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Dissecting Powers


Lucius

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After writing this for someone new to Hero to explain something on a character sheet I'd made for him, it occurs to me that other new people may need help reading character sheets - and in the process of dissecting a given Power, much may also be explained about how Powers are built and how they work in practice.

 

I'm hoping others will be inspired to present Powers - simple builds as well as complicated - explain them point by point, and then describe how they work when used in the game.

 

I'm also hoping this will prove useful to those new to Hero. Yes, I have a lot of hopes.

 

 

My first example -

 

The Power as it appears on the character sheet:

 

8 2) Going out with a bang: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments), Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; +¼), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼) (12 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), No Range (-½), Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase (-½), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) (-½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 2) plus Darkness to Sight Group 2m radius, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼) (12 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -¾), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) (-½), Instant (-½), No Range (-½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 2) plus Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) for up to 5 Active Points of Leaping (6 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -¾), Costs Endurance (-½) (Real Cost: 1) plus +5 with Stealth (10 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each which Recover every 1 Week (-1 ½), Linked (Flash! Bang!; -½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 3) 1

 

What it means:

 

8

 

This first number is the total number of Character Points spent to have the ability.

 

2)

 

I like to organize Abilities in lists. In this case I made a list, Gadgets, and this is the second gadget listed - that's what the 2 means.

 

Going out with a bang

 

I also like to give evocative names to Abilities; you will notice I have a quote or the like even for Skills. The basic names of game elements like Powers are deliberately kind of generic; the names you give them are what makes them specific and meaningful. Lots of characters may have a "Blast" power to blaze away at enemies in combat, but how many can say "Villain! Now you will face the cosmic power of my Stellar Photonic Blast!"

 

(Total: 40 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost)

 

This tells experienced players used to Hero Designer that this is a "Compound Power." That's when you combine several Powers to get the specific effect you want. This parenthetic Total means that all the Powers together add up to this number of Active and of Real Points. So when you use this Power, several things will happen at once - hopefully all too fast for anyone to react before it's too late!

 

Sight Group Flash 1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments), Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; +¼), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼) (12 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), No Range (-½), Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase (-½), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) (-½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 2)

 

This is the first full Power. I'm going to break it down.

 

Sight Group Flash

 

"Flash" is the Power used to temporarily disrupt someone's senses. This name is used even if, for example, the Power is a deafening sound that leaves people unable to hear or a radio signal that jams radar. In this case, "Sight Group Flash" means it disrupts normal Vision and also similar Powers like the ability to see infrared or ultraviolet. Flash need not be a bright light or loud sound, either; something like pepper spray could be a Flash attack. In this case, however, it's a bright light from flash powder going off. I actually gave individual names to the constituent Powers of this Compound Power, but the "export template" did not print them out. This one is "Flash! Bang!" (I think I was going include a Flash vs Hearing and changed my mind to save points.)

 

1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments),

 

"Standard Effect" is a rule that lets you avoid the random effect of rolling dice and just take a standardized result. In this case, it means the Flash will blind someone for only two seconds.

 

Hero Designer does not usually print Base Cost and it doesn't appear on most Character Sheets anymore (I seem to recall it was common in previous editions.) But so you know: Base Cost is determined generally by what Power you buy, and how much of it. In this case, one and a half dice of Flash that effects the Sight Sense Group costs 8 Base Points.

 

Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; +¼),

 

This is an Advantage. It defines the Power as effecting not one target, but an entire area, in this case, a radius of 16 Meters. It also defines it as an "Explosion" which means it is most powerful at the center and less so at the edge; so from 8 to 16 meters away, people are only blinded for a single second. Area Of Effect is an Advantage with a lot of options, and the value of it depends on the options chosen; see rulebook for details. The +1/4 means that the Active Cost is increased by one quarter of the Base Cost: so if this were the only Advantage (it isn't) since the Base Cost is 8, the Active Cost would be 10.

 

Trigger

 

Trigger is an Advantage that lets you prepare a Power beforehand and then use it instantly. Basically, it means using this Power does not take up one of your actions in combat because it either happens automatically when the circumstances are right (for example, someone steps on the tripwire) or can be set off very quickly and easily. In this case, a pre-prepared charge of flash powder can be pulled out of a secret pocket and ignited simply by tossing it to the ground or giving it a sharp twist (the latter might singe your fingers but not enough to matter.)

