Doc Democracy

21 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Replaceabke batteries is one of a very long list of reasons I will use this phone until it is absolutely incompatible with cellular and internet service, period.

2 hours ago, GDShore said:

I hate cell phones, they are an anchor tied around a persons neck. 

And I thought I was old.  My phone cost £150 and I pay £10/month for unlimited minutes, texts and social media with 60GB data for everything else.

I think modern life demands an internet connection and a mobile phone is the most convenient way to achieve that. 

I fully expect the next generation of ROGs to integrate a mobile device in accessing rules and being an interactive character sheet at the gaming table rather than a distraction.

I have been in London for 25 years now, there has never been a wet year, not compared to the West of Scotland...

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

Hm. 5th and 6th editions explicitly say that Tunneling does not work through air or liquids.: it "only works on solid substances, such as soil." CC, with its abbreviated descriptions, does not include that specification. But I'm leery of taking that as a "rules change."

Hmm. I hate to go against explicit rule descriptions.  What about a "gate" teleport, with physical manifestation that passes through intervening space.  The SFX are walking through a dry passage...

Going to jump the shark....

I propose Summon.  Create the most passive, non aggressive Water Elemental.  It appears, goes to where you want it and stays there.  All it has is size.  Should be pretty cheap....

🙂

Doc

For the red sea style thing, I might be inclined to use tunnelling where the "tunnel" remains intact. If the radius of the tunnel is enough, you get to the surface, or you might give the headroom for free.

Depends on what additional use you think the character might make of having a u-pipe rather than a pipe.

I think there is less handwaving than in other things.  At least barrier is fundamentally about creating volumes of some substance or another.  The big handwave is allowing people to move through the barrier without causing it damage, everything else is about aplying the standard environmental effects of being inside a body of water.  We would not create a pool with the suffocation element from APG, we would say - "you are under water, here are the rules for that".    As I said, would need to apply the advantage of blocking gaseous transfer for barrier....

Doc

On 12/3/2023 at 2:50 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Honestly the pop culture acceptance and even embracing of geek culture annoys me.  It was our thing, our special thing we got to do and weren't bothered by anyone else.  We had our own language, we had our own references.  Now that Iron Man is cool, he's not... cool, if you know what I mean.  Losing our niche makes it less special and now we get it cheapened by modern advertising etc.

I find myself with less sympathy for those pining for the days when "our thing" was special and pointed at and laughed at.  I think I am happier with more people who are comfortable with superhero and gaming references, not least the appearance of NPC as a concept in random social media conversations.  I think there is more stuff for me to cherry pick and live off than in the old days when everything was specialist, expensive or home-made.

Obviously there are the issues like complete canon and I take great pleasure in educating newbies in the tyrrany of continuity.  I have been there, pined for completeness and then come out the other side, looking for complete stories that can exist.  I love asking those saying that batman should kill the Joker whether they would be happy knowing there would never be another joker story?  Some are but the majority want more stuff to watch and read.  Joker's continued existence is purely by commercial demand, not from any inherent flaw in Batman's priniciples or society as a whole. 

I want lots of stories, I want good complex series.  I am content for those stories to be coherent within themselves and owe no continuity to previous stories or to limit future stories by what they reveal.  I guess that is why I drifted into almost exclusively reading old stuff and Elseworlds stories.

However, the more people there are involved and interested, the more people there are who are likely to create in this space and, even if 90% of that is dross, it is still likely to be more than I had growing up.

Doc

3 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

It looks like Change Environment would be the best way to make an area just of water, but I am not sure how it would be done. Other ways really don't work for making a room or hallway fill with water without the water spilling immediately to other areas. Doing it as transform into water just makes water that splashes away. A barrier is just a wall, not an area of water and other than stopping someone it would not give any effects that water would give, such as drowning, and once it is broken it goes away.

Barrier in 6th Edition is much more than erecting a wall.  Indeed, the description says that "a barrier, once created, is a physical object that remains in existence until destroyed by attacks, the passage of time, or other factors".  it is an incredible tool to do a lot of things.  As such, my idea is to create a coherent body of water, you can enter that body of water as it has 0 PD, and swim thorugh it.  While in it you would be subject to the SFX of being inside a body of water (I might need to add an advantage because barrier, by default, allows the passage of gases etc).  You can configure the barrier to whatever shape you want - it also allows a certain amount of flexibility such as adpating to the surface (or fill a location). 

