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Early editions: House rules?


Chris Goodwin

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For those who are still playing, or for those who are starting new early edition games (including any of the standalone games), what are some house rules you're using?

 

I'll start.

 

Modifier notation: I think everyone is using the +/- notation from later editions.  Me too, because I've spent 30 years getting used to it.

 

Naming Powers:  I think that this is a great idea, and I miss it when I'm looking at older write ups.  

 

Differing Modifiers:  It started in FH 1e with the Create effect.  I'll use it with Usable On Others, but also with Delayed Effect, possibly Trigger.  

 

No Independent:  I'm glad it went away in later editions.  

 

  @Duke Bushido?  I know you play 2e.  Anyone else?

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Chris:

 

I promise I will get back to you on this (I like named powers, too :)) when I'm more in my right mind. 

 

I logged on to spread some appologies for my behavior today; i have a problem this time of year, and I try to plow through instead of just letting it out, and gg

 

Anyway, I promise I will get back to you. 

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Self-Inflicted Damage: This is a rule I adapted from the original (pre-4th Ed.) HERO sourcebook, The Golden Age of Champions. As it stands now the HERO rules make no provision for someone striking a hard, unyielding object with a part of their bodies and injuring themselves, like punching a stone wall, which would often occur in real life. Strictly by the rules as currently written, a human being could eventually beat a car into scrap with his bare hand.  This rule is intended to create a more realistic situation for people who prefer that in their games.

Whenever a character strikes a "soft" target without Resistant Defense, like normal human flesh, he never takes damage from the attack himself. When a character strikes an object with Resistant Defense (which most inanimate objects have, and even some characters such as those wearing armor), he may suffer STUN and BODY damage up to the maximum rolled for the attack. The character's own applicable Defenses would reduce this damage. If using the optional Hit Location rules, the damage can be modified by the multipliers for the Hit Location of the body part you used to strike with.

If the Body damage the character rolls is higher than the Resistant Defense of the object,  and enough to destroy all of its remaining BODY after subtracting its DEF, or do Knockdown or Knockback to the target, the character suffers no damage from the attack himself.  If the character rolls more BODY Damage than the Resistant DEF of the target, but not enough to destroy all its remaining BODY, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he takes half the damage from the attack, reduced by his total applicable DEF. If the character doesn't roll more BODY Damage than the Resistant Defense, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he suffers the full damage himself, minus his total applicable Defense.

This is a useful rule to explain how trained martial artists can break boards, concrete blocks etc. without breaking their hands, feet etc.  It can also work as a weapon-breaker, with the damage being inflicted to the weapon a character strikes with, or a weapon used to block an incoming blow, instead of his own body.  It works for any object with Resistant Defenses, without the need to stat out a Damage Shield for every wall. It could also apply to that classic scenario of a normal person striking a superhuman with "skin of steel" and injuring his hand. As an optional rule for "normals" as opposed to supers, it helps distinguish the two in a superheroic campaign.

 

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Okay, Chris:

 

As promised, I'm going to give this a shot.  Problem is that I have a lot of them, and I don't want to type all that any more than anyone wants to read all that. :lol:

 

Like you, I'm a fan of "named powers."  I don't require it, but I do suggest it.  Usually mentioning that it helps to individualize your power from someone else's similar power, and that it can help you get a better feel for your  character does the trick. ;)  Sometimes, the player just has to get comfortable with the idea that this is, for our groups, "normal."

 

Also like you, i tend toward the +/- notations as well.  This, however, I adopted because I noticed it was easier for new players to grasp the Advantages / Limitations concepts when they viewed them as "distinctly" positive or negative.

 

But neither of those are rules, so let's move on:

 

First, because I feel I am in positively esteemed company, I use the "break it completely or break your hand" rule (I tend to name house rules, too, but mostly because it makes them easier for players to remember for those who don't think they need to write stuff down :lol: ) similar to LL above.  This came about when Street Fighter came to the Sega Genesis. Everyone remembers that bonus round, I know.  When players start discussing how much END or how many punches kicks, etc, it takes to break a Lexus, well...  you just try to head that off before it becomes an issue.  I admit that I tend to let it slide a bit when PCs are fighting villains in power armor, for dramatic reasons.  However, even then there is some downside for the bare-knuckled brawler without enough PD to absorb his own damage in that regard (it's just not much when they are actually fighting the bad guy.  Who wants to discourage that?! )  I have found this one also let's the energy projectors appreciate their value even in close-quarters combat.  But that's just a feeling, and could be completely wrong.