 

(12 Active Points)

 

8 Base Points, with 2 Advantages totalling +1/2, equals 12 Active Points. This goes into the total of 40 Active Points for the entire Compound Power.

 

2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2)

 

Obviously you can't have an unlimited supply of these packets. But I admit that the “1 week” recovery was partly because I was scrambling to fit the points budget of a standard character. Normal Charges recover on a daily basis. This is a Limitation, and the -2 measures how much cheaper it makes the Power; see rulebook for details on how Limitations work.

 

No Range

 

The packet is too light to be thrown effectively. You're always standing at ground zero. But see next Limitation....

 

Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase

 

Limited Power is the “catch-all” Limitation; you always have to specify what it means. In this case, someone not looking at the character is not blinded by the light. Of course, that also means they're not looking. I'm assuming that you'll close your OWN eyes to avoid being blinded!

 

Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc)

 

Conditional Power is another sort of “catch-all” that means the Power only works, or doesn't work, in certain conditions. So don't go swimming and then expect this to work.

 

IIF

 

A possibly annoying bit of jargon to a new player, this references a Limitation that's so common every experienced Hero player knows the acronym. It means “Inobvious Inaccessible Focus” and means the Power is associated with a physical object or substance – that's what “Focus” means. Inobvious means onlookers probably won't spot it even in use and inaccessible means it's not normally possible for someone to grab it away. It COULD be taken away if you're restrained and searched, however.

 

(Real Cost: 2)

 

The cost in real character points of the Power. Part of the total Real Cost of 8 for the entire Compound Power.

 

Plus

 

Another clue you're looking at a Compound Power. In this case I neglected to do what I usually try to remember to do; I try to Bold the "Plus" to make it clear where one Power ends and the next begins.

 

Darkness to Sight Group, 2m radius

 

The name for this Power is "Smoke." Besides the flash, there's a cloud of smoke created. It doesn't need the Area Effect Advantage because Darkness, by default, covers an area; in this case, it was bought to cover a 2 meter radius. Darkness creates an area that blocks certain senses or sense groups; there could be Darkness to Hearing (silence field) or Darkness to Mental Group (psionic camouflage)

 

The Advantages and Limitations are mostly the same as for Flash! Bang! With two exceptions. One is the Limitation “Linked.” Linked says that a Power can only be used at the same time as another Power. In this case, Smoke is linked to Flash!Bang! Because you can't get the cloud of smoke separate from the flash. The other exception is the Limitation “Instant.” Applied to a Power that might normally last a while, Instant means it only lasts for one of the character's phases. So the cloud of smoke only lasts long enough for the character to take a single action.

 

Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) for up to 5 Active Points of Leaping (6 Active Points);

 

Yeah, this could get confusing. This is a “Naked Advantage” in other words, an Advantage bought separately from the Power it modifies. Actually it's two Advantages, both for Leaping. Enough Advantage has been bought to modify 5 Active Points of Leaping, which equals a 5 meter leap from a standing start or 10 meters with at least a short run. Trigger makes it a “free movement” that doesn't cost an action, and Invisible Power Effects means it's silent (probably covered by the “Bang!”) and otherwise undetectable, that is, no one will observe that the character has left the small cloud of smoke. When it clears, everyone says “Where did he go?!” I did make one error I think on this Power; it has the Limitation “Costs END” when I think a Naked Advantage is supposed to cost ENDurance anyway (and thus can't take a Limitation for it.) Oops...

 

+5 with Stealth

 

The character already has Stealth. This gives a +5 to sneak away. Note that the Charges in this case say “Continuing Charges” and have a lower Limitation value. That's because the +5 lasts for a whole Turn, not just a single Phase. Hopefully that's long enough to finish your disappearing act and get away clean – the whole point of this complex Compound Power build.

 

And finally,

 

1

 

The last number is the END cost. This ability costs all of 1 ENDurance point.

 

 

So, how does it work when you use it?

 

First, you announce out of character that you're using the Power - “I'm going out with a bang!” or “I'm making my Great Escape!” or whatever you decide to call it. This doesn't have to be on your “turn.” You may have to make a DEX roll if timing is important, say if someone has announced they are attacking you and you want to try this before they hit.

 

Everyone within 16 meters is blind for a segment; everyone in 8 meters is blind for 2 segments. Note that some people have Flash Defense and won't be effected, and others may use different senses. So don't try this against Daredevil and expect it to work as well.

