AlgaeNymph

No mention of Menton? Not just for his ability to one-shot a team, but what he does afterwards. It's heavily implied in what's written about him that rape by mind control is his thing. To start with. Usually of the loved ones who any who speak against him. He'll even send you the videos. Here's this treat from UNTIL Superpowers Database 1 (p.85):

Not at all. The NATO part is due to how the Empire's run. Polities are pretty much allowed local autonomy, but the Empire's principles are ruthlessly enforced. The NPR part is said principles, i.e., the ones Istvatha grew up with when she was still a YA protagonist: left-center, and lots of human interest. Book of the Empress kinda goers back and forth on that. It mentions she's willing to humor debates (Knowledge: politics; p.25), as well as permitting disagreement among her courtiers (p.162). That doesn't mean she'll change her mind, stubborn and overconfident as she is, just that she won't enact collective punishment for saying "that's a bad idea, here're reasons X, Y, and Z." Her response to dissent is proportional (Integration; p.182), and there are even former rebels who now work for her (see: Abraxas, p.40). No, I suppose not... Like I said, edge case. I suppose I am a bit much "why Lyndon Johnson's Mongol Horde was good, actually." In that case, I'll...just put in my support for Lady Blue. ^_^;

Because I'm me, I'd like to bring up the edge case of Istvatha V'han. General Sherman-style tactics aside, the Empire's a pretty good place to live if you're okay with aggressive NATO/NPR politics. Certainly raises the question of who would rebel against cultural preservation, anti-corruption, abolitionism, and technologically improved living standards. (Hint: rebels generally aren't like the Rebellion from Star Wars. Think more Rambo 3.) I suspect a lot of folks from Earth-1346 c.2017 wouldn't have minded her administration. I wonder how the Champions felt when the world leaders of the time gave their heartfelt regards. If nothing else, I suspect Sapphire'd be feeling like Nighthawk at that point.

Ideal! : ) Even better, it provides an in for Key seekers who don't have on-tap divinations. Even mystics in Champions tend to be brutes and blasters, possessing the sort of investigative acumen you'd expect from bully boys. Oh, and Contacts; they tend to have skills rather than spells. KS: Signs, Portents, and Omens (which Fortean phenomena are a modern manifestation of) looks like a good skill to have. Besides Gumshoe, I'll have to see what works of Kenneth Hite I can get. Have his articles from Pyramid been put back together yet?

Of course. About what I figured. But, what happens when the leads go cold and dry? Suppose through investigation, and likely divination, the protag discovers the Key was taken by someone looking like the late Dr. Macabre. Obviously one would start with the psych profile for knowing what to look for. He was greedy for magic items, desperate for intellectual validation, and fought pretty much every Silver Age hero. Think about what'd match motive and search there; even someone being stealthy will leave clues. But, what if this one has different motives? Now we don't know what to look for beyond what tool they're probably using. So what traces would the Janus Key itself leave?

Technically true, but that's just deus ex machina (which was also how Cirque Sinister was beaten, I can't help but notice). What fun is that for an investigation?

So, for a campaign focusing on said reality-warping artifact; how would one track it down? Obviously starting with the leads, of course: who last had it (Cirque Sinister); who else was involved in fighting over it (most of Vibora Bay's heroes); where it was last seen (the San Sebastien Swamp, presumably near CS's base); etc. But what happens when the leads run dry? e.g., divination shows someone looking like Dr. Macabre has it, and he's gone to ground. Assuming whoever wields it is smart enough to hide, what sort of spoor would the Janus Key leave?

That sentence...answers all my questions.

For the sake of clarification, the defense I'm appraising is the V'hanian Broad-Spectrum Force-Field: Resistant Protection (12 PD/12 ED/8 Sight Group Flash Defense/8 Mental Defense/10 Power Defense).

