bigbywolfe

Re: "Outsider" perspective on Hero System ________________________________________ Even your second definition of “universal” is, arguably, somewhat true of HERO. Because the basic mechanics are the same any character/item from any genre or setting can be interchanged with any other campaign. The result may (and probably will) be utterly game-breaking, defying campaign point and damage limits, demolishing the subtlety of one adventure for the brute force of another, etcetera. It is possible though, however unadvisable it may be…

Re: "Zombie Powder" Thanks, that makes more sense to me now. That may simply be because I'm actually awake now...

Re: Hammerspace How does that qualify as an extra-dimensional pocket? Wouldn’t an IAF or IIF with some kind of Transform and OIHI be more appropriate? Just wondering about your thoughts on that…

Re: "Zombie Powder" Both great ideas. As an after-thought, would there be a way to have the "zombie" have an extremely low EGO in regards to whoever raised them, or perhaps whoever they first saw when re-awakened, by fairly high against others? I'm thinking mostly to ignore presence attacks (maybe cannot even percieve such "attacks" as threats). Edit: I'm an idiot. Low EGO with EGO bonus, only to prevent Presense attacks. Maybe a limitation to exempt the "raiser" from the EGO bonus?

Re: "Zombie Powder" Thanks, I never would have thought of that. I am, however, trying to model it to look like the pseudo-scientific explanation, not like a complete automaton.

Re: Victorian Era, Mystery Driven, Paranormal Campaign… Help? I also posted this as a "How to Build" in the discussion section of the forum, but since it is for this campaign inparticular, I figured I'd put it here as well... Zombie Powder There are many ideas about where the myth of the voodoo zombie first came from. One idea is that it had some basis in reality. The theory is that the “zombie” is not actually a reanimated corpse, but an individual who had been put into a near-death, comma like state, and then revived. One theory of how this was done is, so called, “zombie powder,” a substance made from pufferfish toxin, which would essentially poison and paralyze the person, leaving them in a death like state until the effects of the poison either wore off or were reversed with a different substance. The reason for a zombie’s supposed loyalty to the master that “brought it back from the dead” is chalked up to a combination of psychological issues (especially if the victim was a practitioner of voodoo as a religion) and more likely, brain damage. The idea is that brain damage, caused either by the powder itself, or by lack of oxygen when the person was temporarily buried, would reduce intelligence, possibly interfere with speech and motor skills (hence the shambling walk and zombie moan), and most importantly, affect the frontal lobe, effectively lobotomizing them, killing off the part of the brain responsible for control of emotion and aspects of ones personality. So the question is, how would you build this in game terms? I’m not sure if you’d use the setup for poisons/venoms listed in the books, or use a BODY drain or something. What all would be linked to it? Simulate Death, UAA? Transform, with requirements like “must have negative BODY but cannot die” from “normal person” to “low intelligence/ego person with severe psych limitations? I know this seems more like a plot device than anything, and it would probably never be successfully used on the PCs, but I like to have write-ups for things rather than handwave them. In my case, this will be used by an NPC in a heroic level (although somewhat high powered at 100/100) Victorian Mystery with Supernatural Elements Campaign. As always, thanks in advance.