So, the barrier of water will stand free but once it takes enough damage, it will collapse into that much water and act just like a body of water that is no longer being held in place.  I think it is ideal to be used for this purpose.  It requires a slight handwave of SFX by allowing people to swi through it for no damage but the lack of utility as a barrier is more than made up for in other places.

Barrier is worth a good read - it is one of the powers that contributed to the expansion of pages but it adds a bch of utility that makes the reading worthwhile.

Doc

I would be content with creating a barrier of water.  I would be content with the SFX being "water" and applying the usual environmental effects.  It would be DEF 0 with enough BODY to soak up damage, should people decide to try destroying it rather than swimming through.

If the barrier was in a hole, then once the DEF of the barrier was overcome, the water would still exist and fill the hole.

Doc

I almost never use extra time so don't think I ever read that.

I suppose it is up to you but most of the stuff I have looked at, like charges and (in 6th edition) requires a roll, things are added and subtracted.

Choice is yours...

17 minutes ago, Ermenegildo said:

Ahh ok, I can not find a similar rule in the basic book of the 5°ed.

 

Concerning Endurance limitations, there is something like applying the limitation only in uncommon/common/very common situations. However, I have some doubts about how this interacts with the reduced endurance cost.

 

For extra time I should just halve the limitation, right?

And for Concentration?

Right, there were a lot of characters using this feature and it was formally written in in 6th Edition.  It is not halving the limitation, it is subtracting 1/2 from the limitation, so +1 becomes +1/2 and +1/2 becomes 0.

Concentration, in 5th edition, provides values where activation only is the default.  I realise that you are confusing things by considering an instant power (killing attack) like a constant power (availability of killing attack).  I think as GM I would allow you to take concentration at -1/4 the usual value.

Doc

1 hour ago, Ermenegildo said:

Ok, but how do I price an activation roll on an HKA that is rolled only when the blade is summoned and not every time that the blade is used? This is the part that I really don't understand in your proposal.

Limitations on HKA/RKA should trigger every time the power is used, right?

You can take a lesser limitation on the activation roll, if it is only to switch on a constant power.  Will go look at the details and edit this.

Later...

OK, the requires a roll limitation is +1/2 for 11 or less, you make no change to that if it is only a roll to switch on the power.

If that was 11 or less every time you wanted to use the power it would be a +1 limitation. P389 of 6E1.

2 hours ago, Ermenegildo said:

There are 3 axes that summarize the proficiency in the mindblade creation:

- Time required (Extra time limitation) from zero-phase to full-phase

- Endurance consumed to create the blade

- Activation roll for creating the blade

A novice at the beginning of their training may also have Concentration to create the blade and Endurance to use the blade.

You have laid out the progress itself

Obviously the core power is the one used by masters of the art.  It depends on how many steps you want but you add in, or increase more limitations as you get to the novice level.

A master has HKA, with possibly no limitations at all.  The SFX are that a sword appears in the masters hand, slashing or stabbing.  If the blade is parried or disarmed, it flickers out of existence and back in again, completing the attack unhindered.

Those less gifted need to spend END to bring the blade into existence, they may not always be successful and, if disarmed or restrained, need to make that effort again. Some even take seconds to form the blade, possibly even only when they can concentrate sufficiently to do so.

As characters progress, they buy off limitations on the HKA until, when all limitations are gone, they become masters of the MindBlade.

😁

1 hour ago, Ermenegildo said:

Because I'm interested in HERO only for its flexibility and crunchiness. If I were interested in a rules-light RPG I would have selected a game with a lot of useful narrative mechanics and with a low page count, or D&D 5ed which is way more played.

And I want a crunchy game because it helps with my suspension of disbelief, for example, when I play D&D (3.5) the magic feels "magical" while the mundane combat feels (to me) "plastic" and "gummy".

Therefore I would like a game that properly represents the lack of a weapon during a fight even if only for a phase. If the mindblade is broken or disarmed or dismissed because the personage needs both hands to do something there should be consequences.

