jfg17

Personally, I found Champions Complete difficult to learn the game as a newcomer. I would suggest buying the 6E Basic Rules as well. Start there. Then read Champions Complete.

Thanks@Lee! The reason I ask is that in trying to learn the rules, I want to be sure I'm not missing something. The typos (inevitable ...) can be confusing in that way.

Feedback on the below would be helpful and appreciated:

A character has a multiform--a huge jaguar. After she transforms from a human into the jaguar, the jaguar personality takes over, which is sentient and loosely connected to the human character. So there is some loss of control, but she's not "Enraged." Like the Hulk in the recent Marvel movies, it's difficult for her to transform back into her human form. It's effortful and external factors can help to make it more likely (e.g., friends' encouragement). So, the idea is that she can change into the jaguar willingly, but it entails some risks--in terms of the personality change and the difficulty in transforming back into her human form.

I feel like this touches on a few different elements for constructing the phenomenon, but I'm struggling to put it all together. I'd value hearing how people might tackle this.

That's for the two big books, right? Not the Basic Rulebook. But correct me if I'm mistaken.

If anyone is aware of, or comes across, any corrections to the basic rules 6E, consider adding them to this errata doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZorYAciv9CVRrKTXMewK8berQW_rmniHv4m4sGkqFko/edit?usp=sharing

If I want to speed up and simplify combat action a few seconds for newcomers (including me as GM), how about:

• For normal damage, instead of calculating BODY by counting up the dice, use the number of dice rolled. (BR 6E, p. 101 points out “The number of BODY done is usually close to the number of dice rolled.”)
• For killing damage, instead of using 1/2d6 to determine STUN, use x2 (x1.75 rounded up).

@Panpiper and others in this thread (or anyone), can you point me to HERO resources to complement this helpful guidance?

• Do any resources have a fantastic step by step by step guide to creation of a well-rounded complete character: First do this, (consider x,y,z), then do this (...), then do this (...), ....

I own the Basic Rules 6E and Champions Complete, and I’d buy something else to get the guide, including a book for a different HERO genre.

If there are no official resources like this, is there other information you’d point me to here? Thx!

So, I have a plan!

• For me and my brain, the original Champions Attack equation and explanation of the Attack equation is more intuitive than that in in later editions, so I'm going to stick with the original.

Thanks, all.

11 hours ago, Brian Stanfield said:

I hope I didn't just make things worse, or ridiculous with my math.

No, this helps a ton--

What you wrote makes sense. I get your point about comparing Attacks to the Skills Roll....

I checked out the original Champions as well:

"The basic chance to make an attack role is 11 or less. If the character rolls 11 or less on 3d6, [their] attack has hit the target. If the character rolls 12 or more, [their] attack has missed. This Attack Roll varies according to circumstances. There are a number of modifiers to a character's attack roll...." The character modifies their chance to hit by their attacking skill (OCV) less their target's defending skill (DCV) and other modifiers. Wow. Of course. This is well explained, to my mind.

• 11 + OCV - DCV = 3d6 or less

And the related equation makes sense.

Then there's this ...

• 11 + OCV - 3d6 =  DCV you can hit.

Hurts my head.

I understand how these equations are the same with a bit of algebra. The problem is that written in the altered form, it loses its explainability to me. It's just a formula without any meaning.

My new and improved, proposed plan:

I explain the Attack Roll exactly as it was explained in Champions v1.

Combat flows like this, where OCV = 5, DCV = 7, as an example:

I say: What's your OCV, Joe?

Joe: 5 [assume no modifiers applied on his end]

Me: Great. Roll, Joe!

Joe: 9 (with a hopeful tone) ...

Me: You hit her [after doing the math using whatever equation works the best for me]

- Versus D&D 5e, this is nearly the same combat experience for the player.

- Versus D&D 5e, the GM needs to do a few seconds of additional work:

• Ask Joe his OCV. GM may know what this is without asking in some cases ...
• GM does a calc that's slightly more complicated than, "Is X greater or equal to Y?"

Feasible? A terrible idea? Feedback is welcome.

This may be a failing on my part, I'll readily admit!

Try as I might, I just can't "get" the roll-under approach to combat. However I look at the math, I can't see a story; I can't explain how the math relates to "real" life. Human beings have an innate sense for math, patterns and want information to make sense. The HERO-standard equation just doesn't make sense to this human being (i.e., me).