 

Your first player character cannot have electrical powers.  You're first villain cannot have electrical powers.

 

Yes; this a real house rule.  I have no stinking _clue_ how it happened, but we went through a period of lots of new players drifting in and out of the session during the 4e Renaissance,  and I swear to you, we and no less than six different people across a period of a year all create electrically-themed characters, and every one of them wanted to use the name "KillerWatt."  Was there a movie or something?  

 

And that brings us to the related house rule: No joke characters.  Seriously.  We've all done it at some point.  We've come up with a great pun or a comical theme, or whatever.  The problem comes up when you actually start to _like_ the way the character is shaping up.  You start taking him seriously, and wanting to do more with his development, etc.  But you gave him that one extra little power to create ladders from thin air and called him The Panty Raider.

 

No.  Just no.

 

Don't get me wrong: I don't run a grim and dark game.  I don't even run a hardcore game.  Hell, I don't run an _especially_ serious game, but it _is_ serious enough that we have believable (comic-book wise) stories, plots, and characters.  Sometimes, we might do a light-hearted and humorous game to break tension or before starting a new campaign.  Use your joke guy then.  Those have yet to go more than three sessions, and they're for blowing off steam anyway.  For the most part:  no joke characters.

 

Sit down at the table _knowing_ that you _want_ to be teamed up with the other players; your character _wants_ and _enjoys_, for whatever reason, the knowledge that his teammates can rely on him as much he is able to rely on them.  Leave that lone gun crap for the choose-your-own-adventure books.  This is a co-operative game, and if you don't want to cooperate, there's no reason for you to be here.

 

 

But these aren't really rules modifications, are they?  These are house rules, but they don't relate much to play.

 

Problem is I don't know which ones I've already discussed on the board. :lol:

 

There are no special vehicle rules.  You want a vehicle, you grab a character sheet and you build it.  If you don't want certain traits-- EGO, INT, etc,  (handy for computers, AI, the Ship who Sang, etc) you can sell them down to zero and spend the points elsewhere..  Size is emulated by Size Powers, mass by Mass Powers.  Movement is emulated with Movement Powers.  Defenses, etc: there is already a really great system for building anything, so we didn't see the need for special rules for vehicles when they came about.  As a result, when they came about, we ignored them.  We _did_ adapt the pricing though, for those characters who wanted to be assured that they wouldn't occasionally be deprived of them (for anyone else, it's still a big 'ol Focus, and since you're not paying points for it, it's not always handy).

 

This rule came about, honest-to-Pete, the third session we played Champions.  One of the characters had no movement powers of his own, and decided he wanted a motorcycle so that he could rush to the scene without being carried by the flying telekinetic.  There were....  no rules for building a motorcycle.  He, a people is a roughly motorcycle-sized.  Let's use one of those people sheets and see what happens.

 

Works great.

 

Team bases are a plot device, period.  There is too much obsession over them if the players use points to build them, and too much temptation on me to simply wring out a quick dungeon crawl on those nights when I've got little prepared. If your team wants a base, you got it: simple forensics lab; simple science labs appropriate to the skills on the team (plus 2 if you do your thing in your lab, plus more if you put some prep work and take your time), sleeping quarters, semi-private baths (two-rooms share the bath between them), conference room, lounging area, and a ping pong table for the speedsters to show off at.  One lonely spire high above the roof for the Batmunch clone to hang out on.  It's always dark there.  It can be anywhere you want, so long as it's accessible by every member of the team using whatever movement powers they have at their disposal.  It can look like whatever you want, too.  

 

This has worked out _way_ better for us in the long run, as people aren't obsessed about which points should go where, and who gets first crack and what, and who is going to hang back and guard the joint, etc, etc, etc.    No one has picked out furniture or designed a floor plan since we instituted this, and I couldn't be happier.

 

 

making a called shot (hit location charts are not used with supers, but periodically with heroic.  I try to discourage it, but when someone needs to snipe someone or something....).  If you make your roll, check the amount by which you made your shot.  That amount can be used as a negative modifier for any armor activation rolls, if your target is wearing armor with an activation.  