 

A cloud of smoke appears where you are. It will last until the end of your phase if you did this during your phase, or the end of your next phase otherwise. So, from 4 to 8 seconds.

 

You immediately move up to 5 meters without anyone noticing. (Even Daredevil was probably confused by the POP of the flash powder igniting.) If you could have had a running start, were already moving, etc. make that up to 10 meters. It could also be up to 5 meters straight up, if there's anything up there to catch with an Acrobatics roll or a roof to leap onto. They usually don't expect that. Note that this is optional: you CAN set off the flashbang and just stand there, if for some reason you want to.

 

If it was your phase and you had not taken an action yet, you may immediately start Running at your Full Movement. Long gone by the time the smoke clears you hope.

 

You get a +5 to Stealth Rolls for the next 12 segments – probably 4 of your phases, if I remember the character's SPD right. That's useful if you plan to take that Full Move since that's a penalty to your Stealth Roll!

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Watch me pull a palindromedary out of a hat

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

And people simply cannot understand why others think that HERO is complicated! :)

 

I think this is really useful Lucius, I really do - it also highlights again to me the need for a playing sheet and a working sheet. How much of that architecture does the player really need during play? Much better to have a plain text description.

 

Rep for the public service activity though...[when I am allowed to]

 

Doc

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

And people simply cannot understand why others think that HERO is complicated! :)

 

I think this is really useful Lucius, I really do - it also highlights again to me the need for a playing sheet and a working sheet. How much of that architecture does the player really need during play?

 

Doc

 

Most of it actually, with the exception of things like Active or Real Cost.

 

 

 

The player is going to need or want that information, either tactically (things like Area Effect and Duration) or imaginatively (even if you think the player doesn't need to know that the power can be taken away and under what circumstances - and I suspect most players will want to know that - the fact that it takes the form of a little packet of flash powder normally hidden in a concealed pocket helps to visualize what's going on in the game world.)

 

Granted, "plaintext" may make it easier to understand - and take more space. Consider:

 

The Power as it appears on the character sheet:

 

8 2) Going out with a bang: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments), Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; +¼), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼) (12 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), No Range (-½), Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase (-½), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) (-½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 2) plus Darkness to Sight Group 2m radius, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼) (12 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -¾), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) (-½), Instant (-½), No Range (-½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 2) plus Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +¼), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) for up to 5 Active Points of Leaping (6 Active Points); 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-2), Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -¾), Costs Endurance (-½) (Real Cost: 1) plus +5 with Stealth (10 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each which Recover every 1 Week (-1 ½), Linked (Flash! Bang!; -½), IIF (-¼) (Real Cost: 3) 1

 

 

The Power as I described it plaintext:

 

First, you announce out of character that you're using the Power - “I'm going out with a bang!” or “I'm making my Great Escape!” or whatever you decide to call it. This doesn't have to be on your “turn.” You may have to make a DEX roll if timing is important, say if someone has announced they are attacking you and you want to try this before they hit.

 

Everyone within 16 meters is blind for a segment; everyone in 8 meters is blind for 2 segments. Note that some people have Flash Defense and won't be effected, and others may use different senses. So don't try this against Daredevil and expect it to work as well.

 

A cloud of smoke appears where you are. It will last until the end of your phase if you did this during your phase, or the end of your next phase otherwise. So, from 4 to 8 seconds.

 

You immediately move up to 5 meters without anyone noticing. (Even Daredevil was probably confused by the POP of the flash powder igniting.) If you could have had a running start, were already moving, etc. make that up to 10 meters. It could also be up to 5 meters straight up, if there's anything up there to catch with an Acrobatics roll or a roof to leap onto. They usually don't expect that. Note that this is optional: you CAN set off the flashbang and just stand there, if for some reason you want to.

 

If it was your phase and you had not taken an action yet, you may immediately start Running at your Full Movement. Long gone by the time the smoke clears you hope.

 

You get a +5 to Stealth Rolls for the next 12 segments – probably 4 of your phases, if I remember the character's SPD right. That's useful if you plan to take that Full Move since that's a penalty to your Stealth Roll!

 

 

Check me on this but I count 15 lines in the former and 23 in the latter - and that's DESPITE the fact that the former includes a lot of redundant information in the form of modifiers that are the same from one constituent Power to the next. Then again, I could have cut some "fluff" from the plaintext too.