• Attacker's OCV + 11 - 3d6 = the DCV the Attacker Can Hit - I'm lost.
   
• I believe I can rewrite the above as OCV + 11 - 3d6 ≥ DCV. Playing around with the equation, I get: 11 + OCV ≥ DCV + 3d6 - the story is even more confounding to me this way though.

I understand the below equation is not mathematically equivalent to the HERO-standard, but I'm playing a game not building a bridge or sending a satellite into orbit. It makes sense to me.

• OCV + X  ≥ DCV + 11

"Hi, new player, this is how combat works. You have a certain acumen for attacking (OCV), but there's always going to be variability in how you perform. That variability is represented by the results of a 3d6 roll. Without training, armor or abilities, your opponent has an innate ability to avoid your attack. In the game that's represented by a fixed '11,' a baseline for anyone. Your opponent has additional defensive capabilities to defend themselves (DCV), which are additive to the 11. So, to hit your opponent, you add a 3d6 roll to your OCV and hit them if that exceeds their DCV plus 11."

I'm not an Engineer, etc. but I believe the alternative equation (OCV + X  ≥ DCV + 11) may result in slightly fewer hits than the HERO-standard equation, which I may adjust for by changing the "11" to a "10."

There's still time to pull me back from the edge of this heresy if someone can explain to me what the heck OCV + 11 - 3d6 ≥ DCV is supposed to mean along the lines of my pretend dialog above. Help me, before it's too late.

p.s. I'm going to stick with roll under for skill checks.... "Hi, new player, skills are a bit different than combat, but I think you'll find this makes sense. The more skill you have, the higher the skill number. Someone with 15 in a skill is more skilled than someone with 5. When you perform a skill, you need to perform within your capabilities. In other words, you need to roll your skill number or less. If you roll really low, it means you nailed it! If you roll high but still make it, it means you just squeaked by."

How would you recommend one use the free Fantasy Hero Basic 1.1.0 doc, available in the downloads section, alongside FHC and FH 6th Edition?

What’s the difference between, and how would one use, Fantasy Hero Complete versus Fantasy Hero 6th Edition?

Thx.

In the combat example, for segment 4, why is “22” subtracted from 13, why not “20” (Defender‘s ED)? Thx.

13 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

I used my PDF of the Basic Rulebook and ripped pages 6-12 out and created a "HERO in 7 pages" document that is the backbone for my "starter kit." I give each player a folder with some character sheets, campaign-specific info, etc., and these 7 pages to orient them to the basics.

Super-helpful to know about this example as I refine my plan. I bet that in doing this advance work, I'll learn most of what I need to run an initial game as well!

Yes - Seems to me it's a benefit to all HERO fans for more people to be enjoying the game--whatever "enjoy" might mean to them.

Thanks, all. I bought the 6e Basic Rules. Going to try reading them as my next step. I’m envisioning starting off with simple characters and character sheets, simplified combat,  getting practice, and growing into the rules from there.

I’m just speaking for myself in view of my own learning style. I’m trying to get back into the game, and this primer is one of the most newcomer-friendly documents I’ve found. I also have the Champions Complete book, and it’s a struggle for me to stay motivated to move on after page 12. Anyway, just wanted to say Well Done.

Is Champions Online essentially dead?

I saw this piece in my Google search results: https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/9131593-champions-online-returning-to-cryptic-studios-in-los-gatos%2C-california

I wonder if the original licensing deal called for Cryptic paying DOJ any ongoing royalties on CO revenue after the initial sale. Of which there is likely none. Too bad.

I‘d imagine that with Cryptic’s approval DOJ could allow a third party to build, or could build, an online service like D&D Beyond. (If there were ever consumer demand.) Online and TTRPGs seem to be blending in ways that might not have been anticipated when Cryptic and DOJ struck the original deal.

Sorry. This PDF posted by @Xotl, who is perhaps the author as well?

If I’m just getting started with the system and want to keep combat speedy while learnIng the rules, what rules can I skip without breaking the game? One idea is not to track endurance. What else should I consider?

Does anyone know who wrote the above PDF? Very well done! A great read.

TY - I have the latest version (Version 8 Update 251), so I'll assume I'm all set!

 Does HD work on Apple computers? If yes, what are the Mac requirements, and what special steps might I need to take to get it set up? Many thx.