Not sure you were following either my point or Vlad's.  The summon spell is the magic part, we were talking about the costs of getting there and what is easiest. A crunchy system should not mean you always go for a complex or difficult approach, it means you can, if you need, tinker with the small details of how it all works and rely less on the meta-game narrative.

So, if you can get a cost to use in a spell simply, then you should go for it....

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

BTW Welcome back! I hope you enjoy your visits here -- we're generally a pretty friendly and helpful bunch.

 

Anything you want to ask, just find the appropriate sub-forum and post. We love showing off how much we know.

And debating the finer points of whether we know less than we think....

18 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

 

Here's the Discord:

https://discord.gg/HcUJvJH

Ach - I have tried Discord so many times and bounced off it every time.  It feels chaotic to me and cannot understand its value over a forum like this.  I guess I am old now and cannot get my head round these new-fangled things.  😞 The shame is that the community is so small now that the spread cross different platforms dilutes the community further.

16 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

In most cases secondary stats were bought up from the figured values.   I have never had a character with a 20 STR that only had 4 PD.  Even REC had to be bought up.   A character with a 20 STR and 20 Con had 8 REC.  Even at 2 SP a heroic character will use 10 END per turn (4 for STR and at least 1 for movement).  If they have 3 or higher SPD they will burn even more.   If they have a 4 SPD they will burn through their 40 END about 30 seconds.   Going up to 10 REC means you last an extra turn or so.  That is assuming they have nothing else using END. 

 

Figured stats are kind of like minimum wage, they give you something, but not enough to survive.  You still need to buy them up from the starting values, so how is that any quicker or less mental effort?  Too me adding +6 REC takes the same amount of mental effort as adding +2.   
 

You made me go back and look at ancient character sheets that I have kept for decades! 🙂

What I found was that, in my group at least - I have no other reference - that secondary characteristics were indeed bought up, but only after we had bought up primary characteristics to the point that one secondary had already been bought down drastically and a second had reached an acceptable point and the gains from buying primaries could no longer be realised because the system forbade you buying down more than one secondary.  It shows that the designers had already seen that primaries were too good a deal and that the astute player would ramp up CON and STR until every possible secondary had been bought down, exploiting the value in that relationship.

The reason, in my group, that secondaries were bought up was because, after a certain point, the rules prevented us exploiting buying them down...

I tend to avoid these conversations because I am a characteristic extremist, well out of alignment with most others on the boards.  However, what Chris said resonated with me
 

17 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

My first two Champions characters were made using just the rulebook, without reference to a GM or an existing game.  I'm fairly certain they weren't viable in play, mainly because I didn't have a clue where the stats, including the Figured Characteristics, came in relative to any particular set of campaign guidelines.  In my defense, they weren't intended to be; they were me playing with the character creation mechanics in order to learn them.  (I'm pretty sure Feline came to about 180 total points -- this was third edition).  I showed them to my friend, who by then had been playing Champions for a couple of years, and he told me -- nicely, in case anyone was wondering -- why they wouldn't be viable.  My third character was as viable as a character could be that was created using only the third edition corebook and none of the supplements, which everyone else in the group had...

We had no access to anyone else, we had to learn it among ourselves and, like Chris, our first characters both players and GM were not viable in combat - they failed in multiple ways as we found out what worked, what didn't and settled on values for baselines in the game that the figured characteristics did not help very much at all beyond giving us vague suggestions that characters with a high con might be expected to have higher ED (but not PD) higher REC and much higher END than baseline characters. 

Unlike Chris, those unviabe characters were indeed supposed to be played, and they were.  We learned by making those mistakes and changing how we did things. 

Doc

 

I reckon I would allow real weapon for the basic mindblade.  It probably can be broken and while the maintenance might be different, may require something to keep it functioning.

It also means that, while it's manufacture is different, it is treated identically to any normal weapon.

Hmm.  So what you are suggesting is that we see superhuman increasingly get involved in politics, possibly to the point the execute an effective coup where participation in executive politics and governance is based on personal power.

This process, which the PCs may be investigating, has, in the shadows, been supported and provoked and potentially subverted by the aliens.  Driving human societies to this, driving them to take-up offers to be made super. They then manoeuvre elections away from broad suffrage to gladiatorial contests, broadcast as part of the bread and circus element of authoritarian societies.

Is that it?