 

 

So in short, the player WILL need most of that information - it's just a question of how best to present it, and yes, you have a point that "plaintext" may often be better than the arcane code we usually use.

 

But I'll also challenge the implication about Hero being complicated. Maybe it is - but having played some 4th edition D&D, I maintain that anyone who says it is any MORE complicated than that is in my opinion mistaken.

 

edit: and one of the people to reputize me is someone I know is a new player! You and I are right about one thing we're in agreement on, what I'm trying to do here is useful and worthwhile.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is urging me to finish this and hurry to my appointment

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

I would say a plaintext description could be tighter if you did not have all of the tactical advice in there. It would also mean that the impression people get when they read the character sheet is of cool stuff rather than theoretical physics...

 

The architecture is necessary but not in most gameplay situations...

 

Doc

 

PS: sorry, my hobbyhorse...

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

If writeups like that were my first intro to Hero System, I'd probably run screaming from the room. Explanation and clarification is definitely a good idea. I think a character sheet with a "plain English" explanation next to each ability (well, each one that isn't self-explanatory, like "IR vision" or "power defense") would be a good idea. The above writeup, with the costs taken out:

2) Going out with a bang: Sight Group Flash 1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments), Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; ), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week , No Range, Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase , Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) , IIF (Real Cost: 2) plus Darkness to Sight Group 2m radius, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; ) ; 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week , Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value), Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) , Instant, No Range , IIF plus Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible) for up to 5 Active Points of Leaping ; 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week , Linked, Costs Endurance plus +5 with Stealth; 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each which Recover every 1 Week ,Linked, IIF

 

God, that's still awful. "This power blinds people for a couple seconds, leaving a 16 m radius cloud of smoke that lingers for one turn, enabling the user to sneak or leap away without being detected--it can be set to go off on a particular trigger, and may be used twice a day--it uses small, inobvious containers which do not resemble grenades"--a little better. Throw in a few more explanations, i think it could still be about half as long.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

God' date=' that's still awful. "This power blinds people for a couple seconds, leaving a 16 m radius cloud of smoke that lingers for one turn, enabling the user to sneak or leap away without being detected--it can be set to go off on a particular trigger, and may be used twice a day--it uses small, inobvious containers which do not resemble grenades"--a little better. Throw in a few more explanations, i think it could still be about half as long.[/quote']

 

"... leaving a 2m radius smoke cloud that lingers a few more seconds, enabling the user ... and may be used twice-- it uses small, in-obvious ... Ingredients to make replacements can be obtained in a week."

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Lucius's breakdown is excellent, but admittedly space intensive. For what it's worth, I find that when I create abilities that have several linked powers, it is usually easier to read if the linked powers are listed separately with some notation to indicate they are all part of a single ability. You can also put common Advantages and Limitations in a single block which make it a little cleaner. This is nice for reading on the character sheet, although you probably don't want to compute the cost this way.

 

Going out with a Bang: Sight Group Flash 1 ½d6 (standard effect: 2 Segments), Area Of Effect (16m Radius Explosion; ), Limited Power Not against someone who has their eyes closed or turned away that phase

plus Darkness to Sight Group 2m radius, Linked (Flash! Bang!; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value), Instant, No Range

plus Trigger Cost (as below) and Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible) for up to 5 Active Points of Leaping, Linked, Costs Endurance

plus +5 with Stealth

All Going out with a Bang powers have (as appropriate): Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; 2 Charges which Recover every 1 Week , No Range, Conditional Power Power does not work if wet (raining, Pipkin's been in water, etc) , IIF

 

This is a neat concept for a power, but why include the Darkness, especially since it is instant? If it hung around for a few segments or longer I could see including it, but as is it looks more like a sfx to me.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Lucius's breakdown is excellent' date=' but admittedly space intensive. For what it's worth, I find that when I create abilities that have several linked powers, it is usually easier to read if the linked powers are listed separately with some notation to indicate they are all part of a single ability. You can also put common Advantages and Limitations in a single block which make it a little cleaner. This is nice for reading on the character sheet, although you probably don't want to compute the cost this way.[/quote']

Since I mostly write such stuff per hand, there is usually a "common limitation" on the powers. A placeholder for 2-3 Limitations that get detailed below.