There are many ideas about where the myth of the voodoo zombie first came from. One idea is that it had some basis in reality. The theory is that the “zombie” is not actually a reanimated corpse, but an individual who had been put into a near-death, comma like state, and then revived. One theory of how this was done is, so called, “zombie powder,” a substance made from pufferfish toxin, which would essentially poison and paralyze the person, leaving them in a death like state until the effects of the poison either wore off or were reversed with a different substance. The reason for a zombie’s supposed loyalty to the master that “brought it back from the dead” is chalked up to a combination of psychological issues (especially if the victim was a practitioner of voodoo as a religion) and more likely, brain damage. The idea is that brain damage, caused either by the powder itself, or by lack of oxygen when the person was temporarily buried, would reduce intelligence, possibly interfere with speech and motor skills (hence the shambling walk and zombie moan), and most importantly, affect the frontal lobe, effectively lobotomizing them, killing off the part of the brain responsible for control of emotion and aspects of ones personality. So the question is, how would you build this in game terms? I’m not sure if you’d use the setup for poisons/venoms listed in the books, or use a BODY drain or something. What all would be linked to it? Simulate Death, UAA? Transform, with requirements like “must have negative BODY but cannot die” from “normal person” to “low intelligence/ego person with severe psych limitations? I know this seems more like a plot device than anything, and it would probably never be successfully used on the PCs, but I like to have write-ups for things rather than handwave them. In my case, this will be used by an NPC in a heroic level (although somewhat high powered at 100/100) Victorian Mystery with Supernatural Elements Campaign. As always, thanks in advance.

Re: Various Powers at Edge of System I wasn't trying to bash the guy or anything. I'm seriously curious about whether or not he has read the book yet. However, ignoring the most obvious advice (READ the freaking book and TRY it, THEN ask questions) seems more than ridiculous. His aproach was like asking a PhD complex Trig questions after mearly browsing through the text book and assuming he knew enough to understand the answers because he's already taken Algebra. It doesn't matter how long you've played, or GMed for that matter, if you can't simply comprehend the basic principles of the system you are now trying to use.

Re: Mind Control and Mental Illusions (in regards to Mental Illusion VS Images…) Um, not really, not at all. Let’s see. Use Image to make a ball of light in a dark room. Everyone can benefit and loses the negative PER caused by the room being dark. Now, make people “perceive” a ball of light with Mental Illusion. They get no benefit, the ball of light does not illuminate the room, because it’s ALL IN THEIR HEADS and if the MI is sophisticated enough they may even think that it illuminates the room, even though it doesn’t, and see what they expected to see in the room. I think that’s a fairly big difference. To use a more complex example: You want to make people in a bank think they are being taken over by a group of armed gunmen. Let’s try it two different ways… Images: First you have to pay for a fairly high-complexity of image to the Sight Group. But mute, gun toting thieves aren’t very scary, so we have to add Hearing Group to the Image. Now, everyone in the bank (and anyone looking in from outside) sees a group of gun wielding maniacs. What happens to the first person stupi,…err, brave enough to play hero and try to take on an armed gunman? He gets shot at, nothing happens, and everyone who saw it happen realizes that it’s all fake and gets the heck out of there. But maybe he just missed? Well, when his flying tackle sends him through instead of into the target, I think the Jig will be up... Mental Illusion: You buy MI with the appropriate AoE, etcetera, to make a mass hallucination. The MI you send out is “You see a group of armed gun men and one of them chooses YOU as a hostage”. Now, every person there who the MI works on sees someone pointing a gun at them and several other people as well. They’ll feel the gunmen gripping their arms, feel the cold barrel of the gun pressed against the side of their head, they’ll smell the gunpowder and see the chunks of ceiling tile fall when warning shots are fired into the air. And if anyone tries to play hero, they’ll be shot. Even if the MI doesn’t beat their EGO by enough to do BODY, simply enough to do STUN and percieve themselves as shot, bleeding, and in pain will probably make it harder, not easier, to make a break out roll. And what if 3 or 4 people have high enough EGOs or are just lucky enough to not fall into the illusion? They won’t see what the others are seeing, and when 20 or 30 people start freaking out around them they’ll probably get the hell out of there. And if they stay and figure out what’s going on, what are they going to do? Run around shouting “There aren’t any gunmen, it’s all in your head!”? Yeah, that will convince a lot of people once the illusion shows them someone being shot and laying on the ground in agony bleeding. Heck, if the Illusion is complex enough they may not even perceive the people who it didn't work on. In conclusion: I do not see any possible way these two powers could be considered “two powers that essentially do the same thing”. Not only are the SFX different, but the very CONCEPT of HOW and WHY the powers work are COMPLETELY different. Lot’s of powers and effects in HERO can be done multiple ways using different powers with different Advantages and Disadvantages. When determining whether or not powers should be combined or not it’s important to look at the different things that are exclusive to each power, not the myriad of way you can overlap almost any set of powers if you think hard enough. It's almost like sayg RKA and EB are the same because you can add "doesn't do body" to a RKA, so they should be rolled together. Can you make a RKA that doesn't do BODY? Sure. Is it the best way to make an EB? No. I also think that MC and MI are sufficiently different, but I’m at work and don’t have time to rant about that at the moment…but I’ll be back

