redsash

Late coming in, but I'd like to comment on the original thread. I agree with @Chris Goodwin that it many ways it has become less complicated for all those reasons, but also the complexity has increased. That is, the rules are generally more consistent and clearer than previous versions, but wow dandy, there's a lot more of them! Complexity is good because it's robust and flexible. But still, like many I haven't made it through the 6E core rules yet; I keep finding little unexpected differences. I have only glanced at the simplified books (I guess that's Champions Now?) not sure how well those scan to a new reader... That said, I recently ran an all-newbie intro session using pre-made characters from the MCU Defenders and it worked very well. But going in, I drastically simplified the character sheets and the game mechanics. No END, no killing attacks, no noncombat movement, combined PD/ED, everyone at 4 SPD (except Spider-Folk at 8), no point costs or any math elements on the sheets. I basically just had them decide on actions and roll. Going through that process made me realize just how complex and flexible the system is, and in many ways, how it's still too complicated. All the different types of rolls is very confusing for new players especially. Roll low, now roll high what? Presence attacks what? Ego attacks what? I mean, there are two ways to break things! No, wait, three including killing attacks. You have to ask the GM which one to use. For a long time I have toyed with the idea of re-scaling Hero game mechanics to support one type of aim-high roll. Then you could let characters buy bigger dice for mutant abilities! d12 for 12 points base, d8 for 8pts, etc. (d6 still costs 5: you get a discount because anthropocentrism 😉

Same answer as the previous thread about Blue Eye Samurai cutting through a tree trunk: a tree has 5 DEF, 8-11 BODY, so 13-16 Killing Damage will do the trick to break it. Bruce Wayne kicks a tree down in Batman:Year One in three blows (at an estimated 8d6, which scans). Uprooting would be harder, yeah: Perhaps require a STR roll with penalty of -13 to -16 (somewhat agreeing with @unclevlad's calculation of 80 STR). I seem to recall a comic book page where Spider-Man (43 STR canonically) uproots a tree. But he probably begged a bonus for Clinging from the GM... To the pedantic thread: I live in a forest with hundreds of uprooted spruce and other conifers; even hardwoods will rip out sometimes in a hard wind. Some trees have taproots, some don't. Even planted fruit trees might not where an apple grown from seed might. Trees be complex!

Mizu had wicked trouble cutting through that tree while practicing focus; it took her several tries. The other ridiculously talented swordsperson in the story also spent some time mastering the same trick. Looked to me like a critical hit or a very high damage roll in the 2- or 3d6 range. She made the sword herself from strange meteoric ore that her teacher -- a renowned master swordsmith -- could not melt. I'd have bought it armor piercing. I long ago wrote up a version of Ogami Itto (Lone Wolf and Cub) with a 2d6 AP Dotanuki that he can get to 3d6 before pushing (+4DC Slashing Stoke). I figured that would be enough to cut through a ship's mast or a tree (5 PD, 8-11 BODY) ; feats he has canonically performed. (As well as cutting the tips from regular Katana and slicing heavy chainmail right off several opponents without drawing blood. Eep!) Alert Readers may recall that Bruce Wayne kicks a tree down in Frank Miller's Batman Year One, although it does take him a couple of blows. Figure 8d6 from STRENGTH 20 and Offensive Strike +4DC would crack an 8 BODY tree in three hits.

Designing an introductory adventure for newbies right now. I did all the characters myself so END is taken into account (weapons bought to 0 END where appropriate, END and REC all set to reasonable levels), but I removed any mention of it from their simplified character sheets. It could very well become a long-term slugfest (I am gating a bunch of MCU characters into a volcano arena in the savage land and dropping ninjas and giant frogs on them until they weep) but if so I will make noises about fatigue when I feel like it. Also removed SPD -- everyone is at SPD 4. I did the same math as someone earlier -- standard characteristic maxima put running velocity right at real-world Olympic record levels.