For Multipowers/VPP's with limitaitons that affect all slot there is the "Multipower Limitations" or "All Slot Limitation" stated as one value per slot.

Also taking 2-3 Limitations that might not be worth much on their own and lumping them together in one might give you a -1/4 Limitation when eaach on it's own would be -0.

 

Of course i have no idea how well that works with the Hero-Designer...

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Christopher: that's a great idea, and I used to do that too when doing things by hand. I think I can do something similar in Hero Designer for a Compound Power, but it would still just automatically write out the Limitations for each constituent - I think. I should try.

 

one can also always use the "Custom Modifier" to make up "Common Advantages" and "Common Limitations."

 

It would also mean that the impression people get when they read the character sheet is of cool stuff rather than theoretical physics...

 

Some of us think theoretical physics IS cool stuff, but your point is 100% valid.

 

The architecture is necessary but not in most gameplay situations...

 

Until an Adjustment Power or the like is used.....if a Fantasy Game features a lot of Dispel for example, all spells will need to be written up with Active Points.

 

I think a character sheet with a "plain English" explanation next to each ability (well' date=' each one that isn't self-explanatory, like "IR vision" or "power defense") would be a good idea. [/quote']

 

Power Defense is not self explanatory. Something like "This is your resistance to having your abilities Drained or Dispelled, or your character as a whole Transformed into something else" would be needed for a totally new player.

 

"This power blinds people for a couple seconds, leaving a 16 m radius cloud of smoke that lingers for one turn, enabling the user to sneak or leap away without being detected--it can be set to go off on a particular trigger, and may be used twice a day--it uses small, inobvious containers which do not resemble grenades"--a little better. Throw in a few more explanations, i think it could still be about half as long.

 

Obviously I'm not explaining as well as I thought. It does not leave a 16 meter cloud of smoke, only a 2 meter cloud. It is not set off an a particular trigger - it uses the "reflex action" option where the character decides to set it off. And it may be used twice a week, not twice a day.

 

You can also put common Advantages and Limitations in a single block which make it a little cleaner. This is nice for reading on the character sheet' date=' although you probably don't want to compute the cost this way.[/quote']

 

Good advice.

 

This is a neat concept for a power, but why include the Darkness, especially since it is instant? If it hung around for a few segments or longer I could see including it, but as is it looks more like a sfx to me.

 

I could be in error, but my impression of "Instant" is that it lasts for a phase, not just a segment. Then again given it's on Charges and not Continuing Charges maybe my real error here is taking an illegitimate Limitation...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Asking the palindromedary to explain itself

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

From HD, not the rule book, but:

This Limitation turns a Constant Power into an Instant Power. It only remains in effect for, at most, the Phase it was turned on.

I think the problem is your understanding of a Phase. A Phase is just a Segment you have an action on. It is not the space/Segments until your next Phase.

 

Also, you said he could use this Power any time, not just on his Phase. This is incorrect. The Trigger requires a Zero Phase action, which still has to be on your Phase when you could take an action. If you want him to be able to do it anytime it would need "Activating the Trigger is an Action that take no time". The way you have it built he could probably Abort claiming it is a defensive action, but that would still burn his next Phase and rather defeat the point of the Trigger.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

From HD, not the rule book, but:

 

I think the problem is your understanding of a Phase. A Phase is just a Segment you have an action on. It is not the space/Segments until your next Phase.

 

If you have SPD 4, and Running 6 m, and are running flat out, you do not

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

etc.

 

Your actions are RESOLVED on segments 3, 6, 9, and 12, but that does not mean you're standing there twiddling your thumbs betweentimes. Or would you argue that if my SPD 4 character had an Uncontrolled Area Effect Attack, it's safe for someone to run through the area if they do so on segments 1,2,4,5,7,8,9 or 10?

 

In any case, if I were to rework the Power, I'd drop the Instant. Each Charge only lasts a phase anyway.

 

edit: or possibly drop the Darkness Power entirely and say that a cloud of smoke is the explanation for the Invisible Power Effects on Leap.

 

Also' date=' you said he could use this Power any time, not just on his Phase. This is incorrect. The Trigger requires a Zero Phase action, which still has to be on your Phase when you could take an action. If you want him to be able to do it anytime it would need "Activating the Trigger is an Action that take [i']no time[/i]". The way you have it built he could probably Abort claiming it is a defensive action, but that would still burn his next Phase and rather defeat the point of the Trigger.