Re: Mind Scan confusion

Re: Various Powers at Edge of System Just curious if you’ve read the book yet? As has been pointed out, over half the stuff you asked about is right in there, and much of it is even fairly simple to build (though possibly expensive). Seriously, if you had read the book I would have thought you were simply looking for ways to break the game. I’m a newb and I read it cover to cover before asking questions on here, and still apologies when I ask something that is blatantly obvious if I would have simply looked in the right section of the book.

Re: Hammerspace I may be thinking of the cartoon rather than the comic, but I thought the "Venom" symbiot (sp?) simply hid itself on the wearer’s person. I know in the cartoon it actually transformed into clothes, etcetera, but I thought even in the comic it was always “on” or even “in” the person, hence the constant mind link with the wearer. Of course my memory isn’t what it once was…

Re: Mind Scan confusion P.P.S.- Just read your last post, and your concern about how CoM affects PCs helps me understand your position somewhat better, but I think how it affects what the PCs are capable of is really the key point, and defining reason, behind why it was implimented in teh first place.

Re: Mind Scan confusion I haven’t played anything prior to 5th Ed, but maybe you can explain your statement that, “Before 5th edition we did not have Class of Mind rules, and didn't need them.” See, the way Mental Powers are described now, if you bought Mental Control without using the Class of Mind rules you could force a person to do something, make a computer run programs or send messages, make a bear go attack someone, or control a sentient alien spaceship. That sounds like a game breaker to me at the current cost. I don’t currently have my book with me either, but, as Hyper-Man quoted, “The basic classes include Human, Animal, Machine, and Alien; the GM can add other classes or alter these as he sees fit.” So, while Class of Mind is an actual rule, it states right in the description that these are “basic classes.” I’ve always read “basic classes” to be kind of a guideline, or starting point, to prevent the ridiculous use of mental powers I described above. Nowhere in that description do I see the statement that all Alien minds must be the same. I would think this would vary very much from campaign to campaign. “Alien” doesn’t necessarily mean “Extraterrestrial”. In a fantasy game you might consider a dragon to have an Animal class mind, or if dragons are considered magical, mystical creatures they may have Alien class minds as to not be easily controlled by the druid with animal control powers. It all depends on how you define things. In a Star Hero game you might have all the playable races have “human minds” (or sentient, biped minds if you prefer) to illustrate that mental powers work on MOST known sentient life-forms. Does that mean that you should never encounter a race that has a mind that operates so drastically different than ours as to be immune to mental powers? Sure, the GM could simply make every creature in that race have ridiculous high mental defense, but that seems like a costly and pointless way to present that difference. My biggest problem with not having Class of Minds is the Machine Class of Mind. The argument that “you cannot change TV channels, hence MCoM is pointless and breaks the game,” is utterly baffling to me. Obviously in many campaigns the ability to control machine minds would be utterly useless, particularly in Fantasy or any pre-computer campaign. However, I see no reason to create a completely new set of powers to represent controlling intelligent machines in campaigns where it would be applicable, when Mental Control is already there, and does basically the same thing. In some ways, Machine Class of Minds has an advantage; humans, alien minds, and (depending on your personal philosophy and campaign setting) animals are all generally considered sentient beings while Mental Powers aimed at MCoM can affect ANY machine with intelligence (ex: most computers/anything computerized even without AI), it doesn’t have to be sentient, self-aware, have