 

Called shots again:  If you missed your called shot, but your "to hit" roll would have succeeded as an uncalled shot, roll your location.  The difference by which you made the shot can be used to "walk" that shot that many steps up or down the chart to your selected location.  Sometimes you make it anyway.  

 

 

Killing Attack is not Stunning Attack  (name of house rule).  Killing Attacks have a default Stun Multiplier of 1.  You can buy it up to 2.  "real" guns, etc, are exceptions to this.  I let them go to a multiplier of 3.  After being presented an _extremely_ well-thought-out and well-researched argument many years ago, I also allow Killing Attack: Does not Stun.  Evidently, the perfect samurai sword was able to remove a limb without the opponent suffering any pain.  I didn't know that at the time.

 

Ego Defense (MD) and Presence Defense (FD) are base-zero characteristics.  It makes for a cleaner sheet, and it's easier for newer players to grasp than is ripping a characteristic in half and building it as a power.

 

T-port can take a -0 Limitation: only to transport between dimensions.  Dimensions are represented by Locations: ten fixed locations means ten dimensions.  Floating locations are allowable for this, but you must first have a fixed location somewhere in that dimension to represent your familiarity with said dimension.  "Mis-ports" can mean you go to a dimension you've never been to, or somewhere you've never been in a dimension you usually have access to anyway, or to the wrong fixed or floating location in your target dimension, depending on how badly you flubbed your roll.

 

 

Desolidification isn't Invulnerability.  Players are expected to define a reasonably common type of attack (special effects, usually) that will affect them, or a short list of unusual things that will affect them.  If it's appropriate, other things may effect them as well (I don't abuse this, and everyone is aware of it before they make a character with this power).   Mental powers will almost always affect Desolid characters.  However, there are some desolid SFX that aren't affected by mental powers, too.  Characters with Deslidification who have a vulnerability will suffer those attacks as normal while Desolid, unless their SFX makes it inappropriate.

 

Which leads to: SFX trump mechanics.  This is what I tend to call a 60/40 rule.  Regardless of raw mechanics (I am vibrating so fast I can pass through solid matter, which means I am invulnerable!  Fine.  Solid objects pass right through you.  KillerWatt is still going to stun the crap out of you, though, as is Professor Solar and his heat ray).  In the interest of fairness, and as a nod to the mechanics, I don't usually allow full damage, and almost never allow BODY against a Desolid character if the SFX is not of those he chose to affect his intangible self.

 

Does it depend on it, or is it linked to it?  

 

Linked caused some issued when later editions came out: Linked, for us, had always been a way to create a brand new power (and it was specified as such in the rules book).  Thus, when you used one power, you used the other, period.  After all, it was a single unified new power.

 

Then later editions featured "Linked" between two powers that did _not_ have to be used together.  That is, you could use one power by itself, but you could only use the second power if you were using the first power.

 

Then there were the weapon examples (machine gun with a grenade launcher, if I remember right-- and I probably don't) that could use either power by itself or both together.

 

Honestly, I think these could have been better handled as multipowers, so that's how I handled them, for a while.

 

Then we added "Dependent."  If you can use power 1 by itself, but can't use power 2 without power 1, then power 2 is Dependent on power 1.

 

If you can't use one without the other, you have a whole new and unique power (if you want to define it as such.  You can also say it's a machine gun with a flame thrower attachment; whatever) that you create with Linked.  

 

Equal portions.  To keep things easier on me, you, and the assigned "check man" (the guy who keeps us both in line), if both powers in a Linked are attacks, they must have equal DCs.  Thus, when you use it at "half power" or anything below full strength, there's a crap load less mathing and arguing about math.

 

Equal portions here, too.  If they are not both attack powers, then they must each cost equal END, and for the same math reasons.

 

 

Shot clock.

 

Yes; I actually use one.  Well, a stop watch.  Well, it was a stop watch; now it's an app.   I don't use this one when there are new players, and I don't use it in small groups, and i don't use it when we don't have a wide variation in SPD scores (unless we're in a large group).  There are nine players in my Brunswick group, so I use it there a _lot_.  When it's your "go" (Your phase, your dex), you have fifteen seconds to announce your moves, or your considered to be "surveying the scene" for options.