 

You are 100% correct here. I should have built the Triggers as "Takes no Time."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

You guys are better at finding my mistakes than a palindromedary

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Christopher: that's a great idea' date=' and I used to do that too when doing things by hand. I think I can do something similar in Hero Designer for a Compound Power, but it would still just automatically write out the Limitations for each constituent - I think. I should try.[/quote']

 

Well, if you put the powers in a List or MP...

 

Then go to Preferences.

 

Uncheck "Show Common Limitations in Slots on Lists/Frameworks"

 

No it only displays common limitations and advantages at the top of the MP or List.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

If you have SPD 4, and Running 6 m, and are running flat out, you do not

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

etc.

 

I have not seen Steve pronounce on this but this was the official line under previous management. all movement was counted on the segment acted on.

 

So character A (Spd 2, running 50m) is chasing character B (Spd 5, running 20m) who has a 5m head start.

 

On segment 3, character B is 25m ahead

 

On segment 5, character B is 45m ahead

 

On segment 6, character A catches character B

 

I didn't like it or play that way then, but it was rules as written then...

 

Doc

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Well, if you put the powers in a List or MP...

 

Then go to Preferences.

 

Uncheck "Show Common Limitations in Slots on Lists/Frameworks"

 

Now it only displays common limitations and advantages at the top of the MP or List.

 

Thank you. I didn't expect to learn so much from this thread!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

pensive palindromedary

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Than you. I didn't expect to learn so much from this thread!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

pensive palindromedary

 

Thank you for starting this thread.

 

I like creating complicated builds as much as anybody but they are sometimes hard to explain without good breakdowns like your examples.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

If you have SPD 4, and Running 6 m, and are running flat out, you do not

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

etc.

 

Your actions are RESOLVED on segments 3, 6, 9, and 12, but that does not mean you're standing there twiddling your thumbs betweentimes. Or would you argue that if my SPD 4 character had an Uncontrolled Area Effect Attack, it's safe for someone to run through the area if they do so on segments 1,2,4,5,7,8,9 or 10?

 

In any case, if I were to rework the Power, I'd drop the Instant. Each Charge only lasts a phase anyway.

 

The "Stop Motion" impression of Hero System combat is one of the most difficult mental hurdles to get passed, IME. Our group still hasn't fully wrapped our heads around it after years.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

For contrast, here is a simple power from the same character.

 

 

2 5) Rabbit Ears: +2 PER with Normal Hearing 0

 

 

Again, "2" is the Real Cost. "5)" designates a place in a list, in this case, the list is Anthropomorphic Rabbit and includes powers fitting the rabbit theme, such as running, jumping, and listening. If the power were not part of a list, this number obviously wouldn't be there. "Rabbit Ears" names the power (the character's ability,) and "+2 PER with Normal Hearing" names the Power (the game element Power that defines the ability in game terms.) "0" is the END cost.

 

If one wanted to make it more complex, perhaps the Limitation Percievable is justified, as anyone seeing those ears can guess they go with excellent hearing.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary proposes another new thread: Complicate the Power Above

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

If you have SPD 4, and Running 6 m, and are running flat out, you do not

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

Stand stock still for 3 seconds

 

Run 6 meters in 1 second

 

etc.

 

Your actions are RESOLVED on segments 3, 6, 9, and 12, but that does not mean you're standing there twiddling your thumbs betweentimes. Or would you argue that if my SPD 4 character had an Uncontrolled Area Effect Attack, it's safe for someone to run through the area if they do so on segments 1,2,4,5,7,8,9 or 10?

 

In any case, if I were to rework the Power, I'd drop the Instant. Each Charge only lasts a phase anyway.

 

edit: or possibly drop the Darkness Power entirely and say that a cloud of smoke is the explanation for the Invisible Power Effects on Leap.

Constant Powers combined with AoE are a little different and how they work is discussed in the rules. That has nothing to do with the fact that your Phase does not continue into subsequent Segments. Obviously I am not arguing that characters move in "stop-motion" and I said nothing to remotely suggest any such thing. It is treated that way in the rules because thy have to draw lines somewhere to deal with "when" things happen.

That being said:

1) Movement Powers are not Instant.