A.I., etcetera. Try to look at it from a newbie’s point of view, (like I do, since I am one…). I’m running my first Champions game, and one of the PC’s player concepts is a “technomancer” that can glean information from and control computers simply by touching them. If the Mental Power section didn’t mention Machine Class of Mind, I’d be trying to build some kind of skill based power out of computer programming or something equally ridiculous. If I did think of using Telepathy, I’d have to figure out how to define it. “Okay, it gets an advantage because it works on computers, but it gets a disadvantage because it doesn’t work on people. So, do the Disad and Ad equal out? Is not being able to use it on people that big of a Disad when that PC will probably be the only character (PC or NPC) with that kind of ability?” Then the fun part comes. The PC’s get attacked by android-death-bot things. The PC wants to use his powers on the android thingies. Well, they’re not actually computers. But their robots, so their brains are computers, he argues. Yes, but they have A.I., are self-aware, and act like persons when they aren’t trying to kill you, so they’re people…kind of. The solution to this pathetic newbie’s problems? Wow, the book has classes of minds for mental powers, including Machine Class. Boy, that’s helpful! I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s sure as heck helpful to someone who hasn’t dealt with this kind of thing before. And before you say, “it should be listed as an optional rule then” I’d like to note that the common advice new players and GMs is to ignore optional rules until they become more familiar with the system. IMO it is easier for YOU to use your well memorized Meta-rules to drop things that you don’t see necessary in your campaign than for EVERYONE ELSE to not have a fairly simple and effective rule in place that they can learn to adjust or ignore as they see fit as they go along. P.S. I hope this post doesn’t sound harsh. I usually love your comments and insights, they make me look at things I’ve never considered about the system before, and you’ve been helpful and insightful to me a number of times, however, if I had posted this question a month or two ago, your first couple posts would have baffled me and sent me looking through the book, the FAQ, and the errata to find out why the Class of Mind rules were “rubbish” that apparently didn’t belong in the game, and I probably would have started telling other even newer people that they were optional rules. Just something to consider when you are posting on a “Rules Question” thread, especially if it is started by a newb.

Re: Mind Control and Mental Illusions Mental Illusion also covers ALL of the senses, while you have to buy each effected sense with Images seperately. For example, you buy Image for the sight sense only and make a wall suddenly appear around someone. What happens? The first thing they do is freak out and push on the "wall" image and pass right through it. You use Mental Illusion to make a wall appear around someone. What happens? The first thing they do is freak out and push on the wall and... they feel it. The knock on it and hear how it sounds. Sounds on the other side may even be muffled, etcetera. Sure, having a wall suddenly appear out of nowhere will give a pretty big bonus to the break out roll, but my point is, it's a fairly big difference between the effects of the two powers, no matter how similar they seem on a superficial level.

Re: Invisibility I know they are not the same. My point is that Invisibility is an exception to the "senses that it does NOT cover" giving it away since the power, by definition, is the LACK OF BEING SENCED. Even if the book AND FAQ didn't state that this particular power is an exception, it would be a logical assumption by the very nature of the power, yet it seems fairly clear that it IS an exception, so what is the argument? I never meant to imply that Fringe and IPE are the same, simply that the Fringe, and the need to buy it off, seems to replace the need for IPE on this particular power since the power is already an ovious exception to the senses rule.