I present the Marvel MCU Daredevil's billy clubs: 10 21-point reserve, all slots OAF modular billy club with retractable cable (-1) 2v Stretching 12m, Variable SFX (bouncy throws and grapple line; +1/4), (0 END; +1/2) AP 21 1v +10 STR (0 END; +1/2) AP 15 1f Swinging 23m, Usable as Leaping (+1/4), (0 END; +1/2) AP 21 1f Deflection AP 20 5 Another billy club (x2 Items for +5pts) I put no limitations on the STR because he uses the combined club for leverage as well as striking, and sometimes the grapple line helps with lifting thugs off the ground, etc. Also it wouldn't save any points. Limitations are limiting. So he uses the Stretching (again no limiting limitation limits) and extra strength with his martial arts (having purchased the chain and rope/club elements) to simulate thrown clubs that bounce back to him and often seem to come out of nowhere off the bounce (watch the hallway fight from She Hulk. Hilarious), as well as snagging crooks with the grapple line from a distance, or just firing one half of the joined club down a hall and then retracting the cable. When the clubs are combined into a long cane for +20 STR, he still has enough points left in the 21-point reserve for 1 or 2m of Reach, or a bit more to simulate extended nunchaku (watch the Daredevil Season 2 rooftop ninja climax fight). Long range throws do less damage as he has to allocate more points to Stretching. Sweet! The swinging is actually not used that much in the MCU version. I bought it "useable as leaping" so he can bug out straight up (snag a roof girder then jump as the cable retracts; more of a Batman move really) or use the grapple line to mitigate a fall. Deflection is kind of optional in these enlightened times, but I put it in because reasons. Theoretically he could Martial Block anything within his 12m Reach. Optionally, take that out and increase the STR to 14 and make that slot variable. (TV Hornhead is 5'10 and clearly around 15 STR, but the comic version is Batman-sized and canonically has 20, so I was thinking of increasing this character to 18 for the better roll, but I hate half dice: the extra few points would mitigate that) Originally I bought this using Hand Attacks and some other variations, but this build is so elegant! And it costs EXACTLY as much as an extra 20 STR, while greatly extending the functionality. Very Daredevil I think. I want to buy all my HA this way. (You mean you CAN'T lift and throw with your staff? You should practice more.)

Reed Richards and Patrick O'Brian meet by chance at an auction of classic Stretch Armstrong toys. "OMG it's Mr. Fantastic" girl-screams O'Brian, "I am such a fan; a Fantastic Fan! Comin' in for a hug!" Phase 12, Plastic Man attempts a Grab attack at range and succeeds against the surprised Richards, squeezing him enthusiastically for moderate damage. Richards resists with his ridiculous defenses including damage reduction. Next phase, Richards recovers and elongates himself out of the inappropriate gesture of public affection. "Excuse me, but I am not really comfortable with this kind of..." "I have always wanted to ask: are those sideburns real? Cause I have to kind of concentrate to get my hair just right or it goes all floppy cowlicky." O'Brian spirals up and entirely around the less-flexible scientist and begins messing with his hair. "Sir I am going to have to ask you to desist. Your actions violate the superhuman act of ..." "Buzzkill! Would Stretch Armstrong report me?" O'Brian reaches one arm way, waaay across the room to snag a toy freshly-purchased by a buyer on her way out." "Hey that's mine! Give that back, I paid three grand for that!" "Testy. Say, Stretch, would you report me? 'No I would not, that would be a major buzzkill.' That's totally what I said, hey, tell that to Fantastic Guy here." He hurls the toy at Richards, who aborts his next action to reflect the projectile back to the owner. The owner critically fails her catch roll and takes 3d6N damage from the impact for a total of 13 STUN, 4 Body. She falls, stunned and severely bruised about the face. "Hey that was not cool!" "Sir you have escalated this conflict too far; stand down or face the consequences." "In your hat, Rubber Einstein!" O'Brian transforms into a tank and charges Richards, rolling over him and entangling him in ersatz tank treads. Richards tries to sigh, but can't inhale enough air to make sounds. He once again elongates out of the restriction, this time stretching towards the fire exit. "Try to bounce on me, eh? That's OK, I'm flexible." With astonishing speed, O'Brian springs out of tank form and rockets across the room to barricade the fire exit by forming himself into a medieval drawbridge. But escape is not Richards' intent. Instead, Mr. Fantastic snatches the CO2 extinguisher mounted next to the door and empties it down his opponent's disco shirtfront. "Today that applies only your morals, I'm afraid." "Tooo...cold...nooo...fair...can't...stretchy...stupid...science..." Richard pops open his FantastaPhone (TM) and hits speed dial. "Herbie, I'm going to need a level four containment module. I've got an advanced shapeshifter here, could be well into Omega class. I have him immobilized but be quick. Richards out." Next up: It's all in the reflexes... Brisco County Junior (Brisco County Junior, The Greatest Guns Who Never Were) vs. Jack Burton (John Carpenter's Big Trouble in Little China, http://www.surbrook.devermore.com/adaptationsmovie/btilc/jackburton.html)