 

This has made combat _so_ much faster and easier.  I don't feel bad about it, either.  Fact is, the player has _plenty_ of time to study and do his tactics while everyone else is having their actions.  There is only one reason that he shouldn't be ready to announce his actions when it's his go, and that is a question for the GM.  If he has one, I will answer it, and then he has ten second.  If he has two questions, or five, he still gets ten seconds.  (Yes; that's less seconds, but rarely does the player not already know what he's going to do based on my answers).  

 

Monologues and PRE attacks: all you want, if there's four or less of you.  If there's five or more, you can get one on your go and one other during the Turn.  Continuing a PRE attack does not count against this, nor does continuing a monologue.  Other players will continue to act during your monologue.  Don't worry; in a well-disciplined group, I _can_ hear both of you.

 

There are many, many more, but I feel like I have fairly contributed to your thread.  If not, let me know, and I'll get some more up here.

 

Oh-- almost forgot.  I've recently been using Killer Shrike's idea of advancing Skills by assigning dedicated Eps for characters who roll "3" on a skill check, but I have modified it so that it has to occur and a particularly dramatic moment or on a particularly difficult Skill check.  I include here even though it's not a rule of my own devising, it's right that I acknowledge the use of someone else's idea, i think.

 

Good night, all.

 

 

Duke

 

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Duke let me speculate about Electricy sfx. For myself when I look down the sample sfx electricity jumps out at me as being fairly easy to come up with Powers. Now I’m getting better but I use to have a really a hard time coming up with character designs. And for the name well I use to have angst over coming up with new and clever names and or powers. I can see Killawatt being a clever/cool name. Just my 2 pennies.

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On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Anonther thought on Self inflicted, how much of a phy lim would say this is worth if writing up a Normal in a Supers game? I’m pondering myself. I really think there should be just a Normal Complication.

 

Susceptibility:  Striking something hard and failing to break or move it 3d6 damage Instant (Uncommon) 15

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Moving a palindromedary

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Well, let's see...

 

Quote

Self-Inflicted Damage: A character in CHAMPIONS can Push his Strength to do things like putting his hand through a wall. Regardless of whether the character succeeds, the character currently takes no damage. While this may be adequate for modern Heroes, the GAC brick, for the most part, is not that tough. By using the rule for Self-Inflicted Damage, if a character tries to break something, and doesn't succeed, he will take damage in return.

 

When a character attacks something with Resistant Defenses, figure the damage that the attack would do normally. If the attack causes more BODY than the Resistant Defense of the target (apply any Advantages such as Armor Piercing normally), the attacker takes no damage. However, if the character does not pierce the target's Resistant Defense, the attacker will take STUN and BODY, as if he had done a Move Through Maneuver - half damage. Any of the character's Defenses apply to this damage.

Studying the examples will give you a good idea of how this rule translates into actual combat. This change is very slight, and most characters won't take any damage when using this rule, unless the character enjoys fruitlessly punching on iron bulkheads. The GM, of course, can drop this rule when faster play is desired.

Example: Black Slasher (a Nisei Martial Artist) is surrounded by Ninja. He tries to escape by kicking his way through the wooden wall behind him. He lashes out and does a 9D6 kick, for 54 STUN and 16 BODY. He manages to kick through the wood (2 DEF and 2 BODY) easily, reducing the attack to 50 STUN and 12 BODY. Unfortunately, the Ninja had planned this trap well and have erected an Armored wall (13 DEF and 7 BODY) behind the wooden wall. The remainder of the Slasher's attack does not overcome the DEF of the wall, so he takes Self-Inflicted Damage of 25 STUN and 6 BODY. Subtracting his 5 PD from the damage, he takes 20 STUN and 1 BODY. The Ninja close in on the now stunned and hurt Hero. 

Remember, Self-Inflicted Damage can only happen when the target has RESISTANT DEFENSES .

 

 

So, it's used in GAC games, where bricks are considered "not as tough" as in later editions.  This looks like a "campaign switch"; in fact, I'd probably assume that bricks are the least likely characters to suffer from it, and in fact the character in the example that suffers from it is a martial artist.  

