Hyper-Man Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hi Gang, For a while I've been quietly mulling over the idea of building starting versions (6e 400/75) of the Fantastic Four but I keeping hitting a wall when it comes to Mr. Fantastic himself. The abilities of the other 3 members are pretty iconic and appear relatively easy to translate recognizably into HERO terms. I'm not even too worried about how to build Reed's stretching related abilities (those are just a lesser variant of Plastic-Man's abilities imo). The real issue is deciding how many points to dedicate to his 'Super-Genius abilities of on the fly Gadgeteering' without having them take over the character completely (He is supposed to be one of the smartest guys on the planet and I think he's probably the poster-boy for the word Gadgeteering). Once I have that figured out I can use his combat abilities as the benchmark for the others. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four You could consider this build: Major Transform 12d6 (Components/Gadget Into New/Other Gadget) (180 Active Points); Extra Time (2 Hours, -3), OAF (Appropriate Components or Gadgets; -1), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Real Gadget (-1/4) I'm using it for my own gadgeteer. No real "powers", but he has a stack of appropriate science and engineering skills and the ability to adapt/build anything, within reason. For example, he couldn't built a fighter jet or tank, but he could put together a micro-helicopter or a comms headset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four I would also use Universal Scientist as shown in The Ultimate Skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four The things Reed can do with his Gadget VPP these days makes him a veritable god. I think he's still got the Power Gem sitting around in his closet just collecting dust. But, he wasn't exactly threatening Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier in issue 1. So... what kind of time frame are we talking about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four I wouldn't go too nuts over his gadgeteering at first. Get his other stuff right first, and then he can buy it up with experience. Incidentally, his stretching is pretty awesome. Either he spent a LOT of points on it, or he has some serious non-combat modifiers (or even megascale) going on. The FF member I've always had problems with trying to build is Sue. Until she got her force fields going, she was built on a fraction of the points of the others. That could, of course, almost work if her player was willing to spend extra points buying vehicles and so on for the group. In reality, it would probably be better to simply build her with her forcefields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Sue wasn't a player initially, so much as she was a Follower or DNPC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four re: Sue I think it's feasible to build a recognizable and playable version of the character with the option of using invisibility or creating force fields, just not at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Sue is almost always depicted as having the force fields right off the bat in any modern retelling (Ultimate universe, cartoons, movies...) But initially, her biggest contributions were as a plot device and occasionally the voice of reason/common sense. She really did start off as a surprisingly perfect NPC. Of course, given the number of men that have pined for her affections, she may well have some kind of love power too. Not in a literal granted by cosmic rays sense, but it's happened enough that it could possibly justify some type of power construct. It's saved the day more often than the Human Torches Nova Flame... Speaking of, what kind of power scale are you putting them at? AP caps/averages I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four ... Speaking of, what kind of power scale are you putting them at? AP caps/averages I mean... My initial thought was about the same scale as I did with the JLA which really don't have caps as much as sustainable level of effort. My initial thoughts about The Thing peg him with a 60-65 STR plus maybe a couple dice of HA for having skin that feels like real brick which would put him at about 15 DC pre-haymaker. I'm pretty sure I can match The Human Torch to the same scale as The Thing as well. Ditto with Invisible Girl. And with the increase in points from 350 to 400 and I can get a good set of stretchy abilities for Mr. F and keep 50-75 set aside for his 'genius'. But his level of combat ability is the real 'trend setter' of the group as he should be able to hold The Thing with a stretchy grab (at least temporarily). That's why I'm looking for advice on how many points I put towards non-combat stuff with Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Sue is almost always depicted as having the force fields right off the bat in any modern retelling (Ultimate universe, cartoons, movies...) But initially, her biggest contributions were as a plot device and occasionally the voice of reason/common sense. She really did start off as a surprisingly perfect NPC. Of course, given the number of men that have pined for her affections, she may well have some kind of love power too. Not in a literal granted by cosmic rays sense, but it's happened enough that it could possibly justify some type of power construct. It's saved the day more often than the Human Torches Nova Flame... Speaking of, what kind of power scale are you putting them at? AP caps/averages I mean... Sue got her force fields in issue 22....so she wasn't really without them for all that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Sue is almost always depicted as having the force fields right off the bat in any modern retelling (Ultimate universe, cartoons, movies...) But initially, her biggest contributions were as a plot device and occasionally the voice of reason/common sense. She really did start off as a surprisingly perfect NPC. Of course, given the number of men that have pined for her affections, she may well have some kind of love power too. Not in a literal granted by cosmic rays sense, but it's happened enough that it could possibly justify some type of power construct. It's saved the day more often than the Human Torches Nova Flame... Speaking of, what kind of power scale are you putting them at? AP caps/averages I mean... I think it's more of a case of the writers trying something for the comic. Being beautiful and/or kind and/or sensible, etc. speaks for itself - it doesn't mean you have a love power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Bumping for 50 year celebration thingy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Well since the VPP has changed in 6e (One thing I really like) you could give Reed a smaller gadget pool with a higher control cost, he can have one or two bigger gadgets then as he grows you can increase the pool and cc. Beyond that, I like the Universal Scientist with possible bonuses for Physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Universal Scientist......good stuff. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four My initial thought was about the same scale as I did with the JLA which really don't have caps as much as sustainable level of effort. My initial thoughts about The Thing peg him with a 60-65 STR plus maybe a couple dice of HA for having skin that feels like real brick which would put him at about 15 DC pre-haymaker. If you are setting the character's based at the FF's starting power levels, then you would be looking at Str 48 for the Thing and with considerably less resistance to harm- maybe 15/15 resistant defenses that you can later increase and harden. Starting out, Ben was able to benchpress in the 15 ton range- based on the Ultimate Brick rule that this is 75% of the character's total lift would place him with 20 ton strength which works out to Str 48. Also, his hide; while orange, hard, and malformed; was not as hard or rocky as it later came to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Although I am using the phrase "starting versions" I am referring to the idea of making PC (playable) versions of the modern take on the characters. It's the same way I approached Superman and the JLA, I am not attempting to be absolutely accurate to the original starting power levels. It's more like a 'reboot' power level (even if Marvel hasn't actually rebooted any of their characters or continuity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: Starting (PC) versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Here is very very rough draft of Reed Richards. He still needs skills and complications fleshed out. I decided to focus on core powers first since he seems like the perfect example of a character that would spend nearly ALL experience points in game on other things (more skills, gadget pool VPP, base, vehicle) besides increasing his powers. He's still a fairly capable HTH combatant but mostly in a defensive way. Comments and/or suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four no comments at all?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four hooray for cosmic pool elementals the unified power seems odd here if Reed Richards has more than one stretch power allocated, he losses multiple points in his pool to drains ? that is in odd mechanic the -1/4 lim isn't saving that many points anyway as the control cost already takes a -1 for elemental (stretching) scope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four re: Drains vs. Powers within a VPP (or Multipower) & Unified Normally, when a power in a framework is drained the rest of the powers are completely unaffected. Unified just means that each and every power will be equally affected. The Pool itself remains unaffected though. So if Reed was affected by a Drain vs. Stretching for 20 active points Any Power within the VPP will automatically lose 20 active points of functionality. If it was a 70 active point power it would now function at 50 active points. Remember, the Control Cost of a VPP determines Active Points. The Real points determine how many different abilities can be used simultaneously. A Drain doesn't affect the Real points or the Pool directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four no comments at all?! Not bad but somethings throwing me off a bit on it. Doesn't quite feel right. Lemme plug away on a build for a bit and see what it is.... Good work though, Stretching has always been a pain in HERO. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Not bad but somethings throwing me off a bit on it. Doesn't quite feel right. Lemme plug away on a build for a bit and see what it is.... Good work though, Stretching has always been a pain in HERO. ~Rex I think I found it. I added the (-1) Stretching SFX limitation as a common instead of VPP-only. It doesn't affect the overall real cost but it does affect how many abilities within the VPP can be active at the same time. Here's the correction: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Like most writeups, it all depends on the comparables. He seems rather slow, but I think your JLA write-ups were comparable in DEX, SPD and CV. We wrote up a 4 member JLA team for our son, and decided that there would be a 6, 7, 8 and 9 OCV and DCV spread amongst the group. A 30 INT for the smartest man on the planet might be light, although what does further INT add mechanically? From a point based perspective, +3 INT would give him +1 with all intellect skills, and cost 1 point less than the skill level (no, skill levels aren’t overpriced at all!). As a matter of taste, I’d flesh out Stretch (to provide a per meter cost as he will presumably allocate less points at times to use other powers).A few of the other powers could be noted at points per level (eg. Wrap, Punch, etc.). What’s missing? Well, more stretchy slots are easy to add – like - Enhanced senses for stretching to look around objects - Grabbing over an AoE, which he seems to do against groups of mooks on occasion - Extra STR to escape Grabs (when he inflates) - Extra running (bouncy rubber ball or extended limbs) - He seems able to Cling with extra STR sometimes - Hand Attack that’s not extra-sized - Maybe some damage reduction or extra negation when he actively tries to relax and be uninjured He’s fairly limited in how much he can do at one time, but that’s life for a lot of starting characters. He seems weaker than I would expect of Reed against mental attacks. With that REC, he doesn’t bounce back (sorry…) very easily. Gadget pool is obviously missing, but that’s a costly add-on. Overall, a nice writeup, and especially in remaining in the 400 point starting character model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four Good catch on the REC, I'll fix that later. Like I said earlier, it's a very rough draft. I wasn't so worried about individual slots per se (your examples are great!). I was really more concerned about the allocation of so many points into Powers that could otherwise be put towards INT & Skills. I debated putting another limitation on his stretching powers (like 'not in cold') but the only reference to it appears to be the 1st movie. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Re: Starting versions of Reed Richards and the rest of the Fantastic Four I think it's a little ironic that the team member whose powers* correlate best to 'water' is the elemental that is the most important to get right before working on the other three 'elements'. * It's arguable that Reed actually represents Air/Mind and Invisible Girl/Woman represents Water/Adaptability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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