One of the issues I have with the CON/BODY/STUN thing is that you have two conditions equating to temporary unconsciousness, governed by different stats and different mechanisms. So one can be Stunned or knocked unconscious, and recover from either with a bit of time, but only the second state is mitigated by one's Recovery stat, and even then only in certain narrow circumstances. (Try explaining that to your would-be D&D converts.) Looking at the (long) vehicle damage thread I commented on yesterday: many folk have problems with vehicles getting dinged up as they take BODY (and lose, for example, a little speed) and then suddenly exploding as they reach 0 BODY. No differentiation between taking 1 BODY and losing half the vehicle's maximum BODY in one blow. Compare to the optional disabling rules for characters. It seems to me that modifying the disabling rules could help both systems. If you take more than a third or half your STUN in one blow, for example, that could be the threshold for "Stunning" and perhaps could be resisted by an EGO roll (representing willpower withstanding the pain of a bruising blow, with penalties to the roll based on the amount of damage [hey that gives us a mechanism for bruises, too]). In fact EGO makes more sense than CON for withstanding damage effects in most circumstances: a strong-willed character will often keep fighting until they are dead, thoroughly unconscious, or well past exhaustion. BODY tracks actual damage, STUN tracks pain, END tracks exhaustion. Resistances resist poison. What's CON for again? Similarly with vehicles, where one or two body damage would not necessarily effect the vehicle's performance, but a "disabling" blow of a third or half Max BODY would cripple a system. Maybe a driver or passenger with the Mechanics skill could make a roll to resist? ("Sounds like that last hit compromised the baffle-gab flywheel. Gear down! Gear down before it fails entirely!") This would certainly scale better from unarmored motorcycles to large tough vehicles -- one (and by "one" I mean a berserk Hulk analog; see post in that other thread) can break a tank practically in half without compromising it's combat ability at all, then destroy the main gun on a second tank with 2 Body damage.

I am considering a game based on Marvel's Defenders and related shows (street-level TV heroes plus a couple of powerhouses) for a bunch of new players. A few have [shudder] D&D backgrounds but that's all. On a suggestion that I think I got somewhere here*, I have set all the PCs and combat-trained villains to 4 SPD as a default. They still pay, but I've removed SPD from their character sheets entirely. Since I'm writing all the characters, they are strictly bound to normal characteristics maxima unless they have a legit superpower or I have reason to suspect ridiculous levels of natural ability. Untrained civilians (or characters with a 20-point complication) act at 2 SPD (so, once for every 2 PC actions). Super-fast characters (there are potentially a few Spider-people around) can pay for an 8 SPD (letting them act twice for every combat-trained PC action). If there comes a real speedster I would consider letting them act at 12 SPD (three times per "phase"). Using Rapid Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, and high OCV and skill levels, Daredevil for instance is a punk-punking machine even at 18 Dex, 4 SPD (Lightning Reflexes and 2 Overall levels helps simulate the grace from an enhanced sense of balance -- he does everything at 15-). Luke Cage is very simple and effective but does not feel nearly as "fast". For more calibration: my Hellcat has 23 DEX (legit superpower) and 4 SPD with rapid attack and all the Krav Maga. Spider-Gwen clocks in at 28 dex, 8 SPD, but doesn't have rapid attack or martial arts (everyone says she can't punch). Colleen Wing gets 20 Dex, and Kate Bishop overachieves at 23. Even though both are technically unenhanced humans, Kate outperforms Olympic athletes for fun, has been suspected of latent super-powers in the comics, and I wanted to differentiate her from the 18 Dex Clint Barton Hawkeye (with his one borderline-super Overall Level thanks to extensive training with the late Black Widow). If my players like the system (how could they not?!) I will consider adding the Speed chart back in. It does facilitate such things as aborting to defensive actions better, and gives more granularity and strategic options to the characters. With everyone at Speed 4 the higher DEX characters can actually be at a disadvantage, since after acting they can't abort to dodge slower actions. *Ah, it was Hyperman's 400pt DC writeups. Brilliant Superman hack:

Jade Fury shakes off the effect of the electrical feedback net and, thoroughly enraged (up to 80 STR and 13 OCV), Leaps into the air to come down on the last of a row of three M1A1 tanks (Def 30, Body 25, DCV 3). 80 STR at 18m/phase delivers an impressive 19d6 normal attack. At OCV 13, Jade Fury needs to roll 21- to hit. Fury rolls a 9, well below half what he needed, so the attack does full damage: 38 Body and 114 Stun. (The GM rules the tank is not “inanimate”, since it and it’s crew is trying to shoot Jade Fury, and so it is vulnerable to critical hits.) The tank takes 8 Body, just less than 1/3 of its maximum 25, and ignores the Stun (what happens to the crew we will leave as an exercise). Fury rolls 2d6 for Knockback and gets a 6, so (after its -6 KB resistance) the tank gets driven into the ground for another 26d6 damage! Fury’s player gathers up all of his dice and rolls a pretty good result: 30 Body and … let’s not even count the Stun. Since Fury’s leap hammered the tank into the ground, the GM rules that the bottom armor took the second hit, so the tank takes 10 more Body. This brings its current Body down to 7. It also throws up several cubic meters of shattered concrete. The GM rolls twice on the Vehicle damage table and, hey, the tank is looking great! It lost 10 STR and 1 SPD, but what’s that to an Abrams? The GM rules that the enormous pit and the crumpled front tank armor provided enough give to spare Jade Fury the full brunt of his move-through, so he ends up taking half damage for 19 Body, 57 Stun, or a final 19 Stun after PD and his enraged 50% Damage Reduction. Ouch, but not enough to slow him down. Fury yanks free of the warped tank, then picks it up easily and Haymakers it down onto the next, undamaged tank in the row. Doing the math (30 PD + 7 Body - 16 DC / 2), this gets him another 10DC, plus 4DC for the haymaker, for a total attack of 30d6. It’s an Area Effect attack now, so even with the unbalanced tank it’s still an easy shot, although the GM isn’t likely to grant another critical. Let’s say he hits, and rolls just a little above average, for 32 Body. The first Abrams is down to 5 Body, the second is at 23. Another two rolls on the table, and the first Abrams loses its cannon (it’s biggest power). The second loses … ooh, it’s noncombat movement multiplier. But that 32 Body strike has further consequences, as JF has once again pounded the second tank directly into the ground. He rolls a 3 for knockback, so gets to roll another (32-3-6 for the heavy tank) 23d6, this time against the tank’s 20PD belly armor. Another 3 Body crunches through, and this tank loses some combat movement. The third tank is starting to turn and find a target (the driver was surprised and disoriented for a bit, and the other two are in no condition to fight back). Jade Fury spins on his heels, the first tank describing a tight circle that smashes into the side of the second, propelling it into the third. This is no haymaker; JF’s player doesn’t want to take a shell after that 19 Stun hit. But he gets a clean 25d6 attack out of the heavily damaged tank. He hits, and does another 23 Body and this time just 7x2=14m Knockback (he rolled a 6), which doesn’t damage any of the tanks further, but rolls them into an unusable tangle and exposes vulnerable underbelly armor. Next phase, Jade charges the second tank with the first tank. This time the move-through does 28d6 damage (16 DC STR, 18/6=3DC Move, 35-16/2=9DC weapon), and he rolls a whopping 35 Body. The first tank falls to pieces in the impact, sparing Jade further damage. The second tank, struck in the weak 20PD armor section, is down to just 5 Body, and also loses its main weapon. The knockback drives it into the ground but does no further damage to the tough top armor. Frustrated by his fragile toys, Fury picks up the second bent tank with casual strength and leaps over to the final undamaged tank for another 28d6 move-through, again on the vulnerable armor plating exposed by the capsized vehicle. He continues to haymaker the one tank with the other until one or the other falls apart. It doesn’t take long. Around this time, Jade gets control of his temper and loses his extra strength. After a moment of thought (his first in a couple of turns), he hefts the final tank onto his shoulders, jogs a couple of steps, and then leaps again, maximum noncombat, 144m straight up. At the apex of his jump, he hurls the tank straight down. When he eventually lands lightly himself, the crater from the tank impact is pretty impressive.