 

So, let's see.  The GM can set one of the following at campaign creation: 

  • No self-inflicted damage
  • The self-inflicted damage rule applies only to characters with no resistant DEF covering the hands
  • The self-inflicted damage rule applies only to "non-supers" 
  • The self-inflicted damage rule applies to everyone

I would say that a character could take Physical Limitation: Subject To Self-Inflicted Damage Rule, in games where the character would not otherwise suffer from self-inflicted damage, and I would probably also specify that normals (that is, normal humans that don't act as supers) always have the rule applied to them.  

Edited by Chris Goodwin
What the heck was up with that quote block?
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On 1/21/2019 at 6:28 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Duke let me speculate about Electricy sfx. For myself when I look down the sample sfx electricity jumps out at me as being fairly easy to come up with Powers. Now I’m getting better but I use to have a really a hard time coming up with character designs. And for the name well I use to have angst over coming up with new and clever names and or powers. I can see Killawatt being a clever/cool name. Just my 2 pennies.

 

You know, I was thinking on that earlier today.  And I actually can understand it, seeing as how many of my first characters were bricks or had fire-themed powers.  So it took me a couple of decades, but I realize know that had I thought about more, I likely would have understood it then, too. 

 

But that name?  Killer Watt?   Okay, fine:  othing wrong with the name, either.  Not the first time.  Actually kind of funny coincidence the second time.   But three or more, and you can't help but feel like you missed out on a joke somewhere. :lol:

 

On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Anonther thought on Self inflicted, how much of a phy lim would say this is worth if writing up a Normal in a Supers game? I’m pondering myself. I really think there should be just a Normal Complication.

 

 

I don't know; I've never considered it that way.  Honestly, in my games, it's just how the world works (since the home port of SF2, anyway).  If you can't get through the DEF with a blow, we'll that energy has to go somewhere.... 

Essentially, the idea is to prevent normal people (or even lightly-supered people) from punching anvils into pieces, one pip at a time, or poking their way through prison walls (take that, Joker!). 

 

I guess you could say in my usage of it (I can't speak for LL, of course) it's not even a limitation: it's a core definition of the universe. 

 

There are simple enough ways around it, and I let them slide for "having fun" reasons: a martial artist might have protective gloves to keep him from breaking his knuckles, or a short baton, or something like that (though breakable foci for that extra die or two of damage.... Well, this might break them). 

 

A bit of hardened PD or Resistant PD?  Cool.  You don't hurt yourself if you can't punch through it. 

 

And of course, this plays to granularizing bricks: either he is strong enough to punch a hole through a steel beam, or he isn't. 

 

I don't know (though I can still guarantee) if anyone here can lay hands on a Spiderman write up, but using the straight-up dealing damage rules as-presented, there's a good chance he can destroy through pummeling a number of things that don't make sense. 

 

I find this little rule evens that out a bit. 

 

Oh!  Sorry; I was rereading to make sure I hadn't screwed up my post, and noticed that I failed to mention  that in Supers games, I usually only apply this rule if someone wants to attack something that would qualify as resistant.  In heroic (and low level supers) , it's anything that could you could break your hand trying to punch through. 

 

If I were to consider it as a Disadvantage, though, (and I've been thinking on it while typing this), it would come down to one of two posibilities:

 

Either it would be a - 0 everyman limitation: every normal human (if I really wanted to push an extra gap between them and supers, that is. Otherwise, -_everyone_ takes it, and you buy it off using something like the examples I gave (so I guess this is exactly what I'm doing now :lol:) 

 

Or:

 

I allow either a very low Disadvantage or a 1/8 (oh yeah: another house rule: 1/8 power advantages and limitations.  They aren't handed out like candy, mind you: if I think it's a - 0 and you think it isn't, and you can present a compelling case (one built on reason as opposed to way-out-there individual examples, and I find your case reasonable, but still don't think it's worth much, (doesn't work under a full moon, for example, but your character - is- nocturnal) it might be allowed a 1/8.)

 

Sorry about that. 

 

As I was saying, I would think that doing it the other way: allowing it as a Disadvantage that a character can select or not opens another problem:

 

Right now, I don't think there is a GM in the world who would consider letting Neil Patrick Collins walk out of his 9-5 job at the accounting firm, walk over to his boss's car, and beat it into foil with his bare hands (and a lot of time). 

 

By defining this as a specific per-case Disadvantage is essentially allowing every normal who doesn't elect to take the Disadvantage catre Blanche to do exactly that:  flatten cars bare-handed.  And why not?  They didn't take the Limiation that says they can't. 