2) Uncontrolled makes the damage seperate from the character, and thus, seperate from their Phases on the Speed Chart. That's the whole point.

3) Regular Constant Attacks (like Blast with the Constant Advantage for example) do only cause damage on the characters Phase, not every Segment between. (Someone entering a Constant AoE may be an exception, but after the initial damage they still only take damage on the attacker's Phases.

4) Arguing about how to handle "when" things happen "realistically" compared to the static nature of the Speed Chart really has nothing to do with what, per the rules, is a Phase. A Phase is a single Segment. And an Instant Power takes effect and ends (unless there is some other mechanic involved like Constant, Extra Time, Whatever) in that Phase/Segment.

 

All that being said, like I mentioned up-thread, I love the power you built and the explanation. Very useful. Oh, and Repped.

 

EDIT: Dangit, must spread Rep...

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

The "Stop Motion" impression of Hero System combat is one of the most difficult mental hurdles to get passed' date=' IME. Our group still hasn't fully wrapped our heads around it after years.[/quote']

We have rules vor segment based movement, but they are (naturally) a little bit more complex.

 

A Phase is a single Segment. And an Instant Power takes effect and ends (unless there is some other mechanic involved like Constant' date=' Extra Time, Whatever) in that Phase/Segment.[/quote']

I disagree with that. A phase is the timeframe in wich you resolve a characters action.

Any segment can have dozen of Phases - one per character in combat time. And it is clearly defined that your phase (the one that counts for Instant duration) ends the moment you complete your second half-phase action, your full phase action or attack action.

There are some exceptions to that (for example deflection and reflection last for your entire block sequence).

 

Constant power duration:

I have to re-read the rules on them but the basic premise seems to be that each phase you can decided to fuel them for the time until your next phase. And that between your phases they can affect any single target only once.

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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Bizarrely timed soliloquies

 

"How I Learned Hero System"

By Juan Heavybrick

 

are

 

You can learn a lot from a villainous monologue.

 

He had me trapped, glued to the wall with that sticky goo he

uses, and he had to gloat. He told me I was DCV 0 and as his lackeys

leveled their weapons he told me their bonus for brace and set, and

about the skill levels built right into the guns with the focus

limitation, and I could tell he loved telling me about how their damage

stacked up to my defenses. I learned about the Armor Piercing Advantage

one of those blasters had, and the Hardened Advantage I didn't have.

This guy loved to hear himself talk. Before he'd even told me, I'd

figured out the monologue rule, how his big speech was essentially

taking up no time at all, occurring between the moment I got plastered

to the wall, and the moment his minions opened fire. He went from

character creation to how experience points were earned, which was a lot

less materiel then than it is now, but still a lot to pack into a

monologue. He wanted me to know all about this brilliant system of game

rules. And inevitably, he told me just a little too much.

 

Straining mightily, I tore myself loose and sure enough, they

could hardly miss at that range, especially the guy with Area Effect:

Cone. Each blast stung or staggered me, but I was too heavy for

Knockback to be an issue, and each roll of the dice told me I wasn't

Stunned yet. They weren't coordinating attacks, and it's only if two or

more of them hit at the exact same split segment that they get to add

damage for that. He gave me plenty of time to count hexes, so I knew

that before their next phase I could half-move a Leap and Grab him,

getting a bonus to my Presence Attack that made them all drop their

weapons.

 

"But...how?" he sputtered, "That Entangle was big enough even

your great STRength can't break it that fast!"

 

"Pushing" I grunted as I tightened my bearlike hold on him,

knowing my explanation would be the last thing he heard before slumping

unconscious, to awaken in a jail cell. "You told me I can push STR, and

I can push a Power, so I figured I could do both - push STR and Density

Increase at the same time. While you can still draw breath, tell your

guys to either give up or start making Full Moves away from here, 'cause

the cops weren't far behind me and you can hear them coming now if you

make a Perception Roll."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises

 

fun.
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Re: Dissecting Powers

 

Not to derail the thread or anything, but how is HERO more "stop motion" than any other game system? The stop motion effects might be more noticeable because HERO has SPD while most games (that I have played) just take turns back and forth. That makes HERO more granular so the "stop motion" effect may be more obvious, but it doesn't change the basic idea of "on my turn I move X distance." The only game I ever played that didn't work like that was Car Wars, but the nature of the game kind of demanded more careful accounting of movement.

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