So it is, like many narrative systems, very important to set up the contest: what victory means, what failure means and the consequences of each, with a handful of fuzzy edge elements you might throw in to qualify both victory and failure.

You say normal 8 round tracker. I presume longer teackers are easier for PCs, shorter ones harder.  I also presume that turning red sooner makes it easier because PCs get access to those abilities for longer in the scene?  Though that feels a bit counter-intuitive...

I think I did and got no uptake, the forums don't seem particularly active and I may not gave hung about long enough.

I was thinking of setting up a one-off, possibly using Sentinels for an arc of the Golden Age HERO game I am playing with my group.  I converted the characters but when I thought of the first scene I froze.  This first encounter us supposed to be the characters escaping from a lab where they had been getting experimented on.

Obviously the environment us important, lots of things that might interrupt or complicate the scene. There are the guards to defeat and a perimeter defence to breach.

So, the scene tracker.  How long? When to change G to Y to R? What happens if the tracker ends? Do I need another scene with higher stakes?  How long should that be?

I reckon this would become more obvious with experience of the game but I wanted the one off to go well. Any hints and tips would be useful, I want that first scene to get easy but, for plot reasons, not too easy (they are being allowed to escape but should not know that).

I was also wondering about whether and how the GYRO system might be used for the meta plot of the adventure.

Two heroes were captured,  the scene begins with the other heroes breaking in to free them, there will be three other prisoners, one of whom will escape with them, the other two will die/be recaptured. They need to get to London and return to their secret base.

Actually, this is all in their minds, the nazis are watching to find the location of the secret base and the surviving prisoner the captors way to communicate with the heroes. I want each scene to have the potential of giving away the secret, possibly using an additional GYRO counter.

Or am I being too ambitious? 🙂

14 hours ago, Ermenegildo said:

For a complete novice creating the mindblade should take one phase, cost endurance (to create it and not to use it) and require a skill roll or an activation roll, for an experienced user, it should be a zero-phase action without an activation roll or endurance expedition.

For me, looking simply at the game implications, a novice is creating a weapon that has all the limitations of a real weapon.  I would base the cost on whatever weapon is being summoned. I would do it this way because if, in combat you are deprived of a weapon, and you have another, you would probably be roughly as disadvantaged as the mind blade wielder. You would not change the cost of a weapon if a character had a bag on many things and just kept pulling weapons out of it in combat.

The experienced user simply removes the focus element.  He can no longer be disarmed or be deprived of the blade.  If the blade was restrained he would abandon it, move his hand, summon another and attack, no loss.

Ultimately the player gets an advantage because they have paid points for a weapon rather than something the character acquired through wealth, craft or theft.

5 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

Not sure even an OIF will work because and inaccessible focus can be taken away out of combat.

Granted, but I reckon that the question of how a character might lose access for extended periods of time, out of combat, might happen.

As usual, the response to a many of this kind of question is, tell me a bit more about how it works in game! 🙂

5 hours ago, Cancer said:

 

Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?

 

  Hide contents

A: Their lips are moving.

 

As someone who works in a democratic institute, I appreciate the humour, but have concerns that this is entirely the kind of thing that anti-democratic folk build upon.  If you get convinced that you can trust no-one, that there is no value in voting and that those who seek public office should be barred from it, then you open the door to populists like Trump, who tell folk that he is the ONLY one you can trust and we can all see where that gets you.

It is an insidious tendency and undermines both our democracy and our democratic institutions.  Once it is mainstream that you can believe nothing then there is a chance that you will believe anything.

I work with politicians every day and I can tell you that they are human beings like the rest of us, the vast majority of those that I meet have honest intentions to make things better, even if their version of better does not match with mine.  I do see their public presentation be skewed by party political stress and the fact the media constantly looks to highlight those that speak differently from their party and forcing the tendency not to deviate from the party line in public discourse.  Intheir work I see nuance and humanity, I wish everyone could have the same insight and engagement.

Doc

Hi @Ermenegildo,

I think the first question is, how easy is it to create the Mindblade?  How long does it take, how much effort and how much resources?  All of that can make a difference.  At the minimum, the weapon becomes OIF rather than OAF, inaccessible because while it may be disarmed, it can be immediately recreated in the wielder's hand, requiring no effort or delay. 

Doc