Doc Democracy

Is it possible? Obviously not the powers system. Is it possible to get across what the core system is and how it works. I think, if we can, it would be a useful intro to any HERO book. giving folk a solid foundation on which to build the detail of the system that comes later.

Here is a challenge. Explain HERO in a post shorter than what Duke normally posts. Am gonna go and sit in front of my computer to see if I can explain HERO in 300 words or less. Actually, I will start a new thread on this...

Hoorah! ! I knew someone would do that eventually. 👏👏👏👏 😁

I obviously need to actually go and read something but, this IS the internet, so I am going to go in uninformed and argue a position! 🙂 I think you might be getting it wrong, based on what you said. Your first post said that the effective STR for CV calculations was halved. That does not sound like you are getting half strength damage. It sounds like it is saying using a weapon this way is inherently less accurate, as if you were under-strength to use that weapon. I think if you charge and punch someone you get full STR + manoeuvre damage, if you charge and hit someone with a spear you get full damage + manoeuvre damage, just with a bit less chance to hit. (Obviously I await contradiction as I am speaking without looking at the rulebook!) Doc

I had to read this several times to make sure that I understood. Then I thought, how many times when a knight holding a lance, lost it due to a collision? Probably a lot. Unless there were adjustments made to couch the lance and avoid the impact dragging it out of your grasp (harnesses and clasps etc) it is easy to see how you might lose your grasp of a weapon. Even if you hit the target straight on, you could lose your grip, never mind when you are moving at a tangent to the weapon that suddenly hits resistance... I think it kinda makes sense, though it is additional bureaucracy that you may not wish to deal with in-game. Doc

Yup, but you have also gone that step further and made it inherent. It is a personal thing (meaning I like it!) that I want such things to be time limited and so only allow such things when the END costs will be a real feature and their ability to switch off the feature limiting enough to warrant their cost savings in the always on. 🙂 Doc

It looks to me like you have the classic resurrection that we have seen in a whole slew of builds. Any one of them work here. The interesting aspect is the time variable and potential roleplay aspect. I think the plane jumping aspects are entirely SFX. I think every character should have some everyman contact with the Celestial plane. They should be managing that through their actions. When they die, they roll the contact and the result gives modifiers to how expensive, how long and how easy getting through the bureaucracy will be. If you fail the roll by three then things are three steps up the time and wealth charts and skill checks take the same hit. We are not talking failure here, the power implies the character IS meritorious enough to be returned to life, it's just how hard it is going to be to navigate the bureaucracy. I think it would be nice to roleplay this. Some officials may be so expensive to pay off, the character might have to defeat a monster in lieu of cash. I am channelling the 70s TV show, Monkey here... Doc

Here is a problem for me as GM. If it is indeed inherent, how does he shut it off? I think you need some mechanic that allows him to spend END to push it into the background or have images that allow him to project himself for others to see (and remember). Needn't cost a lot of points but it would square the circle. Doc

I had the telepathy for the circumstance where people did not even remember the details of conversations, perhaps not even that a conversation ever happened. Recently read a book with a character just like this "The sudden appearance of hope" by Claire North. Decent book. Doc

I guess Tryskhell that we are asking you to tell us how you see it playing in-game. An idea of the genre might help too. 🙂 Doc

I just noticed you did not ask to build it. I think this is more of a talent than a perk. Work out the power, see how much that costs and then make a GM call. You can write it down as Talent: forgettable. X points. Doc

Hmm. There are a couple of ways round this. If you were looking for something that made people not notice you were there, then you could take a limited form of invisibility. If you want to have conversations with people they do not remember then you could have a very limited form of Telepathy. The SFX of each are that people don't remember seeing, or talking with you. All the details of the limitations would come with how it performed with in-game play. Doc

This brings together this thread and the "what makes a complete game" thread. Could you answer those questions for HERO as a whole? It would be MUCH more appropriate in the complete game books you were talking about because so many decisions about the game style would already have been made. 🙂 Doc

I put forward Too sexy by Right Said Fred. "I'm too sexy for this song" abrupt end. 🙂

I would put my hand up. I think that there is a useful purpose in showing folk what roleplaying is, I just don't think that it is a good use of rulebook pages. I would also say that, given the vehemence of the discussion here, you better be VERY careful about your description because there are extremely divergent and strongly held views on the matter. I still posit that more material, written and video, would be better. Doc

So each duplicate should be built with the complication Accidental Change: recombines when it takes any STUN or BODY?