 

Depending on the nature of the campaign this may actually work out for you.   UT for most games, I would think that can of worms is best left sealed. :)

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15 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

 

Right now, I don't think there is a GM in the world who would consider letting Neil Patrick Collins walk out of his 9-5 job at the accounting firm, walk over to his boss's car, and beat it into foil with his bare hands (and a lot of time). 

 

 

At the risk of sounding ignorant, who is Neil Patrick Collins?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the palindromedary asks why he wants to foil his boss's car?

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Sorry, Luscius. 

 

I am on a touchscreen with an autocorrect that is beyond deranged. 

 

When originally typed, the initials "NPC" were in bold.  I was trying to get around having to delete and re-type Npc four time to get it to stay I all caps (what you see just then is what it does to all-caps: it un-caps everything but the first letter.  The only curw I have found is to retype it _four_ times, and it does get old. 

 

I had hoped using bold initials would escape its notice. :(

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On 1/20/2019 at 7:00 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Self-Inflicted Damage: This is a rule I adapted from the original (pre-4th Ed.) HERO sourcebook, The Golden Age of Champions. As it stands now the HERO rules make no provision for someone striking a hard, unyielding object with a part of their bodies and injuring themselves, like punching a stone wall, which would often occur in real life. Strictly by the rules as currently written, a human being could eventually beat a car into scrap with his bare hand.  This rule is intended to create a more realistic situation for people who prefer that in their games.

Whenever a character strikes a "soft" target without Resistant Defense, like normal human flesh, he never takes damage from the attack himself. When a character strikes an object with Resistant Defense (which most inanimate objects have, and even some characters such as those wearing armor), he may suffer STUN and BODY damage up to the maximum rolled for the attack. The character's own applicable Defenses would reduce this damage. If using the optional Hit Location rules, the damage can be modified by the multipliers for the Hit Location of the body part you used to strike with.

If the Body damage the character rolls is higher than the Resistant Defense of the object,  and enough to destroy all of its remaining BODY after subtracting its DEF, or do Knockdown or Knockback to the target, the character suffers no damage from the attack himself.  If the character rolls more BODY Damage than the Resistant DEF of the target, but not enough to destroy all its remaining BODY, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he takes half the damage from the attack, reduced by his total applicable DEF. If the character doesn't roll more BODY Damage than the Resistant Defense, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he suffers the full damage himself, minus his total applicable Defense.

This is a useful rule to explain how trained martial artists can break boards, concrete blocks etc. without breaking their hands, feet etc.  It can also work as a weapon-breaker, with the damage being inflicted to the weapon a character strikes with, or a weapon used to block an incoming blow, instead of his own body.  It works for any object with Resistant Defenses, without the need to stat out a Damage Shield for every wall. It could also apply to that classic scenario of a normal person striking a superhuman with "skin of steel" and injuring his hand. As an optional rule for "normals" as opposed to supers, it helps distinguish the two in a superheroic campaign.

 

Move through and Move by both have self inflicted damage
especially with Move through and you do no knockback to the target

 

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3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Sorry, Luscius. 

 

I am on a touchscreen with an autocorrect that is beyond deranged. 

 

When originally typed, the initials "NPC" were in bold.  I was trying to get around having to delete and re-type Npc four time to get it to stay I all caps (what you see just then is what it does to all-caps: it un-caps everything but the first letter.  The only curw I have found is to retype it _four_ times, and it does get old. 

 

I had hoped using bold initials would escape its notice. :(

 

I'm sorry I was too dense to see that Neil Patrick Collins was "NPC"

 

Your AutoInCorrect also botched my name, I see.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And just try getting them to spell "palindromedary" right....

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52 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I got rid of the decreasing rewards for similar disads almost immediately.

 

13 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 
Yeah the Decreasing  rewards thing was the reasons I moved so heavily into Package deals.

 

To me the decreasing returns were what made the Disadvantages worthwhile.  You have a reason to not always hit the campaign maximum, and in fact the "maximum" in those days was usually a range.  

 

Without them, you're pretty much always guaranteed to hit your 50 points per category, 150 max points worth of Disads; every player character I've ever seen, always always always, without exception, under 4th through 6th editions always takes the maximum needed.  There's no reason not to, because you're leaving money on the table if you don't.  

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