Re: Resurrection, my players dislike it First and foremost, the best thing you could do is exactly what you said you don’t want to do; confront them Meta. Ask them what their problem is. Preferably talk to each of them separately, and see if they each have the same issues/complaints. Years of experience mediating between different factions, all of whom I am friends with, has taught me that the direct route, while often the hardest or most uncomfortable, is usually the most effective way to get to the root of a problem. Once you know, definitively, what their beef is, it will be easier to choose which of the sparkling suggestions listed above will be the most beneficial. If their only real complaint is the regeneration power the most obvious thing to do is to point out that no one dies in your campaigns anyway, so it’s a fairly useless power, even if it gives him more leeway to act rashly. If, after talking to them, you think the issue is truly just plain jealousy of your other player’s ability, (assuming he truly is that much better than them, at HERO or role-playing in general) then give them some pointers. Maybe run a mini-adventure with just them to allow them to stretch their legs and use their own initiative rather than relying on their defacto leader. If the regenerating PC continues to hog the spotlight, maybe you should help the others revise or add to their characters histories. Do they have any Rivals, Hunted, DNPCs? Help them flesh them out. You said you made their characters. Maybe discuss their character concepts with them and allow them to modify the characters slightly now that they are more familiar with the system. If they seem incapable of making their characters more interesting, use what’s there anyway. They have a rival, but it’s not well defined? You’re the GM, hence, the master storyteller of their world. You give the rival, (or hunted, etcetera) meaning and flesh out the back story for them. You said yourself you like the regen character, his concept, and the player who made him. Are you sure you are being at least somewhat impartial when choosing what risks they face, what plot-hooks you employ, and what not? Make sure favoritism is not, in fact, part of the problem. As for the regenerating, god possessed character, I have a few questions. How fast does he regenerate? Is it virtually instant regeneration, ala, Wolverine? If not, maybe you should consider using the hit location chart and optional injury rules with him. What happens if he has a hand lopped off? How fast does it grow back? It might be tough for him to be the reckless risk taker if he’s crippled until a limb or eye heals or grows back. Also, how common is the “anti-god-weaponry” you mention? I mean, are gods in your universe affected by any weapon that’s forged with a certain metal/element, or blessed by a certain group? Or are they extremely rare things that would only pop up as major plot points? If anti-god-weapons can kill him what happens if he is only injured by one? Would being injured by a weapon that could kill him negate his regeneration for that specific wound? At the risk of putting him in the spotlight again, I think one such weapon/spell/whatever should pop up from time to time. Either that, or make him take a more legitimate way to take permanent injury/death. Anyway, those are my thoughts…

Re: Invisibility Okay, so, I don’t have my book to double check this, so tell me if I’m way off base here. One thing no one has mentioned in this discussion is the “fringe” that comes with invisibility, which must be bought off for total invisibility. My understanding of how invisibility works with regards to being detectable by three sense groups is similar to KS’s, I thought it was an obvious exception to the rule. My perception was that the Fringe which naturally limited the power essentially replaced the three senses rule for several reasons: 1) By definition, Invisibility is removing the ability to be sensed; hence logically it would be an exception to the perceivable power effect rule, 2) Having to buy off the Fringe effect seemed to replace the need to buy IPE (again, maybe I’m way off, but that’s what I remember thinking when I first read it), and 3) The book says that the Invisibility Power is a partial exception, and as KS has pointed out numerous times, the FAQ clarifies it (IMO) fairly clearly. So, is my interpretation, or perhaps even my memory, ridiculously off base here? And if what I just said is not clear, forgive me, its 430AM and I’m at work…

Re: So, what do you need? I like how you wrote this up, except one thing. A detect, sence, ranged, would let you sense of find the object you want to control, but if you are trying to control a car that is not in your range of or line of sight you could make it go forward, backward, turn ectcetera, but you wouldn't be able to see where it was going. My point, I don't think that it would "put us in the place of the machine", I think you'ld almost have to have some kind of limited clairsentience to acomplish that.

Re: Victorian Era, Mystery Driven, Paranormal Campaign… Help? My mistake. I asked "does this look okay?" and read his answer as "you don't need these two things" not "you only need one or the other of these things". Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Re: Multiform Question This may be a stupid idea since I'm a bit of a noob, but could you do the NCC at the -1 level with an automatically resetting trigger, the trigger being "Waking Up"?