It is a tenet of capitalism that poor businesses will fail. I am content for that to be the case of companies selling widgets and media. I am much less comfortable when those companies are selling education, healthcare and critical infrastructure... Doc

I think you are now heavily into Duplication. It should be reasonably expensive as you want to multiply the number of actions you get in a round, all under your control, replicating your powers. as a GM I dislike one player being able to take more than seven or eight actions in a round, especially if everyone else only has three or four actions. I even persuaded one of my players to take his SPD 12 speedster down to SPD 9 and only that far because I knew he was likely going to need 2 or 3 phases of recovering during a fight every turn. Duplication also ramps up the number of actions per turn which can seriously slowdown a game and make other players get much less spotlight during the game. Doc PS: the problem with floating locations is that they belong to the person using the power, not to others. I might be inclined to charge more for locations that could be used by other characters. Indeed, the additional utility might warrant substantial increases but would need to think hard about numbers for that. Doc

I would caveat that. HERO is probably not for a group where NOONE has played TTRPGs before. Given a good GM with HERO experience, willing to put in some groundwork, it is no worse than any other game. Doc

Well, if all you are looking for is to misdirect the enemy, and give alternate sources of power, you could have bonus DCV with a limited short range TP (any of the images could, when images resolve into one, be the original character) and a naked indirect advantage to put on your other powers. Lots of things to do, once you define the gameplay you need. THEN you wrap the SFX round those. Doc

I tried not to as GM as it simply became a bidding war and, as GM, my bank balance was infinite. But in WEG there was no evolution of the currency to provide points for good gameplay. You COULD give dark side points for poor play and you COULD not restore Force points if they were used frivolously. Both those things caused petted lips and tears, especially if it was the third (I think) dark side point which effectively made the PC a villain NPC with no chance of redemption. It was close to a decent system. FFG (IMO) made it better. Doc

Well, it all comes down to how much of the mechanical system you expose. Wrap the character cost together and explain their Sword skill. Master Swordsman: you do 3D6 damage with the sword designed specifically for you. You can pick up any weapon and add 1D6 damage to that normally listed. You can use any improvised object to deal 1D6+1 damage. That would be easy for anyone to understand. You just happen to know how it balances with other abilities and can knowledgeably tweak. Players do not usually need and almost never want to look inside the black box. But it is what HERO provides that other systems do not. BTW, this particular conversation made me want to run a game where damage was a function of skill rather than weapon. For instance, Bob from the local tavern will usually do 1D6 damage regardless of the weapon he uses. Girondin of the Blade, will do 2D6 and 3D6-1 if he is using an edged weapon. An interesting twist to the usual and allows players to pick weapons with an eye to style rather than combat advantage. Doc

Well, I think you need to start by really setting out the game effects you want to achieve. The Mirror Image stuff is all SFX. The SFX is that there is suddenly three of you where once there was one. That is useful defensively because opponents need to decide which image to hit and the right one constantly changes It is useful offensively because powers can originate from any of the three points. Yes? Doc

It is amazing the threads that get us agitated enough to post! Who knew that HAPs would be one of them. I woke up to 26 new posts, almost like the old days.... Anyway, my 2 cents. As a player, I hate games where I need to burn experience to stay competitive. In those sorts of games both players and GM can burn points on the same contest. Hate it. TORG, WEG star wars, Heroquest (the Glorantha one) and a few others, can't remember if Fate and Savage World's do it. That is not to say I don't like idea of players having some narrative control of encounters and games. I played the FFG star wars recently and their force pool idea really worked for my group. "You want to sneak across the port to reach the ship you think the maguffin is in? OK, there are a few patrols, lots of droids and mechanics and one elevated guard post. You know a few of you are not good at sneaking. Tell you what, turn one of the white fate points black and we'll say you all make it to the gantry of the ship". This scene is a minor one. If they all make their rolls, the same thing happens, if they don't there is a combat. Players that like combat will refuse the offer. Players into the strategy of sneaking through the defences will love the chance to do it without risking it. Or I might get a counteroffer, where a player suggests a different narrative way through the scene. Not a way to win in big battles, instead an incentive to draw the players into telling a great story and deferring rather than avoiding pain. I prefer heroic games. I allowed them to turn dark points white by doing good deeds and acting heroically. Those dark points in the pool drove that kind of play from players who would normally kill prisoners and annoying NPCs. It is all about implementation. Duke? I have not yet introduced them into any of my HERO games but when I do, I will invite you to come to London to see how it would make a good game great! 🙂 Doc

You've made me smile twice in two minutes Gnome, thank you. 🙂 Doc