikes or Sweeps
 
Using Arms Law/Claw Law:
Skill Rank 01-04: Rank 1 Martial Arts
Skill Rank 05-08: Rank 2 Martial Arts
Skill Rank 09-12: Rank 3 Martial Arts
Skill Rank 13-15: Rank 4 Martial Arts
 
Note that the MERP character sheet has a maximum of 15 skill ranks listed. Therefore, I will limit myself to those ranks, but adding more skill ranks is always an option.
 
Adrenal Defense is used without changes to any rules.
 
I will allow warriors, scouts, rogues, and barbarians to transfer weapon skill development points to martial arts skills on a 1 to 1 basis.

SIMPLE EXPERIENCE POINT AWARDS
 
Leveling up in MERP can take a long time in MERP if you don't play regularly. And keeping track of every critical hit and spell point is too time consuming for me nowadays. So I decided to keep it simple.
 
All surviving characters get 2,500 experience points at the end of a successful adventure, maybe a little extra for exceptional deeds (defeating a great evil, delivering the killing blow on the main villain).
This will allow characters to level up every four adventures from levels 1 to 5 and every eight adventures for levels 6 to 10.
 
Unfortunately, everyone fails from time to time, and the characters are no exception. Since failure can be a good teacher, all surviving characters get 1,250 experience points.

SPELLS
 
I have not made any real changes, but I have decided that Ball spells will use the Directed Spells skill instead of the Base Spell skill. 

OTHER PROFESSIONS
 
I have toyed around with making other professions for MERP, but I am currently thinking of using variations of existing ones instead. One way to do it is to use spell lists from Rolemaster instead of the ones from MERP.
For example, a Nightblade (RMC I) can be created by using a Bard or Monk as a base and using the Nightblade's spell lists. A Seer can be a Mage with the former's spell lists.
 
SECONDARY SKILLS
 
Right now, I am considering giving the players a free secondary skill or two. Players have a choice. Their characters may have:
 
A. One secondary skill with 5 ranks
 
or
 
B. Two secondary skills. One skill will have 3 ranks, while the other will have 2 ranks.
 
Characters may spend background points to acquire new skills or improve the ones they have.
 
And now for something completely different:

STAR WARS WEAPONS (!)
 
No, I am not going to mix Star Wars with Middle-earth. I have a science fantasy setting where knights (not Force users) wield laser swords and ride robotic horses. Since I like to make up rules for as many rpg systems I can, I wrote some up for the setting.
 
1. Lightsabers weigh 2 pounds but otherwise use the stats of the two-handed sword. Lightsabers use the Slash Critical Table (CT-2) for the primary critical and the Heat Critical Table (CT-6) for the secondary critical.
2. Lightsaber pikes weigh 4 pounds but otherwise use the stats of the spear. Lightsaber pikes use the Puncture Critical Table (CT-3) for the primary critical and the Heat Critical Table (CT-6) for the secondary critical.
3. Bowcasters use the stats of the crossbow but have the range of the longbow. Bowcasters use the Puncture Critical Table (CT-3) for the primary critical and the Electricity Critical Table (CT-8) for the secondary critical.
 

Re: Hey Underling!
 

 
One might also say it's noticing things that others miss, and interprets these minor observations. "I note you are recently married". "How did you know that?" Elementary - you tug at your wedding ring, as though you're not used to its presence."

Actually, GURPS has a perception roll first, THEN another IQ roll to understand the significance of the observation. But, again, IQ doesn't seem to fit for perception either!
 
Derek

Don't know how FRED explains it but GURPS (waits for the hurled rocks... no, safe) bases it of Intelligence because a single roll is used both to detect an object and to understand it's significance.

No...I absolutely REFUSE to let GURPS apply a good explanation to something in HERO!! There has to be another way!!
 
**frantically pulls gamebooks from the shelves**
 
 
Oh no....that's actually a decent idea...

 

 
 
And for you people kicking dirt on my silly BODY idea...isn't BODY more than just physical toughness? Y'all keep arguing that over GURPs....
 
But the mechanical problem with Growth and Shrinking....hmmm....when you're tiny you can't see as far, and when you're big you can see OVER so much...
Anyway...the size modifiers are relative modifiers...if you are 4 hexes in size, then you have an even PER roll against something 4 Hexes in size...