Usable answers so far. Though I wonder what sort of attacks those would be? (And eye gouges are not comical outside of The Three Stooges. Be more like something you'd see in The Boys, or Invincible...) To expand on this question, would the same logic apply to Mental Defense and Power Defense? And should I start a separate thread for that (for the sake of future people searching)?

Flash Defense already counters the Normal Damage BODY, right? So why would taking Resistant for it even be an option? Edit: For the sake of clarification, the defense I'm appraising is the V'hanian Broad-Spectrum Force-Field: Resistant Protection (12 PD/12 ED/8 Sight Group Flash Defense/8 Mental Defense/10 Power Defense).

reads this, and next analytical comment Huh. I thought he was ace.

So true, and thank you for the assurance. To paraphrase what you said, online socialization honestly scares me. But I go through with it anyway because if I'm going to lose it'll be on my terms. That affirmation also helps. It really does... 😌

leaves thread a while due to shifting interests (and fearing angry mob) remembers thread and gives it a check... : O I...have a talent for hitting nerves without trying, don't I? ^_^: sorry

And that's the problem: I want to be the lord and savior, and I suspect a lot of other players do as well. You are correct, at least regarding the conventional understanding of cosmic horror. But remember that the overwhelming presence is scarier when it's benevolent, and especially when it's a hero's most primal fear: not being the hero. Or perhaps a player's most primal fear: not being important. And yes, PCs can kill V'han. She will die violently by sheer virtue of not aging; even without assassins there's always probability catching up. But while the works of a benevolent despot quickly crumble after their death, V'han did set up an ideologically loyal and properly technocratic administration. Or perhaps, to paraphrase Twain, I used the second cousin of the proper term. My brain works weird. I hope I at least raised a good point.

My claim in brief: V’han’s presence in the Champions Universe is so large that her metaptot is the only one that matters, and all you can do is serve or oppose her. While a worthy campaign idea, it essentially writes the setting into a corner. That said, I hope you’ll forgive me for belaboring the point but I feel I need to set up some explanation first so as to prevent confusion. I shouldn’t assume people know as much as I do on the topic. For those unfamiliar with the subject, cosmic horror is where the universe is dominated by a vast power that’s at-best indifferent and not at all friendly. It spawned by new discoveries in astrophysics, growing secular humanism, and Anglo entitlement feeling threatened. Earth is insignificant, there is no God, and we are not the chosen ones. To modern-minded gamers, the genre is now high-stakes pest control, often with an anxiety-laden narrative I never find convincing. Even squishy mortals can adapt to vast, uncontrollable forces; it’s called “disaster management.” And on the micro level the genre’s just chasing amateur sleuths with what are essentially scaly, tentacled bears. Avoid, or kill, or parley: anything besides helpless angst. This becomes exacerbated with superpowered individuals. For anything as simple as a maltheistic being the answer would be to simply punch out Cthulhu. Not so Istvatha V’han. For those unfamiliar with the setting (which I find common in any gaming community), Istvatha V’han is a pan-dimensional conqueror comparable to the Achaemenid Persians (which will be pertinently analogous later). Her politics can be crudely described as “NPR with teeth.” Her three main goals are cultural preservation, anti-corruption, and improved living standards — at gunpoint, if need be. Her management of rebels is comparable to General Sherman’s, and is the main point of contention. I always find myself questioning why people would rebel, suspecting many are regressives who wrap themselves in Freedom™ much as myth has the Spartans did. But going into detail there is its own thread (and I have no desire to indulge whataboutism fringe cases until I’m well-read enough to), and the point is that V’han, like the Persians, would allow integrated polities essential autonomy. And it’s here I’ll finally get to the point. V’han debuted in Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks, and was even right on the cover. The year was 2002 when we still believed in American Exceptionalism and Whig History. She was meant as a moral dilemma villain, with the aforementioned benefits verses a nebulous-defined Freedom™. (You can just hear the eagle screech.) Nowadays, we see that her rule would grant the Four Freedoms, the only losers being bigots and conmen, who today seem to shout the most about “Freedom.” Worth noting is how in official Champions Universe canon, at least in 5th Edition (written 2004), that the Champions drove her off for a thousand years in 2017, when the world probably really wanted her around. I wonder how Our Heroes accepted thanks from the POTUS. Or how much they felt like heroes, particularly come 2022 when the magic went away. My point is that today, V’han is as much of a dilemma as the Trolley Problem, where only the most insane ditherers (like philosophers) would choose inaction to keep their hands clean. The only rational choices are to either pull the lever and sacrifice one for the many, or attempt a third option and be complicit in the deaths of many because the situation’s set up to be no-win for four-colored heroics. Which finally gets me to the cosmic horror, and I thank you for being patient so far with my verbiage. (And won’t blame you if you just scrolled down.) Suppose you’re a superhero who’s less into face punching mentally ill bankrollers and more into systematic reform. Fighting corruption! Scientific utopianism! Magitech revolutions! Great campaign ideas! : D Except…it’s already been done for you. All of that is one dimensional message away. Sure, you’ll be well-rewarded for your work, and an ideal job, but it’s just not the same. You’re not the reformer, you’re just working for her. The campaign’s no longer about you. Or you could fight the Empire. No doubt amidst the violent aftermath you brought about there’ll need to be someone who’ll rebuild society. Someone like you.

