Recovering Charges

[eepjr24]

Trying to model the following concept:

 

A character has a VPP of spells, all powers are bought with Charges (generally 1, but some continuing, some with clips). Would like to be able to pick a power whose charge(s) have been expended and recover the charge. Which ones they restore could vary, there would be charges on this "recovery" power as well. I have 3 ideas for how to do this and wanted to check legality or preference within the rules.

 

1. Treat as per naked advantages, with the cost being the largest difference between the cost of the power as it is created and the cost of the power one step down the Charges table. Example: Largest power in VPP is 30 AP 7 RP (-2 for charges, -1 for other lims). Built with 2 Charges would cost 8 RP, so buy back cost is 1. 

2. Aid. Since it would not change the pool cost, could you buy an Aid to any 1 VPP power with the appropriate modifiers (reduced fade rate, etc).

3. Buy the VPP powers with more charges and then partially limit the limitation???

 

None of these seem very elegant, I am hoping there is a cleaner simpler way to do this that I am just not seeing.

 

- Ernie

[Steve Long]

First -- sorry I moved this without leaving a note in the Rules Questions forum. Forgot to click the little box. 

 

My answers:

 

1. Since you can actually recover the ability to use a spell, it probably shouldn't have the Limitation Charges at all. Or if it does, it should have Recoverable Charges (6E1 372), which would probably resolve your issue. Just work out a way with the GM for your character to recover used spells that he finds acceptable, and you're set.

 

2. Alternately, ditch Charges and create a custom Limitation (with the GM's help, of course). Something like "Cannot Use Spell More Than Once Unless He [Does So-and-So]," with the value of course being much less than 1 Charge. That seems a bit cheesy and I'm not sure I'd allow it in my own games, but not all campaigns and GMs are the same.

 

3. This really sounds more like an issue of magic system design than power construction. Assuming this character is part of a setting that has a magic system at all, the rules for the system itself could allow for "spell recovery" without that needing to be built into each spell. (Or, the system could specify how to build it into a spell.)

 

Hope that helps. Herophiles -- what ideas do you have?

[eepjr24]

I guess of those options recoverable charges, making it part of the magic system or some combination of the 2 makes most sense. I don't like the custom limitation idea, really.

 

This particular system has a few different magic systems and at least 2 of them have a limited method for recovering some charges (generally only a couple and generally only lower AP spells). So maybe just an advantage on the MP or VPP for those classes and a write up in the magic system description will suffice. 

 

- E

[bigdamnhero]

Interesting idea. Could you get away with Recovers Under Limited Circumstances? Maybe worth +1/4 or +1/2, or even +0 depending on how easy/frequent the recovery is?

[eepjr24]

That is pretty much what I am thinking now, +1/4 on the MP or VPP "Charges recover under very limited circumstances". It varies what they are, for instance if you are a Divination Specialist and you cast a 3rd (45 AP) level Divination school spell, you get back 1 charge on a 1st (15 AP) or 2nd (30 AP) level spell. A different class (more of a wild magic type) gets spell points that they can use once a day. At lower levels they would let you gain back one charge of a 15 AP spell or double the range of a spell or make a no range spell limited range for instance. Very, very cheap effects, real cost wise, but they add nice flavor. Sometimes they end up being a little pricey from an AP standpoint though, which makes just throwing another VPP into the mix of dubious use. these are 75+50 type fantasy characters, so having a 35 point VPP is already pushing it.

 

- E

[eepjr24]

I was not intentionally vague on the system, it is a rough shod conversion of D&D 5e sword coast to Hero 6th. I was trying to be generic so folks don't get too caught up in the setting.

 

- E

[Chris Goodwin]

I like to play around with things like Differing Modifiers to represent this.  Build a Power that represents the spell as it is cast; give that Power one charge.  I'd say make it a Recoverable charge because of the prep.  Build another Power using the Differing Modifiers rules that represents the prep for the first Power.  For instance:
 
Fireball:  Blast, 8d6 (vs. ED).  40 Base Points.  AoE Radius (8m; +1/2).  60 Active Points.  IAF (guano and sulfur; -1/2), Gestures (both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4); 1 Charge (Recoverable, -1 1/4).  17 Real Points.  
 
Now, you don't charge points for the Fireball.  Instead, you use the Fireball as the basis for your Differing Modifiers: 
 
Prep Fireball:  Fireball. 17 Base Points.  Differing Modifiers (+1/4).  21 Active Points.  Extra Time (20 minutes; -2 1/2), OAF (spell book; -1), Must Be Well Rested (-1/2).  4 Real Points. 
 
When you "activate" the Prep Fireball power, it grants you one use of the Fireball.  Once you've used it, you need to prepare Fireball again by being well rested and reading your spell book for 20 minutes.  
 
The Differing Modifiers is given a minimum value of +1/4 to match the requirements under Usable On Others, even though you're not granting it to anyone and it's not technically UOO.  I'd recommend reading up on the Differing Modifiers rules in both 6e1 (or 5ER if that's what you're using) and the full Fantasy Hero book; you're effectively creating a "magic item" that isn't really an item.

[Narf the Mouse]

I guess of those options recoverable charges, making it part of the magic system or some combination of the 2 makes most sense. I don't like the custom limitation idea, really.

 

This particular system has a few different magic systems and at least 2 of them have a limited method for recovering some charges (generally only a couple and generally only lower AP spells). So maybe just an advantage on the MP or VPP for those classes and a write up in the magic system description will suffice. 

 

- E

Why not just build those lower-AP spells with Recoverable Charges?

[Christopher R Taylor]

To be honest, I wouldn't allow this.  I get the concept, but what you're doing is building in a limitation that lowers cost considerably, then finding a way around that limitation with a power pool and I just don't like that at a gut level.