I believe that the followup to Champions Begins should be a bone stock basic Champions adventure campaign.  Simple base, simple NPCs, simple adventure arc with lots of ideas and options to customize.  Like "Dr Destroyer has an island somewhere, he's building up power to attack the world and the PCs slowly uncover the plot as they do other adventures along the way"  6-10 adventures with a bunch of adventure prompts for things like "love interest in peril" and "secret identity might be discovered".  You know, the Superhero classics.
 
Again, like Western Hero, if you're introducing people to the genre and the game, you don't need to remake the mold, just give people a chance to play the comic books and movies themselves.  You can get wild and creative after that.

Good to know you guys are enthusiastic about the Patreon idea. I'll pass that along to Steve.

I'm looking forward to Hero Games starting a Patreon account and plan to join it as a supporter, and I'm especially excited to hear about the Martial World supplement.

The Ultimate Skill/HERO System Skills has some good advanced rules for using Computer Programming, including for hacking.  I probably wouldn't go much further than that. 

You'd think so, and from outside, it's a great and obvious suggestion.  Unfortunately, there really isn't as much as you would think.  (As luck would have it, I was just re-reading it yesterday).  To be honest, the whole book felt a bit rushed an unfinished, as if there was a ton of content that was dropped or skipped over for various reasons (I always assumed page count limitations, but I wasn't there, so what do I know?).  There were rumors of an expansion supplement being planned even before release, but the unfortunate death of Mr. Scott stopped that from ever happening.  Don't get me wrong, there is ton of stuff...  "about computers...?" in the book, but mostly it's about SFX, cyber running in the net, presentation and construction of the net (which, as presented, might be confusing to someone with _no idea_ how computerized telecommunication worked to begin with), etc-- stuff very genre-specific and how to emulate what the authors saw as the most desirable parts of the genre.   As far as Computer Programming (the Skill) goes, it says "this is the skill that Netrunners will use to whip up new programs on the fly while in the Net" or words to that effect, without actually even going into much detail as to how that would work.   There are some interesting, Traveller-esque notions of computer storage, program size, etc, but for GTO's needs, there not much in there that's going to be particularly helpful.
 
I was really looking forward to that particular book way back when, but when I finally got a copy, I was disappointed.  Now don't get me wrong:  I would have _had_ to be disappointed; nothing could have matched what I had hoped would be in that book, what I really wanted to be in that book.  I could have had _volumes_ of HERO Does CyberPunk and been disappointed, so don't think the book is not worth a read!  Making matters worse, I had already purchased (and devoured) Western HERO by the time I snagged a copy of CyberHERO, and--- well, Western HERO was the best genre book HERO ever put out.  Let's face it: there's a reason that shows don't open with their best act.   
 
Still, for a book featuring input from George MacDonald, Terry Amthor, and Monte "Holy crap!  That's Monte Cook!" Cook, even objectively, I would have expected more. 
 
 
As to the problem GTO seems to be wrestling with: What are some ideas on simulating combat on a Netrun, well yes: there is information in there, but it's more of a "start here" kind of think without, in my own opinion, enough exposition.   Weirdly, it never touched on my least favorite method of doing this (which happened to be the most popular method under 4e rules for groups playing Cyberpunk games without the book): Extra Dimensional Movement.
 
It's my least favorite, but it _is_ workable, and if you don't want to buy the old 4e book, it's certainly a consideration: jack into your deck and "go to the dimension of cyberspace."
 
The gist of what Cyber HERO offered can be summed up as "treat it like mental combat" with the optional "treat it like real combat, and handle the return of a wounded online avatar to the netrunner as the merger of a wounded duplicate."
 
Not entirely accurate, but close enough, and without the risk of accidental piracy from the source material.
 
 
Good luck!
 
 

 
 

There’s a Cyberhero for 4th ed that might have some of that. Don’t know off the top of my head though.

I would include social hacking skills

In the Hero system special effect is the important thing.   Sometimes a specific attack may require an advantage or limitation, but its special effect is still the important thing.  When you take the no range limitation on the power it is no longer a ranged attack.  If I create an undead monster that drains Body with a touch, that is a HTH attack not a ranged attack.  It is treated as a HTH attack for all purposes. 

Sure.  A "death touch" spell, for example, might be defined as an RKA No Range rather than a straight HKA since you don't add STR into it.  Similarly, a lightsaber or a monofilament sword could be an RKA No Range.

Honestly, for thirty years now, I have assumed that this was the definition of the "violent action" bonus. 

Dirty Harry had to movies in the 80s.