checks threads oops... I'll have to remember to check my threads before posting. ^_^; Welp, as least I have more answers to work with. : ) Also, my sweetheart thought of a good reason to visit the ruins of Detroit (for earlier games): volunteer work. Wonder why I didn't think of that...?

That's what honest communication is for. Don't wanna be a jerk, after all. Though that's not an issue for me: I don't have players; I main use game settings to muse about possibilities. ^_^;

I assume there is, or there couldn't be any campaigns based around it. So far, what I can think of are: Adventures frequently happening in Orchard Lake Orchardsville. There'd need to be an explanation for that conspicuous implausibility, however. Getting caught up in whatever happens in Millennium City. Most plausible, but it's weekends-only. Also not an option in a 90's campaign without a shady means of transport... The students get nosy into the lives of people at school. Given that Ravenswood is, on the surface, a rich kid's school, there'd probably be a lot of white-collar dirty deeds to look into. Which I'm into, but am not sure about the rest of you. So, the rest of you, what ideas do you have?

For me it'd be Mutants & Masterminds, since I read the most supplements for that one.

Obviously. There are more powers for players. ; ) Think of the stories! A shutdown team practically writes itself. Or something. : p

looks at videos Yeah, that's the kind of corruption V'han would go after.

Which is why a better comparison for the V'hanian Empire is Achaemenid Persia, which also respected local cultures and prohibited slavery. (Or possibly the United States at its more heavy handed...) This segues well to my next point. The sad thing is that for some people, freedom and self-determination means maintaining privilege at the expense of others. We like to depict rebel groups in fiction as akin to the Returners, but they're much more likely to be akin to the Spartans: a toxic culture with good publicity. (There's a reason I keep linking to this video.) And now back to the topic at hand: Thank you muchly. : ) I'd also like to add an explanation my sweetheart gave me: "You may have all the funding the empress can throw at you, but money isn't the solution. Imagine it like this- you play Skyrim, and have a hack for infinite Magicka. You still need to go about casting spells for that infinite Magicka to do any good. Money is only valuable for what you can do with it, and even if it seems like there's plenty, there's always gonna be somewhere and someone else who wants it, for you to compete with."

I...haven't Can you elaborate? Particularly in this thread's context?

Oh, now I know what I want to bring up. Say you have a science hero(ine) who wants to reform and uplift society...except that's kind of the Empire's job. Are they relegated to face-punching? Or, as is my guess, are they subsumed into the government and they get to do what they wanted to anyway? But then where would they do it? Newly annexed worlds? But then where's the challenge when there's government backing?