Hero models that reasonably well with complementary skill rolls. In your example with the vacuum, there are two things going on: the sensing and the diagnosing. As a GM I might not want you to roll both because it slows things down (and would give you a premature hint that there is a Mechanics issue), but I might give you a +2 to your PER roll or give you more information if you make the raw INT-based roll. i.e. the same roll gives you "The vacuum is straining, sounds like it might be blocked" vs "the vacuum is making a funny noise" Also, I am not a pirate, and I don't have that skill. Lots of people know that technique but don't have the presence of mind (INT) to use it. 😉 Back to sense organs: is there enough light to activate your eyeballs (including any superhuman eyeball buffs)? If not, then no PER check. If there is enough light, then the signal is going into your nervous system. Great, now it's up to your mind to interpret it, starting with some very basic pattern recognition and filtering. How well do those function? Well, that's hard to know, but the way we test it comes up with a number that we call "Intelligence Quotient" (Note that intelligence should theoretically be independent from knowledge, although again our tests are flawed, so there is almost always a hidden knowledge aspect to IQ scores.) So in other words, people who are good at recognizing patterns in sensory data are more intelligent, because that's the definition of intelligence.

Apologies for being terse, sometimes I have to type fast with kids hanging on my arm. Again the EB idea has been explored here and elsewhere, also the light level thing. (Yes Hero has not thought illumination through.) I don't find EB useful because again it doesn't scale and it's too cheap given that NightVision costs 8AP and CE: Darkness -4 costs 12 Images actually does it right for most things but it's twice the cost (yes you get a -1 Limitation but your AP is still 27 points!) That Radiate power (or should it be "Illuminate?") was based on a price of Images/2, which works out to 14AP to light up a single object as if it were in daylight. It shares some behavior with CE and Dispel, though, and really needs to be a separate power. Still models as an attack power though; that's bang-on. Point of the exercise 🙂 I was also thinking further, and I would make edits. For one thing, why does the light (in my power description) not help against *all* CE sight perception penalties? You can see a lighthouse through the fog or even snow. An Image in a CE: snow storm would still be visible at whatever bonuses bought with the images minus whatever penalties bought with the CE. Certainly we get no limitation for it: the -1 for "light only" is the same as the -1 for "single image only": says nothing about how it interacts with other powers. Also on further thought the Darkness power would be better named "Opaque Area" (although I see why they didn't go with that 🙂

There are at least three things going on during any act of perception: the physical sense organs (35 points for sight in this case according to Hero) the processing of sensory data through your central nervous system (INT) and what I might call inspiration or intuition, which has no real equivalent in Hero other than maybe a Luck check if the GM thinks its appropriate. Lacking common psych lims, smart people will tend to be more observant no matter what the light level because they have more efficient sensory processing. As a real-life anecdote, I had a friend once compliment me on my intelligence because I habitually close one eye around light sources when it's dark, so only one of my pupils dilated, preserving the night vision on one side. As a result my sight PER was way better than his around and about the campfire. Old pirate trick.

I think of intelligence as the product of a particularly well-developed and therefore sensitive nervous system. Evolutionarily speaking, the brain/CNS developed to process sensory signals. Only later did we develop abstract intelligence using that sensory processing ability. Certainly you can get very smart people who aren't very observant, but at least give them points back from the psych lim 🙂 Batman practiced in dark mazes with swinging boobytraps until he could feel every little thing coming. It's in comics and the novels. By canon, he also uses flashlights to read things in the dark. He also uses nightvision in his mask. He also uses misdirection to make people think that he has superhuman powers. . . Also we can hardly penalize him for a "dark night" No problems there 😉

Yes, even in deep space we get a Perception check at -4 because there are some photons available from starlight. On a dark cloudy night even clouds reflect light from cities many miles away. Eyeballs are quite efficient: that's why they're 35 points a pair. In a cave there may not be any visible or UV wavelengths because rock stops photons. No PER check. In the night under the darkest jungle canopy, there may well be no visible wavelengths, perhaps some UV at GM's discretion. I'd say no PER check with vanilla sight, -2 to UV, no penalty to IR or Night Vision (good as daylight to Black Panther). Mammals radiate heat, so even in the darkest coldest cave there should be enough IR bouncing off mammilian Avengers to illuminate like a very dim lamp (-4 perhaps?) Many animals can sense IR: snakes have a pit in their heads. Certainly a snake would be able to sense a human in a dark cave... 6e (and the Radiate Light power described previously) assumes that more illumination would not increase perception checks, but on reflection is that strictly realistic? I have noticed my (slightly nearsighted) vision improves markedly on a very sunny day.