Re: So, what do you need? Sean: I think part of the problem is that the power that you are describing is not a single power. Operating a car IRL is not like operating a computer, in game terms those two actions take completely different Skills, so why would a power cover both of them? If you want to “Interrogate a computer, Re-programme a computer” that can be done with Telepathy and Mind-control with “Machine Class Mind”. Yeah, I know, lots of people have issues with the “Class of Mind” distinctions, but it’s there, and until it changes, there is already an established way to do it. I don’t see how the ability to control a computer can be compared to the ability to drive a tank. One is mostly electronic, one is mostly mechanical. It is simply two separate powers, just as it is two different operations. Likewise being able to “Open a locked door (electronic or otherwise) without damaging it” would be easiest to do by using the Skill as Power option and buying either Security Systems or Lockpicking as a Power. While you could use a power based on electronics to control or turn off an electric lock I don’t see any logical way to group opening any kind of door in with driving a tank or operating a computer. I know you are supposed to be able to create any power with the Hero System, it just seems that what you are trying to do is not create a power but a series of powers clumped under one heading for convenience and reduced price. I do like the idea of a power that allows you to control vehicles that aren’t primarily based on electronics (such as manual transmission cars, etc.) and I don’t think that it is illogical to ask for a power to do that without trying to hobble together something based on TK. I just don’t think that goes in the same category as turning a light on or off, or operating a computer. Perhaps some kind of TK with Fine Manipulation and limits, only to control vehicles? I don’t know, there should be a way to do it out there. Image uses END each phase you keep it going, you have to buy each sense it affects separately, and are limited to the range/AoE you buy for it. Mental Illusion only requires END to activate, then it keeps working until they succeed in a breakout roll. It automatically covers all senses including touch, can actually cause STUN and even BODY Damage if you are willing to pay the extra END for that effect, and at it’s weakest level of success can make friends look like enemies and can make non-dangerous items appear or disappear. Frankly I think I’d prefer MI, even if getting a mass hallucination going is harder. Will you explain this statement? Why do you think they are vaguely defined? Can give a source for that “published record”? I’m curious, since the more sophisticated an Image is the larger the bonus is for detecting that it is an Image. Maybe I’m just not understanding exactly what you mean, so an example would be nice.

Re: Victorian Era, Mystery Driven, Paranormal Campaign… Help? So, that device was a oneshot thing for that adventure, so it won't be used again. I have to ask, however, why don't I need Charges? I see in the book that it didn't need Reduced Endurance, but every example of a Flash attack as a Focus including Pepper Spray, Stink Bomb, etcetera, all use Charges, so why is my construct different? I did mean to make it an OAF, but I don't see how that would make a difference in Charges. I realize it's not a great write-up, it was done last minute, but I don't understand why it would not have Charges like any other Focus might have in a Heroic level campaign.

Re: Victorian Era, Mystery Driven, Paranormal Campaign… Help? How does this look for the "Chinese Chemist's" abilities in the cattle rustler scenario? 4 Fireworks Burst: Sight Group Flash 2d6, No Normal Defense ([Equally Common Defense]; Cover your eyes, protective eyewear, ; +½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (20 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Half as effective in daylight/brightlight; -1), IAF (-½), No Range (-½), Restrainable (Must have hands free; -½) [4] 20 Green etheral fog (AoE smoke bomb): Change Environment 64" radius, -3 to Sight Group PER Rolls, Long-Lasting 20 Minutes, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½) (92 Active Points); 2 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; -1 ¾), Gradual Effect (5 Minutes; -¾), No Range (-½), IAF (-½)

Re: So, what do you need? Good point. There would, presumably, be range issues, but megascale isn’t that expensive. I wouldn’t disregard the idea as a whole, but it would probably need to be better defined. Of course, like almost all things in Hero, some of it comes down to common sense and GM discretion.